Need Help in selecting Audio for Swift

mclaren1885 · 29th October 2005, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

McL, there are people in my family (because of heritage) and People in navin's family (because of taste) that would issue a death warrant for making a statement like that.

im sure u would know better

..so how about enlightening us on preffered music by the italians..

Sam Kapasi · 29th October 2005, 15:25

Well for starters... Opera... Indians think opera is a house in Mumbai.

RobertClive · 29th October 2005, 23:03

All the facts about allowing your ears to judge is fine but how will I do it in Bangalore. If only I was in Mumbai, I could have taken Navins help.

I can do one thing. The kenwood amp that I saw was available from PFM (Deepak Asrani, if you see this post, I need your help). I can ask them for a trial of kenwood or alpine before choosing.

About the technical stuff, I need some time for understanding. Will get you back with more questions. Navin, be prepared.

I just love this forum

navin · 31st October 2005, 12:37

I think Mclaren is comparing the traditional Carnatic music of the south to Italian Opera.

gunbir · 31st October 2005, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

I think Mclaren is comparing the traditional Carnatic music of the south to Italian Opera.

Heheh... I think McLaren is into 'Car'natic music for sure. To generalise that all Italians listen to opera is similar to generalising that all of South India listens to carnatic music or all North Indians listen to Bhangra.

Italians listen to a variety of music... from their own breed of Pop, opera to English Chart hits from US and Europe. Why... a couple of years ago, Panajabi MC's "Mundian To Bach Ke..." topped the Italian charts for a few weeks. They even released a special CD single with remixed editions from mainstream Italian DJs. Imagine that... a bhangra track being No. 1 there for weeks.

BTW Italians have similar listening tastes to ours, in that they generally prefer their vocals upfront. Apart from that I guess you cant really generalise it.

navin · 2nd November 2005, 10:45

Gunbir, the reason the Italians and Indians prefer their vocals up front (this devels into the subconcious) is becuase our classical music has a similar backgrond. Pop *******ises all music regardless if it is Italian or Indian.

Atleast 3 chord Rock has attitude. I dont think Brittney Spears has attitude.

I am not an expert on the forms of Indian Folk and Classical music but what little i have heard of Indian Carnatic and even old Punjabi folk (Bhangra) there is the same emphasis on vocals and spirit as Greek and Italian music.

Germans for example prefer to let their instrument sing.

RobertClive · 3rd November 2005, 11:04

Question about slew rate:

The slew rate as I understand is the rate at which the amp can change its voltage to keep up with the input signal.

Does increase in gain and volume anything to do with slew rate ie, will increased amplification affect the slew rate (to my understanding, yes. But want to hear from the gurus).

Most amps does not specify maximum slew rate in their specifications. For good amplifier, what would be recomended slew rate (if slew rate depends on amplification, then it would be slew rate required at particular wattage).

Also, is there any measurement that reflects the dynamic capability of the amp. I understand, the dynamic capability is a combination of amps characteristics and the speakers characteristics. But I find no measurement that reflect this.

Will buying overrated amp help in any way. If i figure that all I am going to need is 30W rms per channel maximum, then will buying a 60W per channel amp improve dynamic capability and give more head room and better slew rate at say 30W rms output by reducing the gain.

Autophile · 3rd November 2005, 12:40

Dont consider much of parameters like slew rates or damping factors. Generally people think that higher the value the better the amplifier is. Though these parameters are good for measuring equipment. They have very little effect on the musicality of the amplifier.

So look for better quality componenents, Higher S/N Ration and channel seperation, build quality in an amplifier.

Sam Kapasi · 3rd November 2005, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autophile

Dont consider much of parameters like slew rates or damping factors. Generally people think that higher the value the better the amplifier is. Though these parameters are good for measuring equipment. They have very little effect on the musicality of the amplifier.

So look for better quality componenents, Higher S/N Ration and channel seperation, build quality in an amplifier.

.

RobertClive · 3rd November 2005, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autophile

Dont consider much of parameters like slew rates or damping factors. Generally people think that higher the value the better the amplifier is. Though these parameters are good for measuring equipment. They have very little effect on the musicality of the amplifier.

So look for better quality componenents, Higher S/N Ration and channel seperation, build quality in an amplifier.

I agree too. This is just for my learning.

Anyways, I am buying kenwood KAC-8542 if available within this week.

One more question - Most amps sold in US has a rating for input voltage of 14.4V. I guess in India, the input voltage is 12V. Am I correct? Or does the voltage change when the alternator is running?

RobertClive · 3rd November 2005, 15:02

Is there any noticible difference between -12db/octave, -18db/octave and -24db/octave for LPF?

mclaren1885 · 3rd November 2005, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertClive

I agree too. This is just for my learning.

Anyways, I am buying kenwood KAC-8542 if available within this week.

One more question - Most amps sold in US has a rating for input voltage of 14.4V. I guess in India, the input voltage is 12V. Am I correct? Or does the voltage change when the alternator is running?

well as an answer to ur last part when the car is off the the amp is getting a supply of 11.7-12 V from the battery which on cranking up the engine varies from 13.6-14.4V depending on whether ur headlights are on and other such parameters..so u can consider ur amp ratings at 14.4V only as u invariably get close to that mark once the engine is cranked..

Sam Kapasi · 3rd November 2005, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertClive

One more question - Most amps sold in US has a rating for input voltage of 14.4V. I guess in India, the input voltage is 12V. Am I correct? Or does the voltage change when the alternator is running?

It is a commercial gimmick. You see, an amplifier will give more power at 14.4V. The highest voltage that can be achieved in a car COULD be upto 14.4V. However as McL said, normal running voltage for a car with the AC on and headlights etc its around 12.5-13.5V tops. Standstill is 12V and idle is normally 12 to12.5V
You see if they give the 12V figures, it will be lower than the 14.4V figures. Meaning , For example, if an amplifier is 45W at 14.4V, i would expect it to be around 40W at 12V. Obviously it is easier to sell at 45W.
This is not a USA thing, it happens all around the world with car amplifiers. Very few companies actually give you 12V ratings.

RobertClive · 3rd November 2005, 23:05

I read quite few installations (not in this forum) where people use both the LPF in the HU and LPF in the amp. Accordingly, it improves the SQ since slope of subwoofer cutoff frequency is very steep. Have any of you guys tried this?

Will this lead to any kind of phase shift. To my knowledge, even -18db/octave will lead to a phase shift that cannot be compensated at all. Either -12db/octave or -24db/octave would be a good choice since it would be a multiple of 180 degree phase shift.

What say gurus?

navin · 4th November 2005, 10:49

No one suggested S/N, Slew rate, etc.. determines the quality of the amplifer. I have heard good amps with a SR of 2V/us and bad amps with a slew rate of 100V/us. Again I must add that I did not measure the dlew rate in either case (they were manufacturer specs).

In any case, Robert, the sad fact is that most specs are not complete and in any case even really comphrehensive specs can only spec if the amplifer was well made not how good it sounds.

Unfortunately you have to use your ears! Trust them and you will be rewarded.

29th October 2005, 15:25	#122
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,378 Times View My Garage	Well for starters... Opera... Indians think opera is a house in Mumbai.
	() Thanks

29th October 2005, 23:03	#123
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	All the facts about allowing your ears to judge is fine but how will I do it in Bangalore. If only I was in Mumbai, I could have taken Navins help. I can do one thing. The kenwood amp that I saw was available from PFM (Deepak Asrani, if you see this post, I need your help). I can ask them for a trial of kenwood or alpine before choosing. About the technical stuff, I need some time for understanding. Will get you back with more questions. Navin, be prepared. I just love this forum
	() Thanks

31st October 2005, 12:37	#124
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,199 Thanked: 9,306 Times	I think Mclaren is comparing the traditional Carnatic music of the south to Italian Opera.
	() Thanks

2nd November 2005, 10:45	#126
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,199 Thanked: 9,306 Times	Gunbir, the reason the Italians and Indians prefer their vocals up front (this devels into the subconcious) is becuase our classical music has a similar backgrond. Pop *******ises all music regardless if it is Italian or Indian. Atleast 3 chord Rock has attitude. I dont think Brittney Spears has attitude. I am not an expert on the forms of Indian Folk and Classical music but what little i have heard of Indian Carnatic and even old Punjabi folk (Bhangra) there is the same emphasis on vocals and spirit as Greek and Italian music. Germans for example prefer to let their instrument sing.
	() Thanks

3rd November 2005, 11:04	#127
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	Question about slew rate: The slew rate as I understand is the rate at which the amp can change its voltage to keep up with the input signal. Does increase in gain and volume anything to do with slew rate ie, will increased amplification affect the slew rate (to my understanding, yes. But want to hear from the gurus). Most amps does not specify maximum slew rate in their specifications. For good amplifier, what would be recomended slew rate (if slew rate depends on amplification, then it would be slew rate required at particular wattage). Also, is there any measurement that reflects the dynamic capability of the amp. I understand, the dynamic capability is a combination of amps characteristics and the speakers characteristics. But I find no measurement that reflect this. Will buying overrated amp help in any way. If i figure that all I am going to need is 30W rms per channel maximum, then will buying a 60W per channel amp improve dynamic capability and give more head room and better slew rate at say 30W rms output by reducing the gain.
	() Thanks

3rd November 2005, 12:40	#128
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	Dont consider much of parameters like slew rates or damping factors. Generally people think that higher the value the better the amplifier is. Though these parameters are good for measuring equipment. They have very little effect on the musicality of the amplifier. So look for better quality componenents, Higher S/N Ration and channel seperation, build quality in an amplifier.
	() Thanks

3rd November 2005, 15:02	#131
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	Is there any noticible difference between -12db/octave, -18db/octave and -24db/octave for LPF?
	() Thanks

3rd November 2005, 23:05	#134
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	I read quite few installations (not in this forum) where people use both the LPF in the HU and LPF in the amp. Accordingly, it improves the SQ since slope of subwoofer cutoff frequency is very steep. Have any of you guys tried this? Will this lead to any kind of phase shift. To my knowledge, even -18db/octave will lead to a phase shift that cannot be compensated at all. Either -12db/octave or -24db/octave would be a good choice since it would be a multiple of 180 degree phase shift. What say gurus?
	() Thanks

4th November 2005, 10:49	#135
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,199 Thanked: 9,306 Times	No one suggested S/N, Slew rate, etc.. determines the quality of the amplifer. I have heard good amps with a SR of 2V/us and bad amps with a slew rate of 100V/us. Again I must add that I did not measure the dlew rate in either case (they were manufacturer specs). In any case, Robert, the sad fact is that most specs are not complete and in any case even really comphrehensive specs can only spec if the amplifer was well made not how good it sounds. Unfortunately you have to use your ears! Trust them and you will be rewarded.
	() Thanks