Need Help in selecting Audio for Swift

RobertClive · 27th September 2005, 04:19

One more Rookie question about IB.

Shouldn't the sub be designed for free air installation to get decent effect in IB? And doesn't free air sub consumes more power than ported or vented installations? Somethings I read from net. I don't have any practical experience on these.

RobertClive · 27th September 2005, 04:26

How would you rate Sony 504 against say JBL or Blaupunkt GTA-470 amp?

Is is just power or some other thing against sony 504.

I am trying to cut cost to accomodate my system. I thought I would go for pioneer HU to do so but Navin has convinced me to go for Blau. So, now, I am trying my tricks on amp.

navin · 27th September 2005, 10:31

Robert,
1. If you prefer the Blau speakers get them. Remember you are building the system for your self not anyone else.

2. The infinity should be more laid back than the Blau.

3. If Mico can give you an answer about their S/N ratio I would consider an Blau/Sony/Blau system (in your case) with Blau HU and Blau speakers and a Sony amp. However since I found the Sony amp the Blau speakers bot a bit forward please check that combination before you buy.

aseem · 27th September 2005, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertClive

How would you rate Sony 504 against say JBL or Blaupunkt GTA-470 amp?

Is is just power or some other thing against sony 504.

I am trying to cut cost to accomodate my system. I thought I would go for pioneer HU to do so but Navin has convinced me to go for Blau. So, now, I am trying my tricks on amp.

The Blaupunkt GTA 470 has 200 watts RMS in bridged mode as opposed to the Sony which has 120 watts RMS.
The Blaupunkt has much better build and finish compared to the Sony 504. How much are you getting it for?
Autophile and Gunbir dont recommend the Blaupunkt, but Navin has GTA 450 in his wifes car, and he says its pretty good compared to the Sony 504.

There are other amplifiers in this price band:
JBL CS 50.4
Pioneer 6100

5u3zEr0 · 27th September 2005, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertClive

One more Rookie question about IB.

Shouldn't the sub be designed for free air installation to get decent effect in IB? And doesn't free air sub consumes more power than ported or vented installations? Somethings I read from net. I don't have any practical experience on these.

Yes, only subs which are designed to play in IB will sound the way they should when they are installed in IB. For eg. Pioneer makes subs like the earlier 303 series in "C" and "F" models, "C" standing for enclosed (boxed) installation and "F" for Free Air or IB installation.

No, Free air subs dont need more power than ported installations. Its the sealed installled subs which need the maximum power. Ported and vented are the same way of installing a sub in an enclosure. The other two are sealed and bandpass type.

The sealed enlcosure needs the highest power to play. Then comes the ported enclosure which needs medium power to play and then finally the bandpass enclosure which needs the least power. Free air doesnt need an enclosure at all as the entire dicky acts an enclosure by itself. In any of these enclosures the subs will sound different.

All subs are meant to be installed in a certain way which the manufacturer mentions on the manual. Hope I am clear.

Autophile · 27th September 2005, 14:42

The Subwoofers work in an IB Install. There are no problems with it.

Pioneer is the only manufacturer who distinguish between the subwoofers. So called Free Air and Sealed Box use.

navin · 27th September 2005, 14:46

JB, are there any SIGNIFICSANT differences in the T/S specs of the F anc C wofoers? Free air might have higher Qts.

Autophile · 28th September 2005, 11:24

There are differences in T/S between C & F subwoofers. Pioneer Free Air subwoofers have higher Qts and Vas than Sealed Subwoofers (not applicable with other manufacturers)

As a general guideline, Qts of 0.4 or below indicates driver is well suited to a vented enclosure. Qts between 0.4 and 0.7 indicates suitability for a sealed enclosure. Qts of 0.7 or above indicates suitability for free-air or infinite baffle applications. However, there are exceptions.

RobertClive · 1st October 2005, 01:38

How do people find this configuration -

(note: the prices are what I suspect it might be. Need to find the exact pricing though)

Alpine CDA 9847 HU - 9000
Alpine SPS-171A - 9500
Alpine SPS-170A coaxial in the rear - 5000
Blaupunkt amp - 9500
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Total - 31,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Alpine SPS speakers --- because they give good bass (from reviews in net. I haven't seen the speakers at all). This way, I can pospone my sub for couple of months. If the bass is good enough, I can save my boot space (which comes with a premium in Swift).

Also please let me know if the prices I mentioned are realistic and any good guys in Blr for alpine (other than PFM. They only carry high ends like R series).

With infinity speakers without sub, the sound feels very hollow in lower ends. I happened to hear only 5 1/4" components. 6 1/2" might be good.

I will any way have the audio system installed after the vahan yatraa in Blr. I can hear some installations and chose between them. I guess there are some displays for common people like me and just not for the enthusiast.

By the way, Navin, I called mico for on the 80db S/N for MP35 series HU. I talked with the technical and sales person. The technical person said he will call me back but he did not. The sales person called me twice to find out if I got the answer. Then he mentioned something vaguely that it is 92db S/N but he was not sure. Whatever, it seems like blaupunkt want to give better service. But I guess the technician in the showroom is pretty dumb. He was the one who said Velocity components will not fit Swift and he went on suggesting 61/2" tube subs. I heard a 10" tube in a Wagon-R and it was pretty bad. only boom-boom without any feel. Had it not been this forum, I might have gone with his suggestion (not exactly).

RobertClive · 1st October 2005, 01:47

I found some strange things about pricing. I am listing the pricing in CrutchField and indian price.

[CODE]Speakers CrutchField Indian
Infinity Reference 6010CS $199 9,500 (B&W)
Polk DB6500 $199 11,200 (From PFM I guess without B&W))
Alpine SPS 171A $199 10,500 (From CarTracks bkr without B&W)[/CODE]

Strange. I could get a Infinity Reference for Rs 9500 with B&W and for speakers of same price range, it cost much more without B&W.

Are Infinity speakers available in India manufactured in India?

(Is there any other way to post some kind of table like the one above?)

gunbir · 1st October 2005, 03:18

Hi...

The prices you were quoted for the Alpine SPS are wrong... call the official distributor and confirm the price... thats what one would pay for the Rtypes and the S should be around 6-7k with B&W.

navin · 1st October 2005, 11:04

i am not uptodate about prices but i will say this that atleast one manufacturer in India claims to manufacturer Infinity (Home AUdio) speakers in India.

see http://www.peerlessaudio.com/ not to be comfused wit Peerless Denmark (http://www.tymphany.com/products_Peerless.html)

Autophile · 1st October 2005, 11:08

Navin they also own Illusion Car Audio U.S.A. and make speakers for companies like PSB, JPW, Heybrook etc.

navin · 1st October 2005, 11:16

Give the man a dollar!

Autophile · 1st October 2005, 11:21

Navin...whom you are giving "the dollar" and for what????

27th September 2005, 04:19	#31
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	One more Rookie question about IB. Shouldn't the sub be designed for free air installation to get decent effect in IB? And doesn't free air sub consumes more power than ported or vented installations? Somethings I read from net. I don't have any practical experience on these.
	() Thanks

27th September 2005, 04:26	#32
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	How would you rate Sony 504 against say JBL or Blaupunkt GTA-470 amp? Is is just power or some other thing against sony 504. I am trying to cut cost to accomodate my system. I thought I would go for pioneer HU to do so but Navin has convinced me to go for Blau. So, now, I am trying my tricks on amp.
	() Thanks

27th September 2005, 10:31	#33
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,321 Thanked: 9,501 Times	Robert, 1. If you prefer the Blau speakers get them. Remember you are building the system for your self not anyone else. 2. The infinity should be more laid back than the Blau. 3. If Mico can give you an answer about their S/N ratio I would consider an Blau/Sony/Blau system (in your case) with Blau HU and Blau speakers and a Sony amp. However since I found the Sony amp the Blau speakers bot a bit forward please check that combination before you buy.
	() Thanks

27th September 2005, 14:42	#36
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	The Subwoofers work in an IB Install. There are no problems with it. Pioneer is the only manufacturer who distinguish between the subwoofers. So called Free Air and Sealed Box use.
	() Thanks

27th September 2005, 14:46	#37
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,321 Thanked: 9,501 Times	JB, are there any SIGNIFICSANT differences in the T/S specs of the F anc C wofoers? Free air might have higher Qts.
	() Thanks

28th September 2005, 11:24	#38
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	There are differences in T/S between C & F subwoofers. Pioneer Free Air subwoofers have higher Qts and Vas than Sealed Subwoofers (not applicable with other manufacturers) As a general guideline, Qts of 0.4 or below indicates driver is well suited to a vented enclosure. Qts between 0.4 and 0.7 indicates suitability for a sealed enclosure. Qts of 0.7 or above indicates suitability for free-air or infinite baffle applications. However, there are exceptions. Last edited by Autophile : 28th September 2005 at 11:25.
	() Thanks

1st October 2005, 01:38	#39
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	How do people find this configuration - (note: the prices are what I suspect it might be. Need to find the exact pricing though) Alpine CDA 9847 HU - 9000 Alpine SPS-171A - 9500 Alpine SPS-170A coaxial in the rear - 5000 Blaupunkt amp - 9500 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Total - 31,000 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Alpine SPS speakers --- because they give good bass (from reviews in net. I haven't seen the speakers at all). This way, I can pospone my sub for couple of months. If the bass is good enough, I can save my boot space (which comes with a premium in Swift). Also please let me know if the prices I mentioned are realistic and any good guys in Blr for alpine (other than PFM. They only carry high ends like R series). With infinity speakers without sub, the sound feels very hollow in lower ends. I happened to hear only 5 1/4" components. 6 1/2" might be good. I will any way have the audio system installed after the vahan yatraa in Blr. I can hear some installations and chose between them. I guess there are some displays for common people like me and just not for the enthusiast. By the way, Navin, I called mico for on the 80db S/N for MP35 series HU. I talked with the technical and sales person. The technical person said he will call me back but he did not. The sales person called me twice to find out if I got the answer. Then he mentioned something vaguely that it is 92db S/N but he was not sure. Whatever, it seems like blaupunkt want to give better service. But I guess the technician in the showroom is pretty dumb. He was the one who said Velocity components will not fit Swift and he went on suggesting 61/2" tube subs. I heard a 10" tube in a Wagon-R and it was pretty bad. only boom-boom without any feel. Had it not been this forum, I might have gone with his suggestion (not exactly). Last edited by RobertClive : 1st October 2005 at 01:49.
	() Thanks

1st October 2005, 01:47	#40
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	Strange??? I found some strange things about pricing. I am listing the pricing in CrutchField and indian price. [CODE]Speakers CrutchField Indian Infinity Reference 6010CS $199 9,500 (B&W) Polk DB6500 $199 11,200 (From PFM I guess without B&W)) Alpine SPS 171A $199 10,500 (From CarTracks bkr without B&W)[/CODE] Strange. I could get a Infinity Reference for Rs 9500 with B&W and for speakers of same price range, it cost much more without B&W. Are Infinity speakers available in India manufactured in India? (Is there any other way to post some kind of table like the one above?) Last edited by RobertClive : 1st October 2005 at 02:06.
	() Thanks

1st October 2005, 03:18	#41
gunbir Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,465 Thanked: 33 Times	Hi... The prices you were quoted for the Alpine SPS are wrong... call the official distributor and confirm the price... thats what one would pay for the Rtypes and the S should be around 6-7k with B&W.
	() Thanks

1st October 2005, 11:04	#42
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,321 Thanked: 9,501 Times	i am not uptodate about prices but i will say this that atleast one manufacturer in India claims to manufacturer Infinity (Home AUdio) speakers in India. see http://www.peerlessaudio.com/ not to be comfused wit Peerless Denmark (http://www.tymphany.com/products_Peerless.html)
	() Thanks

1st October 2005, 11:08	#43
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	Navin they also own Illusion Car Audio U.S.A. and make speakers for companies like PSB, JPW, Heybrook etc.
	() Thanks

1st October 2005, 11:16	#44
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,321 Thanked: 9,501 Times	Give the man a dollar!
	() Thanks

1st October 2005, 11:21	#45
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	Navin...whom you are giving "the dollar" and for what????
	() Thanks