[anu21v]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

another article
Can India Inc. face the truth about the Manesar violence? - Analysis - DNA

And I liked this video analysis by NDTV, Getting to listen from Workers and Unions alike, It is very much clear both are responsible for this mess.
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/tru...of-rage/240939

[ritz3645]

I stand by my earlier post on this topic.
copy paste of article with link

First of all, let’s begin with a game of call-a-spade-a-spade. When your profits go up by 2,200% over nine years (MSIL’s from 2001-02 to 2010-11), when your CEO’s pay goes up by 419% over four years (MSIL CEO’s from 2007-08 to 2010-11), when you get a 400% increase in productivity with just a 65% increase in your workforce (from 1992-2000), when your workers’ real wages increase by just 5.5% when the consumer price index rose by 50% (2007-11) (figures as reported by the researchers Prasenjit Bose and Sourindra Ghosh in The Hindu), when a worker can lose nearly half his salary for taking a couple of days leave in a month – you have a situation that free market economists are programmed not to register: extreme exploitation.

Link for further reading
Can India Inc. face the truth about the Manesar violence? - Analysis - DNA

[samarjitdhar]

Originally Posted by ritz3645

I stand by my earlier post on this topic.
copy paste of article with link

First of all, let’s begin with a game of call-a-spade-a-spade. When your profits go up by 2,200% over nine years (MSIL’s from 2001-02 to 2010-11), when your CEO’s pay goes up by 419% over four years (MSIL CEO’s from 2007-08 to 2010-11), when you get a 400% increase in productivity with just a 65% increase in your workforce (from 1992-2000), when your workers’ real wages increase by just 5.5% when the consumer price index rose by 50% (2007-11) (figures as reported by the researchers Prasenjit Bose and Sourindra Ghosh in The Hindu), when a worker can lose nearly half his salary for taking a couple of days leave in a month – you have a situation that free market economists are programmed not to register: extreme exploitation.

Link for further reading
Can India Inc. face the truth about the Manesar violence? - Analysis - DNA

Thanks for posting this here. Critics can be dismissive of the article as a pure communist plant or what not but here are some basic truths and I am quoting them from the article here.

At the heart of this whole mess is India Inc.’s love for contract labour. My research tells me that manufacturing cars is not a seasonal enterprise – it happens round the year; nor is assembling a car in a factory incidental to the making of a car – it is not like gardening or mopping the factory floor; nor is it something that can be done with a few dozen workers. According to the law of the land – the Contract Labour (Regulation and Abolition) Act, 1970, and Contract Labour (Regulation and Abolition) Central Rules, 1971, it is illegal to employ contract labour where “work is perennial and must go on from day to day”, “where the work is necessary for the work of the factory”, and “where the work is sufficient to employ considerable number of whole time workmen.”

So MSIL has indeed violated central labor laws. Would those who were supporting MSIL till now stand up and ask for action being taken against MSIL? Don't think so. Somewhere I feel it is a clash of two schools of economic thoughts and the one I am against but that cannot be named presents some nice sounding ideas couched with the appropriate amount of human concern but hardly practical or rational. In fact when I have challenged the proponents of this school of economics thought about specific policies they resort to sorcery.

The following quote from the same article in fact should be an eye opener.

Instead of shedding crocodile tears about the worsening ‘investment climate’, the oligarchs who make up Indian Inc. and their MBA underlings would do well to engage in some soul-searching. For a change, they can ask themselves: Should I continue to treat the Indian worker simply as a cost factor that has to be reduced to zero, or can I treat them with a little more respect, so that they too can live, and work, with dignity?

EDIT: And as a disclaimer, I too am a capitalist and not a communist. The only thing is I detest the grotesque and heartless form of capitalism practiced nowadays because the logic presented behind today's form of capitalism can actually be used to legitimize child labor and trading in blood diamonds.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

So MSIL has indeed violated central labor laws. Would those who were supporting MSIL till now stand up and ask for action being taken against MSIL?

At the heart of this whole mess is India Inc.’s love for contract labour. My research tells me that manufacturing cars is not a seasonal enterprise – it happens round the year; nor is assembling a car in a factory incidental to the making of a car – it is not like gardening or mopping the factory floor; nor is it something that can be done with a few dozen workers. According to the law of the land – the Contract Labour (Regulation and Abolition) Act, 1970, and Contract Labour (Regulation and Abolition) Central Rules, 1971, it is illegal to employ contract labour where “work is perennial and must go on from day to day”, “where the work is necessary for the work of the factory”, and “where the work is sufficient to employ considerable number of whole time workmen.”

Thats perfect! thats India's problem. Please read the bare act and you may (or may not) realise that this is not what the Act says. It basically gives the government a right to prohibit use of contract labour considering some factors (and there are other factors too) and it no way talks about contract labour under these conditions being illegal. So again what was the law you said Maruti is not complying with? Oh! Of course central labour laws, drafted by an author supporting murderers.

Instead of shedding crocodile tears about the worsening ‘investment climate’, the oligarchs who make up Indian Inc. and their MBA underlings would do well to engage in some soul-searching. For a change, they can ask themselves: Should I continue to treat the Indian worker simply as a cost factor that has to be reduced to zero, or can I treat them with a little more respect, so that they too can live, and work, with dignity?

Cost factor reduced to Zero? this is a extremist communist talking. Probably jealous of his MBA friends earning more! Disclaimer: No I'm not an MBA.

Who's saying, exploitation of workers doesn't happen in India? NO one! It is very common and very much worse than what the Maruti workers can imagine in their nightmares. But Maruti workers were not the ones who were being exploited, no not even the contract workers.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by SLK

Who's saying, exploitation of workers doesn't happen in India? NO one! It is very common and very much worse than what the Maruti workers can imagine in their nightmares. But Maruti workers were not the ones who were being exploited, no not even the contract workers.

What do you base your point on? Do you have some numbers that we can understand? Or do you have something to counter the numbers the author had put in his 2nd paragraph? Besides, just because someone somewhere is suffering more than you are, would you just ignore your own plight?

[samarjitdhar]

Originally Posted by SLK

it no way talks about contract labour under these conditions being illegal.

“work is perennial and must go on from day to day”, “where the work is necessary for the work of the factory”, and “where the work is sufficient to employ considerable number of whole time workmen.”

Are there any other conditions you are referring to which makes it legal to have contract labor? MSIL has a 6 month waiting period on average for the Swift even though work goes on perennially day in day out without breaks and the work is indeed sufficient to employ them whole time which the contract workers were. Only darn thing was that they were getting paid about one third. Good or bad, the law exists in the books which MSIL chose to ignore.

Originally Posted by SLK

So again what was the law you said Maruti is not complying with? Oh! Of course central labour laws, drafted by an author supporting murderers.

The central labor laws have been written to support murderers? Wow, thats a new one . Well there is a process for changing it and that is through the Parliament. Companies cannot start not abiding by it because they didn't feel like it and more importantly because it helps their bottom line.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

So MSIL has indeed violated central labor laws. Would those who were supporting MSIL till now stand up and ask for action being taken against MSIL? Don't think so. Somewhere I feel it is a clash of two schools of economic thoughts and the one I am against but that cannot be named presents some nice sounding ideas couched with the appropriate amount of human concern but hardly practical or rational. In fact when I have challenged the proponents of this school of economics thought about specific policies they resort to sorcery.

The following quote from the same article in fact should be an eye opener.



EDIT: And as a disclaimer, I too am a capitalist and not a communist. The only thing is I detest the grotesque and heartless form of capitalism practiced nowadays because the logic presented behind today's form of capitalism can actually be used to legitimize child labor and trading in blood diamonds.

All the article quotes are convenient quotes. Labour law and it's bye laws here in India are all made to favour the employer. Why target MSIL alone ? Do you think Hyundai or Honda are better off ? BTW, please look at our own selves, we employ maids, drivers, car cleaners etc etc looking for the cheapest salaries and getting the max out of their poor lazy souls. And when we give them a diwali gift worth 300 bucks, we feel satiated, yes we have done something nice for a poor family.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

Are there any other conditions you are referring to which makes it legal to have contract labor? MSIL has a 6 month waiting period on average for the Swift even though work goes on perennially day in day out without breaks and the work is indeed sufficient to employ them whole time which the contract workers were. Only darn thing was that they were getting paid about one third. Good or bad, the law exists in the books which MSIL chose to ignore.

Please read the law again! It is not illegal even if all these conditions are satisfied.

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

The central labor laws have been written to support murderers? Wow, thats a new one . Well there is a process for changing it and that is through the Parliament. Companies cannot start not abiding by it because they didn't feel like it and more importantly because it helps their bottom line.

NO! the author quoted some extracts from the Act, and claimed that this is what the act says is illegal. The fact is the act has been mis-quoted by the author deliberately and that is the act (the author's mis-quotes) which I claim to be constructed to support murderers.


I don't need to answer everything anyone writes here, because no one here has any facts at all, which say that Maruti was exploiting workers. Just because the the contract labourers get paid lower, that is exploitation? Reality check please! Please understand the dynamics of trade and business, and then we can talk, or just let it be, just kill everyone that who employs contract labour round the year.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by Gansan

^^Let them post the initial offer made by the management as well. Normally in wage negotiations the offer made by management will be laughably low; so the demand from the Union will be ridiculously high. The ultimate increase after signing may be around 25%.

Even 25% of that demand would amount to better pay scales than many of us Gan. Then what will you do ? Start another war ?

[samarjitdhar]

Originally Posted by SLK

I don't need to answer everything anyone writes here, because no one here has any facts at all, which say that Maruti was exploiting workers. Just because the the contract labourers get paid lower, that is exploitation? Reality check please! Please understand the dynamics of trade and business, and then we can talk, or just let it be, just kill everyone that who employs contract labour round the year.

Which part of labors on contract getting paid much lower than the permanent workers while doing the same work with equal amount of skills spending equal amount of time at work sounds fair to you? Are the needs of those contract workers way less than the permanent ones? Or are these workers doing some kind of a social service for MSIL? MSIL very well knows that maybe these contract workers didnt have more job options so they decided to pay them way lower than their permanent ones. Now doesnt that sound exploitation. Well its just not MSIL but most of corporate India seems to be blindly following this new grotesque version of capitalism from the West where instead of creating some sort of equitable opportunity for everybody the conditions are becoming such that the divide between the have-mores and the have-nots become gargantuan. But more importantly this brand of capitalism is actually trying to ensure that those who were not born so lucky should not even get the opportunity to rise up in life by making them survive on minimum subsistence. This kind of mentality works in the short term but in the long term creates a lot of discontent which sows the seeds of rebellion. So lets not kill all those companies who employ contract labor. Lets kill all those contract laborers who are not feeling too happy about their condition where they are forced to survive on the bare minimum and live a life without dignity and could be potential murderers. We have nipped the problem in the bud, isn't it.

[download2live]

Height of stupidity or the perfect example of Indian trait to bury the head in sand instead of tackling the problems staring at it head on?

Maruti Suzuki seeks help of astrologer to correct vaastu at Manesar plant - The Times of India

[sgiitk]

Maruti is taking a hard line but the politicos are up to their usual games
Maruti Suzuki may sack all workers involved in Manesar violence - The Economic Times

[djpeesh]

SFGate Business News — San Francisco Bay Area Business, Real Estate, Technology and Financial News & Small Business Resources


Maruti Suzuki Violence May Signal Broader India Labor Time Bomb

• By Siddharth Philip - Jul 31, 2012

July 31 (Bloomberg) -- Mukesh Kumar Yadav says he’s struggling with medical bills after he lost two toes in an accident this month at a Maruti Suzuki India Ltd. plant. He’s a contract worker who earns a fraction of a permanent employee and isn’t entitled to on-the-job injury compensation.
“We do not matter to them and they have no duty toward us,” said Yadav, who takes home about 7,000 rupees ($126) a month as a forklift driver at Maruti Suzuki’s Manesar plant. “Maruti just gets us to work and gives us money.”
While Yadav didn’t take part in the July 18 riot that shuttered the plant and led to the death of a manager, his story helps show why discontent was brewing among workers. Other carmakers should take note of worker complaints in the run-up to the violence at India’s largest carmaker because wage disparity is prevalent across the auto industry, said Ammar Master, an analyst at LMC Automotive.
“This combination of lower economic benefits and perceived inequality is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode at the slightest altercation,” said Master, who’s based in Bangkok. “This is going to be a problem for everybody unless they address the issues. If these labor issues are not addressed, it’s going to take away investors from India.”
Idled Factory
Police have been seeking to detain workers at Maruti’s idled Manesar factory, which according to the company’s website accounts for about 40 percent of total production capacity, since a brawl between an employee and supervisor escalated into a riot on July 18. That day, workers attacked managers, ransacked and set fire to company property, according to Maruti. Chairman R.C. Bhargava on July 21 declared a factory lockout pending the conclusion of a police probe, with outsiders and factory workers not being allowed inside the plant.
Permanent workers take home about 18,000 rupees a month, triple as much as a contract worker, according to seven workers interviewed by Bloomberg News.
Maruti Suzuki isn’t obliged to pay contract workers medical benefits because it hires a contractor to manage those workers, said S.Y. Siddiqui, head of human resources at New Delhi-based Maruti, declining to name the contractor. He also declined to comment on individual cases when asked about Yadav.
Siddiqui defended company policy, saying Maruti Suzuki pays more than 70 percent above minimum wage. When including meals and retirement provisions, the average cost for contract workers -- who account for about half of Maruti Suzuki’s workforce -- is about 12,000 rupees a month each, he said. For permanent employees, the cost starts at 12,500 rupees and rises to about 23,000 rupees in three years, he said.


More on the link

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Even 25% of that demand would amount to better pay scales than many of us Gan. Then what will you do ? Start another war ?

That post was just to present the other side of the coin; since only the demand by the Union was highlighted. I work in a mfg industry and know from years of observing up close how these negotiations go. I will start with a 100% demand and slowly come down; you will start with a 5% offer and gradually move up. The ultimate settlement will be around 20%. So there is no point in making a caricature of the workers' demands alone. That is misinformation by the media for MSIL!

[ritz3645]

let me put this plain and simple, swift D and dezire D waiting is because of black market people entering it to make a quick buck.

Inquire in any city and yes black car are available.

People sentiments were influenced buy this hype of so good that it has 6 month waiting.
I am not denying the fact that they are capable product, but like others.
Already people stopped inquiring of swift as who cares, waiting, this aint USSR.