[samarjitdhar]

Originally Posted by SLK

I hope you have seen large manufacturing facilities in 'India', specially where unions exist and assessed whether you can compare conditions there with Foxconn.

Believe me sir I have been brought up in an industrial township run by one of the largest private players in India. Working conditions were way worse off and inhuman with periodic worker deaths due to the hazardous nature of their jobs. And yes there were unions but there were absolutely no fireworks such as these.

Originally Posted by veyron_head

Empathizing with what drove the mob to this act or that their intent wasn't murder and it just happened etc , only goes to justify that act and more importantly dilutes the intensity of this crime. I would think so.

There are ways to make yourself heard in a civilized society. And lynching someone to death is not one of them.

Agreed 100%. But that doesn't rob anybody the right to discuss the context at all. Discussing cannot be equated to justifying the same and none of us are. Neither does it dilute the intensity of the crime. We are entitled to our own views, so let peace prevail .

[ramzsys]

Our own high-brows of the civilian society defend the naxals by bringing up every issue of governance that had caused the internal terrorism in the first place.

If those discussions(which always includes 'condemning' the 'deplorable' acts) can be considered as a legitimate discussion in a civilian society, then why not go into the discussion about what motivated the Maruti employees to do such a crime?

OT: Regarding the iPhone, one of my friend's farm's coconut tree climber asked him to buy an iphone for him out of his payment dues, so which economic strata of society owns what is irrelevant these times.

EDIT:

Today's news about maruti:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/15122526.cms

[ritz3645]

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Regarding the iPhone, one of my friend's farm's coconut tree climber asked him to buy an iphone for him out of his payment dues, so which economic strata of society owns what is irrelevant these times.

EDIT:

Today's news about maruti:

Maruti's woes piling up, Haryana asks company to pay Rs 235 crore to farmers - The Times of India

This coconut climber iphone story is little interesting, bet if he knows english for iphone use, he can do wonders.

This is the classical democrat vs republican debate like USA.

In life, or in any environment,every action has equal and opposite reaction.

Maruthi had it coming for long.

Govt gives free land water etc to companies to bring about change to its inhabitants.
But.
Maruthi stock was doing so well, they never shared the fruits with employees.
If they had shared, this situation will never happen.

All mens are equal but some are more equal- Animal farm.

I did read of the HR GM wanting to change or move away from MSIL, fearing retaliation, but was stopped and he paid the price, in the ugly chess game of management vs union.

Every man is honest if treated honestly, if people under pay, employees steal, as they also have needs.

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by SLK

Did we forget Honda? It was a menace! the NH connecting Delhi-Mumbai was closed.

What we forget is that strike has still not repeated . which mean people there has taken care of workers legitimate interests and hence both are living in peace and harmony. now compare that to MSIL pls.

I am really appalled at the short sightedness. just because a person dies, people are all out to kill 3000 workers without even realizing why it happened.

where as everybody is busy looking after the 90 Odd people injured and MSIL has provided them with ICU and all facilities, has anybody wondered what happened to those 60 workers who were reported injured. wasn ;t it the responsibility of MSIL to get them admitted and provide health care as well , Oh i forget they are petty ITI workers meant to be exploited and left in lurch why care for such low profile people when we have DGM and GM admitted & than All 3000 workers are murderers why care for them .

In hindsight because a person has died, we are ready to hang 3000 workers.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

I am really appalled at the short sightedness. just because a person dies, people are all out to kill 3000 workers without even realizing why it happened.

Shortsightedness? I call it my lack of imagination, where I can't imagine what could Maruti have done to get burnt/beaten and killed.

Are you purely speculating/ imagining on what must have happened that justified one person's death, or you know something that we don't?

I wonder what different is Maruti doing at a plant that is 30kms away from the other! which continues to run peacefully.

Lets talk facts! We have one person dead, many seriously injured, what are your facts that justify this?

Being economically/ socially weaker does not automatically justify these actions.

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

What we forget is that strike has still not repeated . which mean people there has taken care of workers legitimate interests and hence both are living in peace and harmony. now compare that to MSIL pls.

I am really appalled at the short sightedness. just because a person dies, people are all out to kill 3000 workers without even realizing why it happened.

where as everybody is busy looking after the 90 Odd people injured and MSIL has provided them with ICU and all facilities, has anybody wondered what happened to those 60 workers who were reported injured. wasn ;t it the responsibility of MSIL to get them admitted and provide health care as well , Oh i forget they are petty ITI workers meant to be exploited and left in lurch why care for such low profile people when we have DGM and GM admitted & than All 3000 workers are murderers why care for them .

In hindsight because a person has died, we are ready to hang 3000 workers.

I am sorry but one person has not died, he was murdered. If 3000 people were actually conspired the murder then i dont see any thing wrong in punishing them.

[rajeshchand]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

I am really appalled at the short sightedness. just because a person dies, people are all out to kill 3000 workers without even realizing why it happened.

You are trying to justify a murder here, well the workers lost their cause when they killed someone, else remember the earlier strike, they got their issues heard last time around.

[Gansan]

^^Afaik during the last strike workers' woes were not addressed; just the ring leaders were bought off and the back of the strike was broken. Top honchos patted themselves on their backs. The chickens have come home to roost now.

Suzuki will die without India. So they will never close the plant. And a mere change of location without a change in their mindset will only see history repeating itself at a different place, different time.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by 1100D

Who knows what the real flashpoint was. Why would a collective mass be so frustrated so as to beat up everyone they thought was the management type.

Death might not have been the intent. Had it been, there would have been more, easily.

In the developed world, there are strict laws governing working conditions of workers and companies are evaluated on that in order to remain open.

In the developed world there are peaceful means to fight injustice. Whatever the flash point was, it can not be justified for using unlawful force or violence.

Death might not be the intent but the actions could not be justified even if the HR manager was alive now.

[dZired]

Looks like the rival companies have already started capitalizing on the messy situation of Maruti. Hyundai has recently wrote to its dealers to "push" and increase the sale of i10,i20 and the verna by mentioning about the "recent happenings at competitor's manufacturing unit".

Source: Rivals eye gain from Maruti's woes: Hyundai Pushes i20, Verna sales as waiting period for Swift, Dzire goes up - The Economic Times

"With the happening of recent violent activities in our competitor's manufacturing unit, there would be shortage in supply of Swift and Dzire in the coming days. This presents us with a chance to increase our volumes in i20 petrol and diesel cars," Hyundai said in its communication, a copy of which is available with TOI. The company said efforts should be made to personally reach out to prospective customers to take advantage of the situation. "Telecall and sms all prospective customers (all walk-ins and other customers of last three months) and push the available trims in i20 (Magna option) in diesel and other petrol trims," the communication said. Hyundai said higher incentives should be paid to consultants selling the available trims in both i20 and Verna.

Skoda Auto, while expressing concern at the developments at Manesar, did agree that there could be some benefits to competing brands like Skoda Fabia due to the situation.

"First of all, I would say that this is an unfortunate occurrence at Maruti," Skoda India MD Sudhir Rao said. On possible benefits to Fabia, he said, "Yes, I suspect that to some extent, some impact on Maruti's sales could be there as Swift and Dzire buyers look for other brands in the short run."

Ford India also said some benefits could flow in. "There are some customers who do not want to wait and could go for other brands. But we will not specifically go after them," Ford India ED Nigel Wark said.
While rivals eye Maruti's customer pie, the Japanese giant is confident that the strong brand equity of its products will keep the momentum going despite the big waiting list.

But Maruti is still confident that their customers wont be looking at other brands.

"We are confident about our products. Even during the strikes last year when the production of Swift and Dzire was impacted, there was not much of a flight from our stable," Mayank Pareek, managing executive officer (sales & marketing ) at Maruti Suzuki India, said.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by rajeshchand

, else remember the earlier strike, they got their issues heard last time around.

Hearing of issues is one thing, removal of the pain is another. So did it get rightfully resolved or a conclusion arrived at, that wasn't a result of wanting to get back to conditions of resuming income.

Originally Posted by veyron_head

I can't fathom how someone can justify mob violence, whatever the rationale behind the violence may be.

Originally Posted by veyron_head

Empathizing with what drove the mob to this act or that their intent wasn't murder and it just happened etc ,

The keyword here is Mob violence, signifying "collective" action of a lot of people. Generally collective action is to be seen a little bit differently from individual acts. There was a collective anger, why?

Many can interpret my statement to be justifying the act. But then, unless we adress the "why" above, I am not sure that this won't repeat.

Originally Posted by veyron_head

only goes to justify that act and more importantly dilutes the intensity of this crime. I would think so.

The problem that we see is that, we are only seeing the violence (or what resulted from it) as the only definable crime.

What about the instigators. What about the circumstances/actions/inactions that lead to a collective disgust. We dont yet see those as criminal, but may have a far more heinous impact on the lives of a far more number of people, whose deaths might not be getting as much attention as this one is.

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

In the developed world there are peaceful means to fight injustice.

In the developed world, all stakeholders/parties anticipate arriving at a win-win situation. Contrary to money wrestling that goes in the wannabe countries. They have social security and what not, which ensures that they do not die of hunger or are forced to adopt to inhuman/unergonomic work environment or practices for a pittance to resume their livelihood.

A big question to ask again. What were the security guards doing? How many of them have reported injured/hurt? Why did they not resist the beating up? Or are these third party security agencies just there for the show, they dont have the capacity or capability to curb real incidents. Or were they completely overpowered by the sheer collective will.

[sgiitk]

Read today that the Haryana Govt is raising a demand on Maruti for Rs.225 crores as enhanced compensation for the farmers. The timing makes me wonder whether this is an attempt to split and damage the support of the farmers.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

But what is the solution? Should MSIL move off bag and baggage to some other state?

That is a classic example of public memory being too short.
There is a riot in the Manesar plant. What do you do you do? Shift to the state, which only a few years back faced the worst kind of riots in recent times. Smartly Maruti has resisted the temptation.
That would be the most short sighted solution. It's like shifting to a nearby locale because there is a rain in your place. When the clouds move it's going to rain there too. Solution here is to buy a Raincoat, not running between States.

[lurker]

hear that there were wage negotiations which was one aspect. Even if MSIL gives a Rs. 15000/month raise across the board to each and every one of its 3000 labour force, would still amount to $10 million/annum at current exchange rates, far lower than the $453 million or so that they paid to the 'owners' Suzuki as royalties for IP or some pretext.

September 10, 2011
The story of those who make all stories possible is a simple one of every moment’s struggle. The around 3000 workers in Maruti Suzuki in Manesar, Haryana, more than half of whom are hired on contract, are extremely angry, and this collective anger is one of the most lethal arms that they possess. It arises from discontent of the unending days and nights of alienated labour, reduced to being mere parts of the machine, torn from his fellow workers by the attack on the right to organise. The worker lives and bleeds to death, faces insults and feels fatigue, thirsts for water and suppresses his urine, all this, only so that the assembly line goes on. In this nerve centre of the automobile industry, the Plot no.1, Phase 3A of the Industrial Model Town Manesar, a Swift and an SX4 model car is assembled in 38 seconds. 1250 squeezed out per day. Super-profits of the bosses. Efficiency. Development. Growth. Consumer satisfaction. A ‘happy’ middle class family.

furthermore ..

these were the conditions at the time of an older dharna staged at MSIL

· The production capacity of the factory is 1200 cars per day where as the workers are forced to produce 1400-1470 cars per day in the factory, which makes the production conditions stressful and inhuman for the workers.

· All workers have to pass through a 3 year training period during which no labour laws are applicable. At the end of the 3-year period they receive uniforms, and are supposed to be made permanent. Instead, many of them remain frozen as ‘trainees’ and their permanent appointment is delayed.

· Working period of 8 hours exclude lunch and tea breaks. The workers are provided with a recess of 7 minutes between 2 hours of continuous work. In this limited time the worker has to have refreshments as well as visit the toilet.

· The electronic attendance machine installed by the administration marks a worker absent for half a day and cuts his salary even if he is one minute late and continues to work through that half day.

· There is no provision of casual leave or sick leave and if a worker goes on holiday for 1 day the amount deducted is Rs. 1500, for 2 days it is Rs. 2200, for three days it is Rs. 7000-8000.

· If a worker goes on holiday the amount deducted is 1500 but if he works overtime on a holiday then he will be paid Rs. 250 only.

· There is no proper health facility. Only if a worker is admitted to a hospital for 24 hrs only then the company reimburses 80% of the expenditure. No reimbursements are offered for medical expenditure on family members.

· Conveyance is a major problem, as the buses though apparently provided by the company, charge fare from workers.

· The management stints on safety equipment. Gloves become unusable soon – but they are made to turn the gloves inside out and re-use, resulting in rashes and allergies.{shame on you Maruti}

· Against all such inhuman conditions, the workers at the Maruti’s Manesar plant sustained a 13-day long strike from 4 June-17 June. The right to form an independent union emerged as the key demand of this strike, even as the management refused to recognise any union except the pro-management Maruti Udyog Kamgar Union. The strike ended when the company agreed to take back 11 terminated workers. In principle the management also agreed that an independent plant-level union could be allowed as long as it had no ‘outsiders.’ This time around, in August, the management issued the ‘Good Conduct’ notice, amounting to an illegal lockout. The workers have been on dharna ever since.

· The workers who are inside the plant are brought to the work site in covered trucks and are under continuous surveillance of the police. The Maruti authorities have brought workers from other plants and trying to run the production but production in these unusual conditions are associated with life risks and other hazards. Some workers reported that under similar situations in 2006, six workers who were brought by the authorities from outside died inside the plant in an accident. The death of these workers was completely erased from public notice by surreptitious means by the Maruti authorities.

Update on Workers’ struggle at Maruti Manesar plant at Sanhati

MSEU Communiqué: 5th September 2011

As you know, from 29th August when Maruti Suzuki Industries Limited, MSIL, Manesar (Plot 1, Phase 3A) terminated 11 and suspended 38 workers, the production is effectively at a halt in the plant. The company has been splashing rumours across the media that production has resumed through some ITI-trained contract workers and has been quoting figures of 125-150 etc. of the number of cars produced in the plant.
We, Maruti Suzuki Employees Union (MSEU), send this communiqué on the situation since August 29th to lay out the real picture. The company has gone on a recruitment drive through contractors in the area, after dismissing its own workers, and has hired some contract workers in a desperate bid to start production. However, these workers do not have the knowledge, honed through years of skilled work, required to run the production. Of these new contract workers, many who have come out of the plant in solidarity with the workers outside, having stayed inside for past four days, tell us that they tried to operationalise the production line, being forced by the management for 1-2 days. But being unsuccessful, they had to push some cars down from the line, instead of the models going through the entire process, including proper inspection.
When earlier all over 3000 workers, permanent and contract, worked stretched to their full capacity, the company somehow used to produce 1000-1200 cars every day. And now, can the 120-odd untrained workers and its handful of engineers and supervisors produce anything? The production was at a total halt in the beginning of last week, and in the last 2-3 days, a meagre 8-10 cars were produced in the plant, which are all faulty models somehow clubbed together, as the company fakes its figures and tries to instil consumer confidence. The Swift model which is produced in this plant has at present 80000 bookings. In this situation the company is unable to run any proper production of cars, and is resorting to churn out faulty models. The company may send these faulty models to the market, so it could also be blamed on us later as it has done till now. At the same time, some few management and staff are also conniving with other companies so that they could dig in their own profits from this, again conveniently blaming the workers.
We want to tell everyone that unlike what the company and the media are painting us as- undisciplined and adamant saboteurs- we have a commitment for our work and value what we produce with our sweat and blood. It is we workers who produce, and not the impersonal company and its robots.
So we appeal to consumers to stop buying Maruti Suzuki cars till we workers sit at the factory gate, as it will entail in your loss, given the manner in which they are being produced. WE also appeal to all concerned to stand in solidarity with our struggle to end termination, suspension and charge-sheet, and to establish our right to unionise.
*******************************

[rajeshchand]

Originally Posted by 1100D

The keyword here is Mob violence, signifying "collective" action of a lot of people. Generally collective action is to be seen a little bit differently from individual acts. There was a collective anger, why?

Do you really know the meaning of "collective action" by each and every individual of this country to resolve their issues, it means "Civil War" so be learned what it actually means, there is a process in a democratic set up and that takes its own course where in everyones opinion is heard not just the management or of the trade unions. Collective action of the infamous Air India-Indian Airlines recent pilots strike, do you know what the demands were, they were outright flimsy to laughable for common man, but those are important issues for those, so were they agreed to, NO. Collective action (read mob violence) is no answer to all the woes.