[tacho9000]

This is news guys. Fiat has finally opened the doors of its first exclusive dealership in kolkata. Known as Garodia Fiat it is located at Kalimandir near Phoolbagan. Looked decent. Now we just need a FIATian from kolkata to get to know the service experience. If it is decent then we just might go in for a Punto or Linea if and when the budget and urge to buy a new car permits.

[lapis_lazuli]

Originally Posted by tacho9000

Now we just need a FIATian from kolkata to get to know the service experience.

You might consider sending a PM to fellow bhpian arpanjha. He owns a 1.2 Active, IIRC.

[KarthikK]

I was just casually browsing through some videos on youtube when I stumbled upon this mouth-watering video of the Abarth Punto Evo EsseEsse :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSCAQH1Q0oM

Seriously, what a stunner of a car! The visual appeal and the exhaust note is simply mind-blowing. This is going to be one heck of a performance monster, putting almost everything else in the Indian market to shame in the performance area!

Of special mention is the on-board acceleration part in Sport mode, which the video shows from 1:08 onwards. 0-100 kmph is dispatched in around 6 seconds flat! Beat that!

P.S - Does any bank offer a 20-year EMI option?? I'd rather take this than a home loan *winks*

[Aceman82]

Originally Posted by KarthikK

............................................

Of special mention is the on-board acceleration part in Sport mode, which the video shows from 1:08 onwards. 0-100 kmph is dispatched in around 6 seconds flat! Beat that!

P.S - Does any bank offer a 20-year EMI option?? I'd rather take this than a home loan *winks*

While everyone would love to see a Abarth Punto Essese , i doubt whether Fiat would actually launch the Essese (or) at-least the mechanical bits of Abarth Essese.

The 180 HP engine might needed special petrol which would not be available easily in India, those 18inch Rims with the low profile Pirelli's would make the ride unbearable in our roads and not to mention the Koni Dampers/Abarth suspension would make the car hit each and every scientific car breakers in our country (more so in Bangalore where you stay) plus would increase the cost to 15L.

Hence what we can realistically expect is Abarth Punto Evo interiors with possibly the Tjet engine with a higher state of tune and upgraded brakes/suspension. It would still be the hottest hatch in the market and could be priced under 10L but anything higher priced then it would be no show.

I would love to be proved wrong by Fiat but it is unlikely that Essese would be launched in India.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by Aceman82

I would love to be proved wrong by Fiat but it is unlikely that Essese would be launched in India.

Thats what even I had been pondering. But then we also see 160bhp 1.8 TSI engines from VW running on regular petrol. So as you said it may be a similar strategy here as well. For example a 1.6 T-Jet that may crank up some thing close to 140/150 bhp.

But even that would some thing to look out for !

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by Aceman82

While everyone would love to see a Abarth Punto Essese , i doubt whether Fiat would actually launch the Essese (or) at-least the mechanical bits of Abarth Essese.

The 180 HP engine might needed special petrol which would not be available easily in India, those 18inch Rims with the low profile Pirelli's would make the ride unbearable in our roads and not to mention the Koni Dampers/Abarth suspension would make the car hit each and every scientific car breakers in our country (more so in Bangalore where you stay) plus would increase the cost to 15L.

Hence what we can realistically expect is Abarth Punto Evo interiors with possibly the Tjet engine with a higher state of tune and upgraded brakes/suspension. It would still be the hottest hatch in the market and could be priced under 10L but anything higher priced then it would be no show.

I would love to be proved wrong by Fiat but it is unlikely that Essese would be launched in India.

The reason for us to believe that the real abarth experiece would be provided is because Mr. Enrico himself told we will not cut corners for the abarth launch and will be providing the true Abarth experience. Hope these words are kept up.

Regarding the fuel, you can expect a lower state of tune of the Essesse. Not sure how they would achieve it.

Originally Posted by ampere

Thats what even I had been pondering. But then we also see 160bhp 1.8 TSI engines from VW running on regular petrol. So as you said it may be a similar strategy here as well. For example a 1.6 T-Jet that may crank up some thing close to 140/150 bhp.

But even that would some thing to look out for !

Nowhere is the 1.6 Tjet is available. The have an 1.8 NA engine but that isn't used in the Abarth. Even the 1.4 multiair produces 165 bhp, the essesse version is tuned higher for 180 odd bhp.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Nowhere is the 1.6 Tjet is available. The have an 1.8 NA engine but that isn't used in the Abarth. Even the 1.4 multiair produces 165 bhp, the essesse version is tuned higher for 180 odd bhp.

Thanks. Aware of it. I just gave it as an example. But your mention that we get a full Abarth should set it up cleanly.

The table below sums it up nicely

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Grande_Punto

[KarthikK]

Originally Posted by Aceman82

While everyone would love to see a Abarth Punto Essese , i doubt whether Fiat would actually launch the Essese (or) at-least the mechanical bits of Abarth Essese.

The 180 HP engine might needed special petrol which would not be available easily in India, those 18inch Rims with the low profile Pirelli's would make the ride unbearable in our roads and not to mention the Koni Dampers/Abarth suspension would make the car hit each and every scientific car breakers in our country (more so in Bangalore where you stay) plus would increase the cost to 15L.

Perhaps you missed the scoop picture taken by one of our BHPians a month ago.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3067964

The image clearly shows the EsseEsse version on test duty. How they will manage to run it on the lower fuel quality here in India, is beyond the scope of my thinking.

Hence what we can realistically expect is Abarth Punto Evo interiors with possibly the Tjet engine with a higher state of tune and upgraded brakes/suspension. It would still be the hottest hatch in the market and could be priced under 10L but anything higher priced then it would be no show.

I would love to be proved wrong by Fiat but it is unlikely that Essese would be launched in India.

the last I heard from a reliable source, Abarth is not concerned about wooing the average aam aadmi who will prefer a Swift DZire or Ertiga DDiS over an Abarth due to the "bada gaadi" psychology. The target audience is clearly different for a 180+ bhp 3-door SuperSport hatch. Yes it will have ground clearance issues, non-existent back seat space, harsh ride and so on. So do most other German sports cars in the country. This car and its price tag won't bring Abarth numbers on sales charts (neither are they looking for that), but it would definitely help in building Abarth's performance credentials with the few enthusiast buyers who go for it.

Like GTO mentioned in one of his posts about the Abarth SS, how many of us middle class enthusiasts can afford an out-and-out, factory-fresh performance car like a BMW M5, Mitsubishi Evo or Volvo S60 at 50-60L price tags?? The Abarth EsseEsse is still a stonker of a deal even at 15L for hardcore enthusiasts. Like you said, I'm just wishing they don't detune it too much or give a mere sticker + cosmetics job like the one I did on my car.

[StarrySky]

I think Fiat could get away with some stickers and the "Sport" name for the Punto MJD, without making any changes to make the car any sportier.

But Abarth is almost a separate brand, which is known for performance cars. I don't think Fiat would (or should) make any compromises on the Abarth Punto to keep costs down, especially when they can assemble the car locally. If they do that, they will be cause more harm than good for the Abarth brand and Fiat itself - which is the opposite of what they are trying to achieve.

Of course, they may not bring the most powerful Abarth version here. But I think there won't be much difference between the Abarth versions available in India and abroad.

[Aceman82]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

The reason for us to believe that the real abarth experiece would be provided is because Mr. Enrico himself told we will not cut corners for the abarth launch and will be providing the true Abarth experience. Hope these words are kept up.

I don't beileve that Enrico promised the EsseEsse specked Abarth and the 'experience' could mean a multitude of stuff right from Show room experience.

Probably we would get the Abarth Evo version but even here i am not sure if importing the interiors without the scale offered would be cost effective.

Originally Posted by KarthikK

Perhaps you missed the scoop picture taken by one of our BHPians a month ago.

.................................................. ....................

Like GTO mentioned in one of his posts about the Abarth SS, how many of us middle class enthusiasts can afford an out-and-out, factory-fresh performance car like a BMW M5, Mitsubishi Evo or Volvo S60 at 50-60L price tags?? The Abarth EsseEsse is still a stonker of a deal even at 15L for hardcore enthusiasts. Like you said, I'm just wishing they don't detune it too much or give a mere sticker + cosmetics job like the one I did on my car.

I did see the scoop picture but a test mule does not mean that the same version would be launched. From a marketing point of view a Esse Spece'd Abarth would mean that with detuned engine for our engine conditions may provide around 160HP which would be the same engine output of Vrs but the Tires , Suspension kits, Brakes would propel it north of 15L.

I am not even taking into account the interiors which are different in Evo/Evo Esse based Punto's when compared to what we get. If it is a CBU route then things would be easy even if it fails badly but considering the ROI need to establish a production line and a host of other stuff for a CKD it would be tough sell when VRS would be available at the same or similar price points and comes with much better seating for a family plus the sedan feeling.

Eventhough we in team-bhp would keep calling ourselves car enthusiasts how many would actually go for a Abarth Esse against the VRS or even those two petrol cars at the price points ? Thus the query is will Fiat go though such a process (CKD) to sell lesser cars then even than the VRS ? Note that due to higher engine capacity Abarth will pay the same excise duty as proper four door saloons.

Hence the logical option for Fiat would be to use the Current Punto Bodyshell (Four Door) , plonk the T-Jet engine with a higher tune , upgrade the brakes and stiffen the suspension, put those Abarth seats,slightly spice up the current interiors, use the Abarth Alloys/Sticker's and sell it for less than 9.0L-9.5L ex-showroom. This would mean less capital investment and less risks while still having a healthy price difference to its nearest competitor and on the outside people would not know any better. Like i said , i hope to be proved wrong by Fiat.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by Aceman82

I am not even taking into account the interiors which are different in Evo/Evo Esse based Punto's when compared to what we get. If it is a CBU route then things would be easy even if it fails badly but considering the ROI need to establish a production line and a host of other stuff for a CKD it would be tough sell

My guess is that Abarth Punto Evo will be launched first to make an impact/hype on the customers and then a few months down the line, the current Punto will be upgraded to Evo version. That should give Fiat some economies of scale and better ROI. Fiat would also be hoping that any hype created by the Abarth Punto Evo would then help the normal Punto Evo as well.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

My guess is that Abarth Punto Evo will be launched first to make an impact/hype on the customers and then a few months down the line, the current Punto will be upgraded to Evo version. That should give Fiat some economies of scale and better ROI. Fiat would also be hoping that any hype created by the Abarth Punto Evo would then help the normal Punto Evo as well.

Absolutely makes sense to even assemble the Abarth Essesse at Ranjangoan as the abarth and Punto are not two different platforms. Its indeed the same platform which has been made into a sportier abarth. So it should definitely be possible to have the Abarth assembled here.

One the sporty image is made, the Punto can be relaunched as Evo and it could rub off with the positive effect subject they dont retain the current decade old gearbox.

[AutoIndian]

I guess this is the right thread to post about the Fiat 500XL (If not moderators please move it to the appropriate thread). Experts on Fiat India strategy, could you please comment if this car is ever going to come to India, if yes then what are the timelines?

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/fi...ion-58453.html

[KarthikK]

Originally Posted by Aceman82

I did see the scoop picture but a test mule does not mean that the same version would be launched. From a marketing point of view a Esse Spece'd Abarth would mean that with detuned engine for our engine conditions may provide around 160HP which would be the same engine output of Vrs but the Tires , Suspension kits, Brakes would propel it north of 15L.

Very valid points Aceman82. True, it does not confirm a launch, but it does point in the right direction that they are taking steps towards reaching a balance between the requirements of that car, and the conditions available here. I was just a bit excited with the prospects of owning affordable performance cars, hence posted the video more out of over-enthusiasm than anything else.

I am not even taking into account the interiors which are different in Evo/Evo Esse based Punto's when compared to what we get. If it is a CBU route then things would be easy even if it fails badly but considering the ROI need to establish a production line and a host of other stuff for a CKD it would be tough sell when VRS would be available at the same or similar price points and comes with much better seating for a family plus the sedan feeling.

True. I don't dispute those points. The trouble with the Indian market is - people expect a sporty car to be able to do family duty too. vRS will serve this purpose well. Abarth Punto SS, being originally a 2-door, may not satisfy that requirement. It will ultimately be bought by people who are looking for a second (fun-to-drive) car in the garage. On true performance comparisons, like I was saying in one of my earlier posts here, the power-to-weight of a Laura vRS is ~115 PS /ton, while that of Abarth Punto SS will be ~160 PS / ton. There is simply no comparison on performance grounds, not even from the famed BMW 320D which stands at ~125 PS /ton. The only competitors to the SS on performance, below 50L will be the BMW 530D, volvo S60, and the Mitsubishi Evo. SS at 15L is still a killer of a deal for the performance car buyer, considering the rest of those cost ~40-50L. How many of us can even dream of affording those cars?

The numbers will suffer miserably on the sales charts, agree. I'm sure Fiat guys will have thought about this (hatch v/s sedan hysteria in India) before even considering bringing the performance brand to India. Their intention, clearly, is tilted towards Abarth brand awareness first. Sales numbers will not be of very high priority for a supersport hatch. I would be surprised if they sell more than 100 cars in the first year. The fact that they are even considering entering (or creating rather) the performance game here, and trying to create a new performance hatch segment is appreciable from an enthusiast's point of view. It will only prompt other car makers to take a piece of the cake and launch similar performance hatches.

Hence the logical option for Fiat would be to use the Current Punto Bodyshell (Four Door) , plonk the T-Jet engine with a higher tune , upgrade the brakes and stiffen the suspension, put those Abarth seats,slightly spice up the current interiors, use the Abarth Alloys/Sticker's and sell it for less than 9.0L-9.5L ex-showroom.

In fact, this process is what Abarth does with Fiat cars . The platform remains the same as the base car. Abarth replacements kits are added to spruce up power, suspension, tyres, brakes, etc. Also, some of the interior parts are of higher quality than the regular base Fiat. I'm not sure how they are going to price the car though. It will be nice to wait and watch what they do on the pricing.

While I agree with you on the affordability aspect, I am of the opinion that they shouldn't detune too much or reduce the quality of any of the aspects of Abarth Punto to reduce prices. Let them offer the full spec Abarth at 14-15L. That will ensure the Abarth brand experience is not diluted.

What they should do for your suggestion is - they can just plonk the current Linea T-Jet's ~120PS engine into the Punto. Anyway they have the engines and the assembly lines ready here. It won't cost too much to give a Punto T-Jet with leather interiors and all 4 discs, bigger tyres, etc at 9-9.5 lacs. I'm not sure what is stopping them from doing this, especially now that there is the Polo 1.2 TSI to give it company. A Punto t-Jet will be a monster hatch to drive as it is. People who want the less practical, but full-spec Abarth can stretch and buy it at the full value (12L or 15L or whatever they price it at).

[arjab]

Originally Posted by tacho9000

This is news guys. Fiat has finally opened the doors of its first exclusive dealership in kolkata. Known as Garodia Fiat it is located at Kalimandir near Phoolbagan. Looked decent. Now we just need a FIATian from kolkata to get to know the service experience. If it is decent then we just might go in for a Punto or Linea if and when the budget and urge to buy a new car permits.

Phoolbagan would mean, i assume, at Beliaghata Main Road, where there is a temple on the road right?

I don't know whether this is the same Garodia, but there was one notorious Garodia Distributors or some such named outfit quite some time back in Kolkata. They were in the auto workshop business having started with Daewoo and then switched to Tata Motors. Their Tata workshop was located behind Ruby General Hospital area.
In fact, according to a close friend of mine, who was responsible for Tata Motor's after sales operations in Kolkata region, Tata Motors was on track to de-recognise Garodia. I do not know whether finally that happened or not. Then the reasons cited were many, starting from inefficiencies at the workshop, customer billing issues, spare parts issues, poor customer experience etc, etc.
If this is the same party/outfit, maybe it is worth checking out its antecedents before you put your hard earned money on the new metal.