[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I agree that the 90PS (VGT) is coming for the Ciaz but I feel this car needs better performance figures.

My only grouse is why not a larger displacement engine with higher performance figures from the Ciaz segment that can be used for the S-Cross and for the Ertiga also. Let the 1.3 MJD on the whole be left for the hatchback segment.

Anurag.

My question here: why we need performance from all cars starting from hatchbacks to sedans to MPVs to SUVs? Why can't some cars stay in the border of FE and performance?

[rednikhil]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Just going by figures:

1.3 MJD - 75PS & 190Nm
1.5 i-DTEC - 100PS & 200Nm

What I want to say here is the i-DTEC is not a fire breather but an overall better spec engine.

Incorrect figures mate! Compare it to the VGT and not the FGT of the Fiat Multijet.

A 1.5L mill giving out 200 nm, not exactly a technological marvel from Honda. Add to that the highly unrefined nature of the i-DTEC. Remember, this is Honda's First Diesel in India NOT the First Diesel in the World. Honda has been producing i-CTDi engines in Europe since many years so such a crude attempt with the Earth Dreams Unit in India is hardly pardonable. I feel there's too much cutting of corners in Asia-Specific models like the City.


From the City's Official Review:

[sandeep3in]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Just going by figures:

Let's not forget the 1.3MJD when launched was not so refined when it was launched. The refinement, improvements etc came in the later stages of evolution. The current generation Swift engine is the most refined lot when compared to the older Swift's from time it was launched.

.

I have owned a swift D which was in the initial batches of 2008, swift being a very common vehicle on the road and mostly known to have a petrol model.

I have encountered this problem quite often during fueling that the attendant mistook the vehicle as a petrol one.I have also heard the attendant confirming with me again and again that it is a diesel vehicle.

Iam definitely sure that many swift D owner would have encountered the same.To sum it up the Swift D was very refined from the day one it only improved further recently with the use of Synthetic oil.

In terms of refinement Honda IDTEC is on the same lines as a Vento D. I wouldn't mind the refinement in the vento for the sheer performance of the Engine, but for the IDTEC i have nothing else to get apart from Mileage.At the end of the day buying a 10 lakh car and that too a diesel would some one mind about the mileage ?

I wouldn't care about the mileage and what i expect is some performance which tends to show that i own a Ten lakh car .

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by rednikhil

Remember, this is Honda's First Diesel in India NOT the First Diesel in the World. Honda has been producing i-CTDi engines in Europe since many years so such a crude attempt with the Earth Dreams Unit in India is hardly pardonable.

I agree that it is neither refined nor powerful but I am happy they attempted it for the Indian market and brought it at last. In Europe or any other place FE and cost cutting is NOT the main thing to drive the market but it secondary and plays role.vi am bit saying FEE and costs are ignored but safety is prioritised. Here in India FE, low cost and cheap vehicles get good market share.

Why would a manufacturer want to provide everything in the first instance? I am confident Honda will refine this engine for the good.

Why didn't Honda launch the i-CTDi directly? Wouldn't it be cost advantage as the production is running elsewhere and just the production process must be adapted in India. Why develop this 'Earth Dreams' technology and invest so much of time and money?

PS: Above is just my opinion and not offend to anyone.

Anurag.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by rednikhil

Incorrect figures mate! Compare it to the VGT and not the FGT of the Fiat Multijet.

The Amaze 1.5L i-DTEC engine is also a FGT and not VGT. Just to clarify, Honda has heavily detuned the Amaze engine in favour of FE.

The 1.5L i-DTEC is actually the same engine as the 1.6L i-DTEC in Europe with a reduced stroke to get 1.5L displacement and a FGT instead of VGT.

In Europe the 1.6L engine produces 118BHP which is identical to the 1.6L MJD.

Honda basically took a shortcut by using the same engine reducing the stroke and detuning it heavily to match and even exceed a 1.3L engine in fuel efficiency.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by rednikhil

Incorrect figures mate! Compare it to the VGT and not the FGT of the Fiat Multijet.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The Amaze 1.5L i-DTEC engine is also a FGT and not VGT. Just to clarify, Honda has heavily detuned the Amaze engine in favour of FE.

Thanks for the clarification. So this engine (1.6L i-DTEC) can come as an upgrade at a later stage may be.

Anurag.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Thanks for the clarification. So this engine (1.6L i-DTEC) can come as an upgrade at a later stage may be.

Anurag.

Doubt it, cause the 1.5L was engineered for indian markets specifically. The 1.6L also has a DPF for tighter emissions.

Basically Honda will keep the 1.5L for India and the 1.6L for international markets.

What we may see is a 1.5L with better performance figures but don't expect it anytime soon.

[desdemona]

Back to the topic: it was claimed that the 90 bhp, 207 Nm, 1.3 Fiat VGT mjd will be too puny for the Maruti Suzuki Ciaz. Is that not a function of the car's weight and heft of its build? If the new Honda City diesel feels amply peppy enough despite having an engine that is no more potent than the MJD it is because of the car's excessively flighty, flimsy build. And: it isn't the chassis or the skin of the City that is made of light-weight aluminium but the engine!

And so we come to the real worry about the Ciaz: that it will be yet another East-Asian, made-for-third-world pseudo-sedan, that it will look flashy, be efficient and feel powerful enough while actually being deficient in too many of the areas that define a 'sedan': build, ride, handling, steering, braking, safety.

I expect Suzuki to outdo the City and Verna, though, in the balance of car traits. Though, equally, it is too much to expect Maruti to meet the standard of all-round engineering+design of the new Linea, the facelifted Fiesta, or of the Vento and Rapid.

[akshay87kumar]

Originally Posted by desdemona

And so we come to the real worry about the Ciaz: that it will be yet another East-Asian, made-for-third-world pseudo-sedan, that it will look flashy, be efficient and feel powerful enough while actually being deficient in too many of the areas that define a 'sedan': build, ride, handling, steering, braking, safety.

We have test driven the Ciaz and the NCAP ratings of the car have been published to let us actually comment on the drive, ride, braking and safety features of the car, have we?

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by desdemona

And so we come to the real worry about the Ciaz: that it will be yet another East-Asian, made-for-third-world pseudo-sedan, that it will look flashy, be efficient and feel powerful enough while actually being deficient in too many of the areas that define a 'sedan': build, ride, handling, steering, braking, safety.

With engineers stating that their focus was ride, handling and rear seat comfort, I doubt that the car will be as pseudo-sedan-ish as you claim it might. Most of Suzukis newer products; Swift, Grand Vitara, Kizashi, SX4 S-Cross etc, meet and also exceed the competition's standards in several areas.

While the SX4 sedan is now old, when it first came out, it was the only car in its segment with ABS, Airbags etc so don't be so fast to pass such strong judgement mate!

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

With engineers stating that their focus was ride, handling and rear seat comfort, I doubt that the car will be as pseudo-sedan-ish as you claim it might. Most of Suzukis newer products; Swift, Grand Vitara, Kizashi, SX4 S-Cross etc, meet and also exceed the competition's standards in several areas.

While the SX4 sedan is now old, when it first came out, it was the only car in its segment with ABS, Airbags etc so don't be so fast to pass such strong judgement mate!

I agree, as stated in an earlier post of mine: Suzuki has a record of building better-than-other-Japanese sedans.

My worry was limited to the point about it having engines with only about 90 bhp leading potentially to necessary 'weight-reduction' measures: i.e., a flimsy build, and compromised suspension toughness. I am inclined to believe Suzuki will strike a much better balance than either Honda or Hyundai have with the City and the Verna. Let's see.

[devsoftech]

Originally Posted by desdemona

My worry was limited to the point about it having engines with only about 90 bhp leading potentially to necessary 'weight-reduction' measures: i.e., a flimsy build, and compromised suspension toughness.

I agree. While safety ratings are not out yet, SX4 had a gap in peppiness and fuel economy factor. They might want to bring the baleno days back with new ciaz by targetting higher power-to-weight ratio to address these concerns. When they plonk heavier diesel engine in car's nose, they have stiffened the suspension in the past (For example: SX4, Ritz and Swift). I hope the sheet metal is atleast at par with SX4 in terms of build. Having owned one in the past - it was a heavy car (odd by maruti standards) and took some nasty hits with poise. Manufacturer can always tune engine, but making a stronger shell is not a daily job. If they can't make it like an european tank, it should not be as flimsy as my wagon-r and, atleast a better sheet metal than in the 2007-2013 honda city (not sure about new gen's quality).

[volkman10]

Maruti Suzuki Alivio/Ciaz Sedan to be launched in August.

Maruti Suzuki is gearing up to launch the SX4 replacement Alivio sedan in India in August 2014, earlier than previously expected.

http://www.autojunction.in/car-news/...gust-97202.cms

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Maruti Suzuki Alivio/Ciaz Sedan to be launched in August.

Suppose they could not twiddle their thumbs in empty air while Honda is making hay with their new City. Honda seems to have hit a purple patch with their diesel engine and if Ciaz lives up to its looks with an all round delivery package it will be hard time for them.

[IshaanIan]

Wow if the Alivio/Ciaz lives upto the hype and images we have been getting so far, I don't think Maruti needs to be worried about pricing it competitively. The car is styled exceptionally, has got a newly designed quite frankly brilliant looking interior, will come with an excellent list of features, has a decent set of motors powering it (the 1.3mjd will be annoying to see again but I doubt 95% of diesel buyers will care) and most importantly, it is a lot bigger than its C-segment rivals infact its length is just 75mm shy of the Corolla's in the D1 segment, while being over 100mm longer than the city and over 170mm longer than the Verna. With the engineer's clear statements that indicated that they stressed on interior comfort, good ride quality for rear passengers while at the same time maintaining a certain sporty handling nature, it seems clear that this car has got what it takes and more, in dollops, to make it's competition really scared. I wouldn't be surprised if this became the priciest C-segment sedan and it still outsold the Verna atleast since this offers so much, that even some D1 segment buyers will be attracted. Kudos Suzuki! :thumbsup

Let's just hope Maruti does not mess this one up. Fingers crossed.