[jacs]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Maybe, one reason why you didn't buy Innova in 2009 was because it didn't look VFM back then. That's exactly what Toyota wants the prospective customers to think. They protect resale value of the sold cars like a company protects the stock price.

And so, Innova is a very low risk proposition for a new customer now. Even if one spends so much money right now for so little, they can get most of it back when they sell the car.

I could not afford one in 2009 too, difference between Xylo E8 and Innova V was 3.5L that time with a shortage of atleast 50% of the features. But it was still a good option if money permits due to its good build quality and reputation as one of the best chauffer driven cars.

Now at 6-7L difference, I really doubt the investment protection for buyers. Anyhow many of the Innovas I know are workhorses to families while their premium sedans enjoy holiday most of the time. They would not be much worried on the so called resale. They use it for 5 years and swap with next Innova .

A mid segment buyer who is investing most of his hard earned money for his primary car would think again now and see if he can get hands on a butch SUV in lesser cost.

[mroptimist]

Originally Posted by cpbopanna

The 'refreshed' Innova with the 'ridiculous' pricing reminds me of some one shooting himself on the foot!

I genuinely envy the people who bought the 'un-refreshed' version!

I am one of those lucky people who bought the "un-refreshed" version last week and got a pre-price hike price and overall whopping discount of 65,000/- rupees.

[rawnak]

Innova is great example of manufacturer taking customers for a ride.
No major change since initial launch. price increase of 4L in 2 yrs , still
selling.
In USA, Toyota sells Sienna for same price (~$30k) which is in totally different league. http://www.toyota.com/sienna/#!/Welcome
Here they are giving us old tech, old design, no proper safety for inflated price.
I used to own 2007 Honda Oddyssey in USA and if i compare even in 2013, Innova looks poor man's van in front of 2007 USA model. Toyota and other manufacturers are taking Indian customers for granted.
Ertiga would have sold for 2L more if it just had toyota badge. I meet lot of people who disregard Ertiga just bcos of Maruti tag.
It is a pity that In india people get 1/3 salary of equivalent USA job but get cars double the USA price.

We are not demanding enough, we still treat rudimentary features as premium.

--rawnak

[rawnak]

Originally Posted by mroptimist

I am one of those lucky people who bought the "un-refreshed" version last week and got a pre-price hike price and overall whopping discount of 65,000/- rupees.

Sorry for quoting your post, but this expression of feeling lucky, discount of just 65k for 17L vehicle which enables toyota to exploit their customers. Why do they need to innovate or offer newer/better products when customers feel happy/lucky to get hold of one.

The time when we start giving manufacturers run for their money and have ample competition is when they will wake up and give us respect.

till then, be ready to shell out too much money for too basic a product.

I can understand people getting passionate about cool sedan with good looks & paying premium for it, but for a plain vanilla van with bland looks, even basic interiors, i can't understand.

--rawnak

[beejay]

Originally Posted by rawnak

till then, be ready to shell out too much money for too basic a product.

Very valid point. However there is something about the Innova that makes people want to buy again. I had a 2006 Innova that I sold out recently.
The build quality of atleast the body is way better than 2009 and above.
Somehow this time I plan to look elsewhere and with the new shape.

[karan561]

New Innova review by Top Gear India;



Read More here: Top Gear

[mroptimist]

Originally Posted by rawnak

Sorry for quoting your post, but this expression of feeling lucky, discount of just 65k for 17L vehicle which enables toyota to exploit their customers. Why do they need to innovate or offer newer/better products when customers feel happy/lucky to get hold of one.

The time when we start giving manufacturers run for their money and have ample competition is when they will wake up and give us respect.

till then, be ready to shell out too much money for too basic a product.

I can understand people getting passionate about cool sedan with good looks & paying premium for it, but for a plain vanilla van with bland looks, even basic interiors, i can't understand.

--rawnak

How can we give manufacturers a run for their money? Perhaps you should enlighten people like us (uncle type who care more for comfort than looks). What is the real alternative? Now don't start telling me xylo and all. It's my money and I very well know it's value I don't need to learn from you. Keep your gyaan to yourself.
Thanks.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by karan561

New Innova review by Top Gear India;

Attachment 1147858

Read More here: Top Gear

I was reading the review and was very happy when I came to this part -

"The top-end variant we’re talking about here is also – 'all new'. It sits over the earlier VX and is christened as ‘Z’. It gets more goodies than any variant has ever received. "

And what do I read further -

"What’s new here is the addition of two-tone leather seats and darker faux-wood finish on the dashboard and door panels."

Originally Posted by mroptimist

How can we give manufacturers a run for their money? Perhaps you should enlighten people like us (uncle type who care more for comfort than looks). What is the real alternative? Now don't start telling me xylo and all. It's my money and I very well know it's value I don't need to learn from you. Keep your gyaan to yourself.
Thanks.

Relax 'mroptimist'. I am calling you by your username because I dont know what I may say and you may get offended.

I am sure 'rawnak' did not mean any offence to you or your choice. And he obviously did not mention anything which categorized you or your choice of vehicle as "uncle type".

Secondly, we all have our choices and it is obvious that we need to respect everyone's decisions... True. At the same time, lets just be polite and respectful to all forum members, even if you dont agree to their thought process. Some of your statements were very rude and that is the sole reason, I quoted you.

[mroptimist]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

I was reading the review and was very happy when I came to this part -

"The top-end variant we’re talking about here is also – 'all new'. It sits over the earlier VX and is christened as ‘Z’. It gets more goodies than any variant has ever received. "

And what do I read further -

"What’s new here is the addition of two-tone leather seats and darker faux-wood finish on the dashboard and door panels."





Relax 'mroptimist'. I am calling you by your username because I dont know what I may say and you may get offended.

I am sure 'rawnak' did not mean any offence to you or your choice. And he obviously did not mention anything which categorized you or your choice of vehicle as "uncle type".

Secondly, we all have our choices and it is obvious that we need to respect everyone's decisions... True. At the same time, lets just be polite and respectful to all forum members, even if you dont agree to their thought process. Some of your statements were very rude and that is the sole reason, I quoted you.

I was referring myself as uncle type not rawnak. (I am proud to be called an uncle by the way )

And why are you replying to my post when I never quoted you. We all know that you used to own an Innova and you did not have a great ownership experience.

Even if I disagree with people's choices I don't comment as if they have chosen a stupid car. I respect everybody's choice. We all see value in a vehicle and buy. I don't need endorsement from you or anybody to feel good about my purchase. The same way I don't criticize other's choice.

What choice I have in your buying decision and vice versa.

Let their be peace.

Thanks.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by mroptimist

I was referring myself as uncle type not rawnak. (I am proud to be called an uncle by the way )

Dear Sir,

Please refer my post above, I have written:

'And he obviously did not mention anything which categorized you or your choice of vehicle as "uncle type".'

So I know you were talking about yourself!

And why are you replying to my post when I never quoted you.

Again, if you read my above post carefully, you will get an answer to that. I have mentioned:

"Some of your statements were very rude and that is the sole reason, I quoted you."

Secondly, T-BHP rules does not warrant me to answer only if I am quoted. As far as I know, every member here has the liberal rights to post their opinion on this forum on anything and everything.

We all know that you used to own an Innova and you did not have a great ownership experience.

Partly true. I had some good moments and some bad moments.

When I crib about the Innova, it is because I personally feel its not a value for money offering anymore. So, it has nothing to do with my ownership experience.

Even if I disagree with people's choices I don't comment as if they have chosen a stupid car. I respect everybody's choice. We all see value in a vehicle and buy.

I don't need endorsement from you or anybody to feel good about my purchase. The same way I don't criticize other's choice.

First of all, I have said nothing about your vehicle in particular. I have only posted about the Innova's facelift. So, I am not going to criticize you for your purchase because I understand that buying a car is an emotional decision. Congratulations by the way!

My comment on your post was specific to your rude tone. If you dont believe or accept that, its okay.

As you said... peace!

[extreme_torque]

Well instead of discrediting Toyota, credit them for the fact that even at this price people are willing to buy it and its got more to do with what the badge stands for and if it fulfills it. Also brings home the point that Innova is a having a free run of sorts in the market with the other makers seemingly incapable of launching an overall package like Innova.

[ahmad.007]

extreme_torque, brother no offence to you, but I want to elaborate the other side of story, from people who don't find the Innova a VFM preposition.

Innova is not even close to half an "overall" package.

Its a good/comfortable/spacious people mover for 14 lakh rs worth of money, but for 18 lakhs? Toyota can eat dust.

And for what should we credit Toyota? Maybe for being successful in fooling people in the name of "Reliability" and the heaviness of the 'T' badge. Im sorry, but I feel this "reliability" thing is overhyped and exaggerated. Even a Maruti 800 carb was an extremely reliable car, does it mean that we stick to carb and not upgrade to mpfi? Sorry, but if you are choosing to be reliable by incorporating simple old-skool tech atleast get the pricing right.
Times have changed, today majority of the cars are very reliable. Gone are the days when most cars developed problems every now and then and only the Toyotas stayed away from workshops. Its time Toyota, stop misusing your badge.

The problem right now is lack of any direct competition. There is frankly no rival that comes close to Innova. Hence the Innova is still selling in good numbers, and will continue to sell good, and Toyota will keep increasing the prices till it finds the sweet spot of maximum profit. This was not the case with the Etios twins, they got hammered badly by the competetive hatchback and sedan segment. Because in that segment people are smarter with their money.

[MaxTorque]

Toyota Innova is a reliable product for sure but IMO It's not a VFM product. Somehow the design of the upcoming Innova is not that impressive (At least for me). We need to wait and see how it's going fare in our market.

I have seen many of my dears and nears endorsing Toyota products in India citing their experience in abroad. But I used to remind them that Toyota India's product portfolio is totally different from their Global portfolio. Similarly our road conditions.

[tazmaan]

Well I had the 2007 G which was driven 1.7+ lac kms. I replaced it with the current model V in 2012 . I seriously feel I have made a mistake. The plastic feel cheaper especially the door panels and even the over all build quality. It has been driven 20k till date and I have a couple of rattles already and yesterday ABS failure light has turned on.

Now as a repeat customer of Innova I feel Innova was VFM back then now its day light robbery. The engine feels stressed on express way, noise seeps through to the cabin and it feels it wont last as much as the 1st generation. I have put a lot of money on this van thinking I will keep it for 5 years and I hope it lasts me 5 years without issues.

No more Innova at this price point for me. Should be cheaper by atleast 3 lacs.

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by ahmad.007

Its a good/comfortable/spacious people mover for 14 lakh rs worth of money, but for 18 lakhs? Toyota can eat dust.

And for what should we credit Toyota? Maybe for being successful in fooling people in the name of "Reliability" and the heaviness of the 'T' badge. Im sorry, but I feel this "reliability" thing is overhyped and exaggerated. Even a Maruti 800 carb was an extremely reliable car, does it mean that we stick to carb and not upgrade to mpfi? Sorry, but if you are choosing to be reliable by incorporating simple old-skool tech atleast get the pricing right.
Times have changed, today majority of the cars are very reliable. Gone are the days when most cars developed problems every now and then and only the Toyotas stayed away from workshops. Its time Toyota, stop misusing your badge.

I agree with your point of Toyota charging much more than what Innova actually offers. Innova is expensive, no doubt about it.

However, I do not agree with you on reliability part at all. Please look at the ownership threads and you will realize that so many people are facing issues/niggles with XUV and don't have to remind you Tata Aria stories at all. And if you look at the sales chart, it is consistently clocking higher numbers than competition, why? Please don't call it herd mentality. The reason is, it offers what the people are looking for, may be at higher price but along with piece of mind that no other competitor is offering.

Originally Posted by ahmad.007

The problem right now is lack of any direct competition. There is frankly no rival that comes close to Innova. Hence the Innova is still selling in good numbers, and will continue to sell good, and Toyota will keep increasing the prices till it finds the sweet spot of maximum profit.

I thought all the companies are here to do business and make money. No company is doing charity. If competition is not able to come up with product that is better than Innova, then it's not Toyota's problem.