[Turbokick]

I am not very sure how much Tata learned from the lukewarm success of Harrier and the product in Altroz has my doubts about the planning of the company.

First the great bits :
* Brilliant styling.
* Expected high standards of safety
* Robust build quality (as mentioned in the reviews)
* Space and comfort level at par
* Ride and handling balance
* Diesel engine seems competent.

What Tata should have considered(at launch) for the premium segment :
* NVH of 3 cyl and even that of the diesel engine (mentioned in some reviews)
* Performance to match the suspension
* Interior fit and finish not consistent
* Infotainment system not premium enough
* Lack of automatic (proper) at the launch.
* Feature list to distinguish it from the Swift/i10 nios segment (sunroof/6 airbags/6 speed gb etc)


I am afraid that next gen i20 may take the thunder out of altroz by getting most of the basics of premium hatchback segment right.


All said and done I expect Altroz to succeed in the market

[rajivtelang]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Thread title: "Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz".

What is a 'premium hatchback'?

By definition, premium goods are of a higher than usual quality and are often expensive.

In that context what is premium in the Altroz?

Better interiors than the lower segment of their own (or perhaps other brands) and comparable with cars features such as i20, Jazz, Baleno etc. Little bigger (I did not use the word better since it is not a measure for premium) dimensions than lower segment. And yeah most importantly some hype saying we have something "premium" like other brands so that customers will see clear comparison mapping across brands , another marketing gimmick to sell it at a higher cost. This is my definition of premium. But at the end a hatchback is a hatchback.

In my case safety is first choice for car selection and Tata is best in that case as of now. Tata cars are always spacious with great suspensions, a second winning point. Again looks are improving considerably and service appears getting better (yet to judge since my tiago is just 6 months old). Driveability of Tata cars is good and comparable to Maruti/Hyundai but scope for improvement is there. Whatever be the definition of "premium", I am voting for Tata cars considering these points.

PS: After driving the Tiago for 6 months I have started feeling a bit agitated in my Ertiga on bad roads based on the shocks entering in cabin. Altroz whether premium or not, will be at par with Tiago's suspensions if not better.

[RaghuVis]

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

I just hope Tata feels the pinch by listening to all the reviewers who are disappointed by Tata for not launching an automatic. In this day and age and especially in this segment, have that damn Auto ready ASAP. They have the momentum right now as people are talking about this car, Instagram is filled with its hashtags, so launch the automatic ASAP to pull in the urban folks who are tired of using the clutch in crazy B2B traffic. That's when the true premiumness will be realised.

You know what the worst part of all this is? They will always keep a gap of 8-9 months to launch an automatic version. Always. Never a smaller gap. Whether the model is a hit or not. That is just plain stupid. I wonder how the marketing team is able to fool the higher management every single time on this.
I sometimes wonder if it is the same set of people who work on manual and automatics that they can never overlap their work. We have not seen test mule of automatics before the manual for any car that TATA has launched in the last few years. How can your planning be so stupid.

[nikhilthegunner]

Hey mods, can we have a poll or something to see the overall initial reaction to the Altroz? On one side, many people are criticising the car for various reasons while on the other side, some are quite happy with what has been revealed.

Also, could we get the first impressions of the Bhpians who went for the media drive? Would like to know their view of the car too.

[FrodoOfTheShire]

Originally Posted by nikhilthegunner

Hey mods, can we have a poll or something to see the overall initial reaction to the Altroz? On one side, many people are criticising the car for various reasons while on the other side, some are quite happy with what has been revealed.

People who are happy with the Altroz are thinking objectively about the car and are very optimistic about the Altroz, just like Tata motors.

People who are criticising, are disappointed with the lack of an automatic at launch as well as absence of any stand out features which would differentiate Altroz from its competition.

Whatever we may say, Maruti Suzuki and Hyundai enjoy a very healthy reputation and trust from the Indian car buyers. This ensures that whatever cars these 2 companies launch, is readily accepted by the market in most cases. And to be fair, MSIL and Hyundai do their homework fairly well and usually come out all guns blazing with their new launches.

Unfortunately, Tata motors doesn't yet enjoy that kind of reputation and trust due to various factors which have been discussed on this forum in detail. Hence, they need to work doubly hard on their new launches. They cannot just look at the competition and launch a similar product. They need to launch better looking and safer cars (which they already are). They need to be 2 steps ahead of the competition in terms of features and specs, simply matching the competition won't be enough, and currently they're not even matching the competition with missing AT and other features. And then they would need to price their cars lower than their competitors.

This would definitely seem an unfair ask from Tata motors but unfortunately that's how it is.

[jailbird_fynix]

Originally Posted by gutsy

Well, just somewhere else, Indian Juggad is being used to address random rattling noise coming from showroom delivered vehicles. Indeed that's not termed as Half Baked product, rather its going to be COTY

Well, among the COTY nominations, when you compare all the faults of the 1st batch of the Harriers to a loose parcel tray in the Kia Seltos, it's kind of obvious why the Seltos has more than 50% of the votes and ~20 times the sales than that of the Harrier.

Now you tell us, which is the half baked initial product here - the Harrier or the Seltos?

[wheelguy]

Tata Altroz deliveries to begin by mid-February 2020.

Tata Motors will announce the pricing for the Altroz premium hatchback early next year. While the Altroz is expected to see a market launch in late January, we can confirm that the deliveries to customers will begin only in mid-February 2020. The company started accepting bookings for the Altroz on December 4, 2019, as reported by us earlier, and a quick check with dealers tells us that it’s the petrol-powered model that is gathering more interest.

Source

[gutsy]

Originally Posted by jailbird_fynix

Well, among the COTY nominations, when you compare all the faults of the 1st batch of the Harriers to a loose parcel tray in the Kia Seltos, it's kind of obvious why the Seltos has more than 50% of the votes and ~20 times the sales than that of the Harrier.

Now you tell us, which is the half baked initial product here - the Harrier or the Seltos?

If COTY nominations are the criteria then I believe, Hector, Venue should have been slaughtered by now.

And its not the rattling noise the only niggle, there are number of other problems as well with Seltos:

7 common problems with Kia Seltos is facing in India/

[trinity0114]

Originally Posted by jailbird_fynix

Now you tell us, which is the half baked initial product here - the Harrier or the Seltos?

Kia Seltos is the half baked product. While initial Harrier cars had niggles related to its infotainment system & some panel gaps, the seltos has fundamental problems like transmission heating up in b2b traffic, sagging rear suspension & these cant be addressed by any update at the service centre, also the parcel tray issue in a so called premium car apart from infotainment system issues.

The car is being lapped up dosent mean its perfect, sales are happening because of of the novelty factor of a new and fresh car + brand and also herd mentality.

[kiku007]

Thanks for the reply related to the 'Premium hatchback' term BHPians.

So the market leaders Maruti and Hyundai have successfully brought down standards and created a new low that's now considered to be the new 'premium hatchback' standard. Ten years back when the Skoda Fabia and Hyundai i20 were launched they were ahead in many areas in comparison to the competition.

I really feel bad for the customers these days. A decade-old VW Polo GT TSI is pretty much the best in terms of Engine-Transmission combo. A massively toned down Ford Figo/Freestyle is getting listed under "cars that punch over their weight". I can't even start to understand what's the one thing that's premium about the Maruti Baleno.

[drsingh]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Thanks for the reply related to the 'Premium hatchback' term BHPians.

So the market leaders Maruti and Hyundai have successfully brought down standards and created a new low that's now considered to be the new 'premium hatchback' standard. Ten years back, when the Skoda Fabia and Hyundai i20 were launched, they were ahead in many areas in comparison to the competition.

I feel bad for the customers these days. A decade-old VW Polo GT TSI is pretty much the best in terms of Engine-Transmission combo. A massively toned down Ford Figo/Freestyle is getting listed under "cars that punch over their weight." I can't even start to understand what's the one thing that's premium about the Maruti Baleno.

By definition 'premium' denotes 'elite' and 'exclusive'.
This is simply marketing hijacking words to change perception.

That is the essence of modern advertising.

If you have to label a product as premium, it probably isn't as premium it pretends to be.

Even the target consumers are looking for a 'premium' product to enhance status while it serves the mass market purpose of a family car.

They are not looking for an actual premium automobile to impress the ladies.

Except perhaps.............. middle-aged blokes buying red GT TSI's

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Thanks for the reply related to the 'Premium hatchback' term BHPians.

So the market leaders Maruti and Hyundai have successfully brought down standards and created a new low that's now considered to be the new 'premium hatchback' standard. Ten years back when the Skoda Fabia and Hyundai i20 were launched they were ahead in many areas in comparison to the competition.

I really feel bad for the customers these days. A decade-old VW Polo GT TSI is pretty much the best in terms of Engine-Transmission combo. A massively toned down Ford Figo/Freestyle is getting listed under "cars that punch over their weight". I can't even start to understand what's the one thing that's premium about the Maruti Baleno.

100% Agree with you. Premium hatchback is perhaps a car that charge you more for every feature it gives you. Like, Rear wash and Wipe is a "premium" feature, so you get it only in top variant of an already premium priced car. Or shark fin antenna, one inch bigger touch screen, 2 extra tweeters, or some features for super lazy people - like auto folding outside mirrors (which fold-unfold on their own when you switch-on / off the car, which otherwise would need a grand effort to push a button )

As for Baleno, Maybe the UV cut glass is the premium feature. Because otherwise, there is nothing premium in it.

[Reinhard]

I think its established unanimously beyond argument in this thread that the "Premium hatchback segment" doesn't have anything "premium" as such. Let's conclude that its just a segment name to distinguish from the segment below and above. Any further discussions about definition of premium cars should belong in a separate thread I feel.

Time to return to the discussion on topic of the thread I think. The Altroz.

[srvm]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Thanks for the reply related to the 'Premium hatchback' term BHPians.
.....
.... I can't even start to understand what's the one thing that's premium about the Maruti Baleno.

It's the price, of course!
How else do you distinguish Baleno from its lower priced siblings Swift, Ignis, (now) WagonR which share the same powertrains, switchgear etc.

[TROOPER]

I think we'd all agree that Tata is now proficient at shooting themselves in the foot. The 3 cylinder, no AT etc have been debated to death.

My only question, if we swapped the badge on the Altroz with a Hyundai, Honda or especially Toyota would there be such a debate?

Pretty sure everyone would rave about the build, and potential 5 star safety rating. People would argue to death that they would be willing to compromise the 'premium' for 'safety'.

Drive the car. See for yourself and then decide. Why always give Tata the short end of the stick?

Just because Tata has been VFM, mean they cannot call their cars premium?