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Old 4th January 2020, 11:23   #1321
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashvek3141 View Post
In this day and age, premium hatchback needs to be loaded to the gills with features, more so for a car coming from a brand like TATA......Just my thoughts here, nothing against the company or any of their customers. They definitely have a great potential, but only need to channel it in the right direction and most importantly at the right time.
Why Tata? Because they goofed up for over a decade, they become liable to give 'extra' features? I think it's time the Indian public started gaining some maturity. We want to emulate the west nearly on every aspect, but when it comes to responsibility, discipline and safety, that aspiration is nowhere to be seen.

The Indian spec Baleno and i20 would score 3 stars at best. The Altroz is pipped to gain a 5 star safety rating. Now if Tata is stupid enough to not get it crash tested at the earliest and market the hell out if, it's their issue.

If Maruti gives more features, then safety is compromised. Hyundai gives more features but they charge more, and they aren't Volvo wrt safety. What Tata does, is slot in between. There's no master of all product in the market. You have to make compromises with every product.

This whole argument that Tata should provide more features because they screwed up their brand image is as illogical as demanding Maruti to provide 6 airbags in their lower variants because they have been churning out tin cans.

What Tata needs to do is step up the reliability and the sales and service experience. Most of their cars are 85-90% there, just need to to round off the edges.
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Old 4th January 2020, 11:51   #1322
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by ashvek3141 View Post
Sigh! TATA is one company which has still not understood the market trend properly. Be it launching a half-baked product with niggles, no diesel ATs in SUVs, lacking in features in a premium hatchback, and what not. When the market is shifting towards petrol even in a compact SUV segment, these guys are planning a diesel performance hatch!
Firstly, as of now, the jtp is a product catered to a specific customer base, it isn't marketed alongside the Tiago as a variant, unlike the GT TSI ( I've seen many buy the TSI only because it has the smooth automatic and not for performance ), so even a diesel performance jtp will sell about as much units as a petrol jtp, and bring in good FE numbers at the end of the day.

Secondly, mind telling me what features is it lacking exactly? We all know where exactly Maruti makes compromises to make up for all their feature loading.
It has all the basic features, that you'd expect - auto ac, android auto and the like, and over the i20 and Baleno, it has auto headlamps and auto wipers both, cruise control, 90 degree doors, and specifically over the Baleno, it has good build quality.

Next gen i20 will be feature loaded obviously and it'll be pricey as well, hyundai doesn't compromise as much on build quality to accomodate features like Maruti but then they price their cars accordingly as well. Top end elite i20 is about 10 lacs in some cities, and this for a hatchback. Next gen i20 will easily be 10 lacs or even more than that on road.
If you see a fully loaded Altroz with a price tag of about 10-10.5 lacs, first thing you'd say is it's overpriced.
It's like a never ending cycle, because it's Tata, they're expected to price their cars dirt cheap and then provide a hundred segment first features.

Last edited by SaiSW : 4th January 2020 at 11:55.
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Old 4th January 2020, 12:34   #1323
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

TATA’s 45X concept model was displayed in auto expo 2018, had they launched as per initial plan around August/September 2019 things could have been different. I personally feel they are very late to the premium hatchback segment. I really hope this car is a success for TATA for all the efforts they are taking.
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Old 4th January 2020, 13:35   #1324
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TROOPER View Post
...
This whole argument that Tata should provide more features because they screwed up their brand image is as illogical as demanding Maruti to provide 6 airbags in their lower variants because they have been churning out tin cans.

What Tata needs to do is step up the reliability and the sales and service experience. Most of their cars are 85-90% there, just need to to round off the edges.
Agree with you sir. I guess the market is the best just for any product. Let’s see how Altroz fairs in the premium hatch segment with the current and upcoming rivals. At the end of the day what matters is how the masses have accepted the product as a whole. If people are cribbing about Maruti’s poor safety, Hyundai’s pricey cars, then they wouldn’t have been the top 2 players here. Surely TATA has come a long way and is surely appreciated in many ways; but the point here is to win the spot in the market it has to have that additional points to stand out!
Well and just about the pricing, their latest offering the Harrier is not priced so well & is also one of reasons it bombed (or is on the verge of it).

P. S.: Again, no offence to the TATA vehicle owners or the brand please.

Note from Support: Please do no quote full-length posts when responding. It hampers readability for mobile users.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 4th January 2020 at 14:31. Reason: Trimmed quote.
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Old 4th January 2020, 16:33   #1325
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

I'm excited for an Altroz diesel JTP. The 110 bhp diesel from the Nexon, maybe tuned for 5 or so more horsepower, a torque output of 260+nm and you have a car that'll set the highways on fire. That much torque on such a light car will be fantastic, just to remember the heavier creta which is several segments above, has the same torque figure.

Yes a turbo petrol with dual clutch will be even more exciting, because of the inherent characteristics of a turboP, like holding the revs etc. but the important point is a BS6 turbo diesel jtp Altroz will make it more accessible to the customers, since it's guarented it'll always return double digit FE numbers.
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Old 5th January 2020, 08:49   #1326
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

@TROOPER @SaiSW you guys have written what i wanted to write, i'm fed up of people nitpicking on TATA, instead of appreciating their cars which have superior build quality and good riding dynamics and all around good features, all people see are flaws, which aren't there in the first place!

I am still searching for the features which the Altroz lack as compared to the segment, but maybe there must some hidden ones which maruti/Hyundai is having only visible to their customers, maybe like platform 9 3/4 . People should be rooting for a home brand, show some love for our Indian brand!

Instead of looking at the half empty glass, people should look at the half full one(which is like 90% full by the way) , look at what we are getting instead of what's missing , for a change search for the extra features Altroz or TATA products are having .

Just my thoughts, people are free to buy whatever they want it's their money at the end of the day
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Old 5th January 2020, 11:54   #1327
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesyeswe View Post
Instead of looking at the half empty glass, people should look at the half full one(which is like 90% full by the way) , look at what we are getting instead of what's missing , for a change search for the extra features Altroz or TATA products are having.
It's happening the other way round.

If it is Maruti, let's ignore the build quality for it comes with a Maruti tag which is synonymous with many things positive.

If it is a Toyota, let us ignore the high premium they charge and lesser features they offer for the asking price because it gives us reliability.

Hyundai, oh it gives us many features and good interiors, let us ignore other shortcomings if any.

MG Hector, since SAIC owns MG, Baojun 530 becomes an MG car by just pasting MG badge. Let us ignore the fact that it doesn't have any of the attributes of MG brand and accept it because it offers boat loads of features coupled with real estate at a competitive price. Toyota owns Lexus, so can a regular Toyota car become a Lexus by just pasting a Lexus badge without giving anything associated with Lexus?Will anyone accept that? There is enough differentiation between Lexus ES 350 and Toyota Camry, but what does Hector had over Baojun 530 to justify MG badge? Though it is legally okay, it is clear case of manipulation.

Coming to Tata, let us ignore the luxurious ride quality, good build, and VFM pricing, and just look at what Tata is not offering?

This is showing us the power of impressions and more so of first impressions. First impressions are so strong that they will not let you acknowledge the current changes and improvements/deteriorations.

Last edited by wheelguy : 5th January 2020 at 11:55.
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Old 5th January 2020, 12:13   #1328
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashvek3141 View Post
In this day and age, premium hatchback needs to be loaded to the gills with features, more so for a car coming from a brand like TATA. Fr ex. the upcoming i20 will be having the sunroof, rear discs, connectivity and all the other convenience features for sure. Even the 4 year old Baleno has a good list of features than the Altroz. As a matter of fact Altroz isn’t a a car from Maruti to just sell on the brand name per say. It needs to have ‘that’ extra to beat the rest of the competition and stand apart. TATAs have even messed up with the basic petrol mill in the Altroz. For a premium hatchback, their petrol motor will and should be the one that will bring all the money.
In a nutshell, Altroz just has what the current competition is offering, but IMHO that wouldn’t be enough to prove its case. You cannot sell any product just on good looks.
.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by TROOPER View Post
Why Tata? Because they goofed up for over a decade, they become liable to give 'extra' features? I think it's time the Indian public started gaining some maturity. We want to emulate the west nearly on every aspect, but when it comes to responsibility, discipline and safety, that aspiration is nowhere to be seen.

The Indian spec Baleno and i20 would score 3 stars at best. The Altroz is pipped to gain a 5 star safety rating. Now if Tata is stupid enough to not get it crash tested at the earliest and market the hell out if, it's their issue.
....
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaiSW View Post
....
Secondly, mind telling me what features is it lacking exactly? We all know where exactly Maruti makes compromises to make up for all their feature loading.
It has all the basic features, that you'd expect - auto ac, android auto and the like, and over the i20 and Baleno, it has auto headlamps and auto wipers both, cruise control, 90 degree doors, and specifically over the Baleno, it has good build quality.

Next gen i20 will be feature loaded obviously and it'll be pricey as well, hyundai doesn't compromise as much on build quality to accomodate features like Maruti but then they price their cars accordingly as well. Top end elite i20 is about 10 lacs in some cities, and this for a hatchback. Next gen i20 will easily be 10 lacs or even more than that on road.
If you see a fully loaded Altroz with a price tag of about 10-10.5 lacs, first thing you'd say is it's overpriced.
It's like a never ending cycle, because it's Tata, they're expected to price their cars dirt cheap and then provide a hundred segment first features.

My 2 cents on this topic.
Not all customers have the moolah for topmost variant. Many end up buying mid variant or one-below top variant in this segment. And most of the loaded-to-gills features are typically available only in topmost variant. (In Elite i20 for instance, adjustable rear headrests are available only in Dual-tone Sportz and Asta; Rear wash/wiper is available only in Asta and so on)

Imagine, now Altroz with its supposed USPs: Good build quality, Safety, 90 deg opening doors, good ride quality and handling, steering with nice feedback (all based on recent cars launched from Tata since Bolt/Zest) - all of these are likely to be available from base variant since they are likely to be common in all variants. Now, for a typical customer (hopefully one who has an open mind towards choice of brand) isn't that a wonderful thing to have?
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Old 5th January 2020, 12:33   #1329
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Waiting for Mods to ask you all to stick to the threads topic !
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Old 5th January 2020, 14:02   #1330
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesyeswe View Post
@TROOPER @SaiSW you guys have written what i wanted to write, i'm fed up of people nitpicking on TATA, instead of appreciating their cars which have superior build quality and good riding dynamics and all around good features, all people see are flaws, which aren't there in the first place!
Afer initial ownership experience of my new Nexon XZA+ which i bought for my parents (because they arent comfortable driving bigger cars at home), I fully agree with you. I had bought Tata Safari Dicor in 2010 which was full of niggling issues and sold in 2013 to upgrade to Pajero Sport. But, these new generation Tata cars are totally acceptable in fit/finish and overall quality levels (maybe not as good as global brands) but at the same time very desirable (than the similarly priced global brands) in their mechanical specifications/performance. My other two cars are Koleos and Pajero Sport which are priced thrice than the Nexon but still Nexon feels pleasant and doesnt feel like a big step down when I switch between them. I will even say that had Tata provided this gem with torque converter AT, this car would have been comparable to other big cars in terms of everyday driving experience (ofcourse it cant match Pajero Sport / Koleos for highway cruising and off roading).

So, i have even higher expectations and confidence in Altroz now.

Last edited by 46TheDoctor : 5th January 2020 at 14:07.
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Old 6th January 2020, 14:07   #1331
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Heard from a very reliable birdie inside, that the sales team trainings have started at the Tata plant. Sales teams from dealers have started visiting the plant for 2-3 days of inside out product & sales training.

I hope this training is better than whatever has been happening for previous products.
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Old 6th January 2020, 14:11   #1332
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Heard from a very reliable birdie inside, that the sales team trainings have started at the Tata plant. Sales teams from dealers have started visiting the plant for 2-3 days of inside out product & sales training.

I hope this training is better than whatever has been happening for previous products.
For some reason I have always felt that TML hire sales resources as a CSR activity. Their basic English proficiency is also poor.

Not sure why dealers are not given some mandates like education qualifications for a Sales representative or certain kind of expertise or training certificates to be undergone. After all they are the one who can win or break a deal impacting the bottom line of the business.

My observation is strictly from experience with dealers in Mumbai and Pune. May be better or worse in other parts of the country.
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Old 6th January 2020, 14:16   #1333
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Not sure why dealers are not given some mandates like education qualifications for a Sales representative or certain kind of expertise or training certificates to be undergone. After all they are the one who can win or break a deal impacting the bottom line of the business.
Its actually same across many brands. The mandates and thresholds are certainly laid down by the car maker. But then the margin is what the dealer decides. A polished mechanical engineer with excellent command over English won't take a job at a low paying car showroom. That's the problem. Also - the sales staff has the job-loyalty lower than an average IT engineer off late. They jump ship every few months & so aren't really too interested in knowing much about the product being sold at all.

The sales guys are only interested in knowing what add-ons they can sell to a customer to win incentives. Not knowing MORE about the car to impress the customer. I have had identical experiences in multiple brands from Mahindra to Hyundai in Pune.
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Old 6th January 2020, 14:23   #1334
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Its actually same across many brands.
True whatever you have mentioned. But if I had to rate the sales staff of different brands then Tata and Mahindra would come last. Look at the way MS has decked up their sales strategy by selling same cars under a different brand 'Nexa' where you see sales guys in good uniform and tabs. They may not be well educated but first impressions are good. Whereas in Tata and Mahindra, most struggle to speak well with customers, leaving aside the product knowledge.

Tata is making everything better with their products, if they have some dedicated efforts in improving their customer facing resources then you may never know they may just outdo MS.
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Old 6th January 2020, 15:06   #1335
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Heard from a very reliable birdie inside, that the sales team trainings have started at the Tata plant. Sales teams from dealers have started visiting the plant for 2-3 days of inside out product & sales training.

I hope this training is better than whatever has been happening for previous products.
I can confirm this thanks to my sales guys whatsapp statuses

Altroz and Nexon EV training
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