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Old 4th March 2019, 19:36   #931
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Good to hear that! Compared to our other home grown manufacturer who can't even get 1 test drive car in time, Mahindra seems to be working with lightening speed in not only getting the test car out but repairing it as well!
That’s the ‘XUV legacy’. As the product is launched, Mahindra has officialy entered into the beta testing state. Now customers do the testing, find issues and Mahindra fix the issues.

Last edited by pavi : 4th March 2019 at 19:37.
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Old 4th March 2019, 20:24   #932
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

The XUV300 looks like a risky bet to make for buyers on several fronts:

1. XUV300 leaves the door wide open to the competition instead of trying to land a killer punch. XUV300's extra features are at a very high price, leaving easy opportunity for Suzuki and Tata to add superloaded versions. Brezza can also add petrol models. On the other hand, Mahindra cannot add the practicality of additional space to the XUV.

XUV300 risks becoming the fastest new car to see discounts. Who knows we may see another Ecosport type price cut across the XUV300 range.

2. The automatic, when it comes, will make XUV300 even more expensive.

3. We are at a unique time in the market-
a. Every existing competitor is going to see upgrades in the next 6 months as the new regulations set in.
AND
b. There are new ones coming from accomplished players. For example the baby Creta from Hyundai is certainly going to be upmarket and polished, without the dated dashboard and the silly white interiors of the XUV300. New Duster, new SUVs from Kia and MG and others...

4. The white seats, cramped boot, defensiveness on 'kitna deti hai', and pricing vs features show that Mahindra still doesn't get the urban mini SUV buyer. On top of that, Mahindra service stations have no real experience dealing with the premium buyer in urban markets. Be prepared for a round of negative feedback just as the competition ups the game.

5. A new product with new parts and whole new supply chain takes time to settle down. At Mahindra, wthout the expereince of manufacturing cars the way Suzuki and Hyundai do, these are problems are more likely to reach the end customer rather than be caught during product development or factory quality checks. The shockers are the beginning. There'll be more niggles.

And what is the early buyer's compensation for trusting an unproven Mahindra product? A high price! It's not as if Mahindra were offering a killer deal with the XUV300. So, does it not make sense to see what 2019 produces with so much change coming to the market in the next few months?

But there is one lesson others need to learn from Tata and Mahindra. Turbo Petrol. As diesel fades away, Maruti and Hyundai and others need to have affordable performance for the petrol buyers for the next few years before the market starts going electric. Even Tata should consider upgrading th e petrol engine in the Nexon. Get a smooth 4 cyclinder with VGT and higher boost, even if it is 1.2L. The current 3pot is good, but not good enough.
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Old 4th March 2019, 21:10   #933
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy View Post
A recall will be ideal, but a suspension calibration at the factory will be much better than just replacing parts at the dealer level.
There's nothing like suspension calibration at factory. Once the spec of shocks, springs and rubber bushes are decided, it all comes to individual parts. Suspension parts are easy to replace (compared to engine or transmission internal parts) and I have replaced many suspension parts myself.

The only advantage in factory is with regard to toe adjustment as the equipment is better maintained / calibrated. For McPherson strut type of suspension, camber and caster are defined by part dimensions and cannot be adjusted.
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Old 5th March 2019, 16:44   #934
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
The Nexon XZA+ is listed at 13L OTR Delhi.
=====
Sadly M&M has neither of the above.
I would advise against it. GTO has pointed out some problems with the highway stability of the XUV and seems like the dynamics isn't sorted out for the car, unlike the Nexon, which is pretty decent.

For such an unsure situation, I recommend you wait for the official review from Team BHP if you're adamant about the XUV.

Last edited by Jaggu : 5th March 2019 at 17:07. Reason: Trimming large quote. Thanks.
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Old 5th March 2019, 17:26   #935
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

I happened to see this XUV 300 ad on my Mobile FB app. People are tearing it up, to put it mildly. It becomes immediately apparent to everyone that it is overpriced. Like I had remarked on this thread earlier, Mahindra should have rather launched a separate luxury brand. I'm surprised Mahindra fails to grasp the pitfalls of heedless brand extensions; they had cleverly launched the Scorpio by carefully masking the "Mahindra" name since that name exuded certain agrarian connotations...right now with the XUV 300, it's a case of "why pay this much for a mini SUV from Mahindra?"
The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs-capture_20190305171353.png

The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs-capture_20190305171410.png
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Old 5th March 2019, 17:38   #936
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

It's already priced on higher side. After launch of AMT, prices will go up by 50-60k and then after introduction of AT, it'll go in the Harrier territory(at least at my place). Why buy XUV300 if you can buy Harrier which will also give you the 'badi gadiwali feeling'. What were they smoking at the time of features distribution and pricing? Because one can't buy W6 as it doesn't have all the necessary features and also can't go to W8 because it doesn't justify its price tag. This is going to be a disaster from Mahindra and they don't seem to be listening to customers in this aspect. Provide less features less but price it lower Mahindra if you're reading this.
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Old 5th March 2019, 17:46   #937
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
this TSB is asking the rear shock absorber assembly to be replaced, in both petrol and diesel cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
*Update*

The car was picked up by Mahindra this morning. 2 engineers from Mahindra Research Valley had been flown in to inspect the car. Ph03n!x & Dr. Naren got it bang on:

Our brand new test car apparently has two defective rear dampers / shock absorbers. The rear-left in particular is worse, I've been told (refer to my earlier comment on the rear-left of the car losing it easily).

Mahindra says that a particular batch of dampers was defective and it has issued the TSB that Ph03n!x mentioned to all dealerships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaiSW View Post
I would advise against it. GTO has pointed out some problems with the highway stability of the XUV and seems like the dynamics isn't sorted out for the car, unlike the Nexon, which is pretty decent.
It'd be prudent to hold our decisions or opinions until we have an update from GTO - I have quoted a few posts that followed his initial message about the high-speed handling capabilities of the 3OO.

While fact remains that a new car out of the factory should ideally not have such issues, M&M have responded through a TSB to all dealers, as well as have reached out to Team BHP team to fix the car - let's see how it goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by locusjag View Post
The last part of this image is something I totally agree with - the car is so light coloured inside that it'll be dirty before it reaches home (or the temple!) from the showroom!

Last edited by ph03n!x : 5th March 2019 at 17:56.
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Old 5th March 2019, 18:00   #938
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyakart View Post
@Gagzie Did you get a chance to check the high speed ride quality in XUV 300, I have checked it yesterday, and it looks like a bit bouncy around 90 kmph, Just wanted to get some thought about it..
Didn’t anyone notice this before GTO’s feedback?
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Old 5th March 2019, 20:03   #939
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
It'd be prudent to hold our decisions or opinions until we have an update from GTO - I have quoted a few posts that followed his initial message about the high-speed handling capabilities of the 3OO.
Yes, exactly. I actually have a sort of soft spot for great products from Indian manufacturers and it's only fair we give M&M some time to rectify the situation. Maybe it really was just a minor mechanical issue, and we would have commited a grave sin if we had started blaming M&M left and right for con in the XUV that wasn't really a con, like some people did with Tata deleting features, not knowing it was to make space for safety improvements which would eventually culminate in the Nexon being the first Indian made car to get a perfect rating from GlobalNCAP. Once words leave our mouths, we can't really take them back, can we?

We are waiting for further updates from you, GTO. I am also in the market for a compact SUV under 13 lacs, so whether or not I consider the variants of the XUV that fit in my budget is entirely dependent on your posts in this thread and/or the Team-BHP review.
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Old 5th March 2019, 20:14   #940
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I have booked a w8 (o) diesel. @GTO Awaiting your feedback post driving the diesel variant and also the update (if any) on if M&M repaired the vehicle and sent it back for a TD. Literally sitting at the edge of my seat currently
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Old 5th March 2019, 21:45   #941
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by guptad42 View Post
1. XUV300 leaves the door wide open to the competition instead of trying to land a killer punch. XUV300's extra features are at a very high price, leaving easy opportunity for Suzuki and Tata to add superloaded versions. Brezza can also add petrol models. On the other hand, Mahindra cannot add the practicality of additional space to the XUV.
Petrol Brezza - I have read in many auto portals and also via friends and colleagues I came to know about waiting periods of current Brezza, which is somewhere around 3-6 months depending on your location and model. I do not think Maruthi is equipped to roll out a petrol version any soon. So this will not have any impact on XUV 300 sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guptad42 View Post
XUV300 risks becoming the fastest new car to see discounts. Who knows we may see another Ecosport type price cut across the XUV300 range.

2. The automatic, when it comes, will make XUV300 even more expensive.

3. We are at a unique time in the market-
a. Every existing competitor is going to see upgrades in the next 6 months as the new regulations set in.
AND
b. There are new ones coming from accomplished players. For example the baby Creta from Hyundai is certainly going to be upmarket and polished, without the dated dashboard and the silly white interiors of the XUV300. New Duster, new SUVs from Kia and MG and others...
New regulations will be in kicking in from 2020, Mahindra has already acknowledged that they are phasing away slow moving models (nuvosport, verito vibe etc..) and will migrate to new norms only vehicles which are selling more than 1000+ units a month.

XUV300 risks becoming the fastest new car to see discounts - Purely fictional assumptions. Everyone including myself hated TUV 300's awful boxy design when it first came out, but now I proudly own one. The design will grow in to people. Like it or hate it, you just can't ignore it. I had seen a new XUV 300 on road today (Maybe a TD vehicle), and it was head turner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guptad42 View Post
4. The white seats, cramped boot, defensiveness on 'kitna deti hai', and pricing vs features show that Mahindra still doesn't get the urban mini SUV buyer. On top of that, Mahindra service stations have no real experience dealing with the premium buyer in urban markets. Be prepared for a round of negative feedback just as the competition ups the game.
Is there any substantial evidence to support this statement you made? Do you own a Mahindra? After every visit to MASS, customer gets call from Mahindra's office asking for feedback and rating on various aspect of the service workshop and experience. They will ask you to rate from a scale of 1-10, and if you rate 8 or below to any question, it will be directed to MASS, and they are forced to address the customers concern, and they will follow up with you until the query is addressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guptad42 View Post
5. A new product with new parts and whole new supply chain takes time to settle down. At Mahindra, wthout the expereince of manufacturing cars the way Suzuki and Hyundai do, these are problems are more likely to reach the end customer rather than be caught during product development or factory quality checks. The shockers are the beginning. There'll be more niggles.
FCA has recently issued a recall for the Jeep Compass to update powertrain control module (PCM) software. They recalled 11,002 units. In july 2018 Suzuki recalled 1,279 units of new Swift and Dzire models to inspect for a possible fault in the airbag controller units, in Feb'19 Maruti recalled 3,757 units of Baleno to inspect ABS software. No one is perfect.
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Old 5th March 2019, 22:05   #942
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000 View Post
Petrol Brezza - I have read in many auto portals and also via friends and colleagues I came to know about waiting periods of current Brezza, which is somewhere around 3-6 months depending on your location and model. I do not think Maruthi is equipped to roll out a petrol version any soon. So this will not have any impact on XUV 300 sales.
Sorry for
Couple of weeks I visited Pratham Motors in ORR Banaglore and enquired about Breeza and the sales man told me most of colors are readily available and he has offered 10-15K discount without any negotiations.

Please check http://www.autopunditz.com/news/the-...nts-marketing/. Maruti is offering 45k discount on Brezza.
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Old 5th March 2019, 22:13   #943
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by skumar View Post
Sorry for
Couple of weeks I visited Pratham Motors in ORR Banaglore and enquired about Breeza and the sales man told me most of colors are readily available and he has offered 10-15K discount without any negotiations.

Please check http://www.autopunditz.com/news/the-...nts-marketing/. Maruti is offering 45k discount on Brezza.
Did you get a confirmation on if they are 2018 make or 2019 make? Most of the manufacturers offer discounts on last year models in December time and they continue the trend till March until they clear out their old stock.
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Old 6th March 2019, 00:27   #944
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

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Originally Posted by SaiSW View Post
Maybe it really was just a minor mechanical issue, and we would have commited a grave sin if we had started blaming M&M left and right
While I appreciate the reaction of M&M to GTO's post, I still feel this is an opportunity that they missed -
  • What if I didn't go for my XUV5OO service, didn't see the TSB at the service centre?
  • What if Dr.Naren was on a break, didn't check TBHP?
  • What if it was a long weekend or something, and M&M folks didn't read GTO's post about the handling at speeds until a couple of days later?
The outcome would have been drastically different, right? We may not decide the success or failure of any car, but we are definitely influencers.

Instead, if M&M had reached out proactively to TBHP, explained about this issue - even vaguely - and taken steps? Proactively? The TSB was right there at the service centre, for a new car factory-dispatched for end-customer sale hardly days back. Why should they wait till an influential forum talk about it before reacting?

We are not laymen - we understand that even at 6Sigma, there can be more than 3 defects in a million. But what sets you apart will be how you deal with the defect once you learn about it - over here, M&M learnt about it and released a TSB - but didn't talk to TBHP about it before GTO's post.

And that is a missed opportunity.
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Old 6th March 2019, 02:58   #945
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Default Re: The Mahindra XUV300, aka Ssangyong Tivoli. Edit: Launched @ 7.9 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000 View Post
Petrol Brezza - I have read in many auto portals and also via friends and colleagues I came to know about waiting periods of current Brezza, which is somewhere around 3-6 months depending on your location and model. I do not think Maruthi is equipped to roll out a petrol version any soon. So this will not have any impact on XUV 300 sales.
Maruti Suzuki had a production capacity of 17.5Lac cars last year. Then they added first line in Gujarat for 2.5Lac more last year. And this year end of Jan - hardly a month ago - the second Suzuki line went live with 2.5Lac additional capacity. These are published numbers. Go check.

They are shifting Baleno and Swift production there, freeing up Gurgaon/Manesar capacity. We will see a renewed assault on the market from Suzuki. And, Suzuki knows that sales success often needs a festival season attack in India.

And nobody disputes Tata's capacity to get more Nexons to the market if they can push the sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000 View Post
XUV300 risks becoming the fastest new car to see discounts - Purely fictional assumptions. Everyone including myself hated TUV 300's awful boxy design when it first came out, but now I proudly own one. The design will grow in to people. Like it or hate it, you just can't ignore it. I had seen a new XUV 300 on road today (Maybe a TD vehicle), and it was head turner.
This is not an assumption, it is an opinion. Just like you have your opinions.

My opinion is based on the fact that Mahindra CEO is on record saying he wants large volumes out of xuv300 because this is Mahindra's comeback SUV after losing market to Suzuki, Tata, Hyundai and Ford. I simply believe the xuv300 pricing will not sustain the volumes in such a competitive market. It does not mean the product is bad. The price positioning is too high.

In the car business if you can't get the volumes you had planned for, the development and fixed costs leave you hefty losses. Even supplier prices for parts are often variable based on volume. So, you find the car maker trying to push sales through discounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000 View Post
Is there any substantial evidence to support this statement you made? Do you own a Mahindra? After every visit to MASS, customer gets call from Mahindra's office asking for feedback and rating on various aspect of the service workshop and experience. They will ask you to rate from a scale of 1-10, and if you rate 8 or below to any question, it will be directed to MASS, and they are forced to address the customers concern, and they will follow up with you until the query is addressed.
Yes, my dad used to have a Mahindra jeep and there is a xuv500 in the family.
Yes, Mahindra service leaves a lot to be desired for the kind of customer they are chasing now. Apps and feedback forms let you fix problems after they occur, they don't change the actual service culture overnight.

And this problem of lack of urban car service experience is not unique to Mahindra. Tatas have faced the same problem. It has taken multiple years and several good products like Zest, Tiago, Nexon for the urban car buyer to start buying Tata cars. Long after the products improved, the service experience was still lacking. Even today, it does not match Toyota, Suzuki or Hyundai. Mahindra will need time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000 View Post
FCA has recently issued a recall for the Jeep Compass to update powertrain control module (PCM) software. They recalled 11,002 units. In july 2018 Suzuki recalled 1,279 units of new Swift and Dzire models to inspect for a possible fault in the airbag controller units, in Feb'19 Maruti recalled 3,757 units of Baleno to inspect ABS software. No one is perfect.
Read what I said. That new products and new parts have such issues. Just that mature makers like Suzuki and Hyundai catch more of the problems during product and vendor development and very few reach the end customers.

And did you notice something in the data you quoted? Check Suzuki's recall/inspect numbers against the volume they sell. You'll figure out how small the percentages are. And how quickly they tamp these down to control limits. It actually proves my point.

And please never quote FCA and Jeep if you want examples of good quality. After years of attempts to improve, they are still much worse that all of their major competition in product quality. See the JDPower numbers.
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