[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Any suggestions how to avoid this situation. Next time I dart across too when I am this close to the signal? I wonder what the rule book says about this? Should we go ahead or stop?

I will only talk about the rule book. It should ideally say when vehicle is stopped or Red light is on, the vehicle is to be well behind the solid line. Hence that picture (and your video) will not help you in the court if you decide to appeal.

How to avoid? - There is a common signage i come across in Dubai that says 'Do not enter intersection if exit is not clear'. In this dashcam (IF this were in Dubai) the car should not be caught standing or moving after while line when signal is Red. Straight big time fine and black points. Ideally to be safe and avoid fine one should brake in green if there is a jam ahead, cars behind will understand and be patient too. But in India, rules are fluid.

Edit - Noticed it was near that Mulund Airoli flyover is it? Mulund-W (down town, very near this flyover) was my summer vacation home in 80s and 90s.

PS -
For the uninitiated, these last few posts can be actually funny "I stopped on zebra, or beyond white line and zebra under red, but why did I get a fine". Dont get me wrong Sumeet, I understand it as a driver on Bangalore roads for many years. But for a westerner he just cannot wrap his head around the question.

[sumeethaldankar]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Any response to your email as yet? (Do remember to check your spam folder too)

Got the mail today have posted below.

Originally Posted by StrykerEV05

I received a Challan on this same place 4 weeks back. I saw the red light and stopped, a Bolero Camper behind me, crashed into me
Ii

This is double blow on top of a accident. So sorry this happened to you.

Originally Posted by KL01toKA03

I think you should have continued ahead if all the following statements are true:

This is what I plan to do next time.

Originally Posted by svsantosh

I will only talk about the rule book.
Edit - Noticed it was near that Mulund Airoli flyover is it? Mulund-W (down town, very near this flyover) was my summer vacation home in 80s and 90s.

.

I actually know why I got fined but what wanted to know from Bhpians how to avoid this in the future.


Had posted a video on youtube for better perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qGA24yCgyQ

Today only just a few hours ago got below reply in mail.

<multimediacell.traffic@mahapolice.gov.in>
To:
sumeet@..com

Thu, Jul 6 at 1:02 PM

Respected Sir/Madam,

We are pleased to inform you, that we have launched an online Grievance Module to take care of all your complaints.

You are hereby requested to download the Mumtrafficapp from Playstore or Apple Store & raise your complaints on the Mobile application- MumTrafficApp.

Grievances raised will be serviced depending on the nature of the issues raised.

We hereby assure you of providing you with the best of services and early redressal of issues raised.

https://mahatrafficechallan.gov.in/M...0f09f412373262

Regards,
Police Inspector,
Multimedia Cell,
Mumbai Traffic Police,
Worli, Mumbai 30

Will check if that app/link and see if it helps.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

How to avoid? - There is a common signage i come across in Dubai that says 'Do not enter intersection if exit is not clear'. In this dashcam (IF this were in Dubai) the car should not be caught standing or moving after while line when signal is Red. Straight big time fine and black points. Ideally to be safe and avoid fine one should brake in green if there is a jam ahead, cars behind will understand and be patient too. But in India, rules are fluid.


PS -
For the uninitiated, these last few posts can be actually funny "I stopped on zebra, or beyond white line and zebra under red, but why did I get a fine". Dont get me wrong Sumeet, I understand it as a driver on Bangalore roads for many years. But for a westerner he just cannot wrap his head around the question.

The problem arises when Western rules are blindly applied in developing countries. Many of these rules cannot be applied due to the sheer number of road users. Like can you implement a fine for Jay walking in India?

In this specific case, the person has explained why he had to stop on the zebra crossing and it was a perfectly logical reason. Ideally once he submits his response to the automated ticket, it should be reversed. Calling the rules fluid in India is again a misnomer.

[sagaranjos]

You should have moved on as the signal is irrelevant once you have crossed the white line. (Plus you have dashcam footage to prove it)
Once you stopped on the zebra crossing, you are actually breaking the rule.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by sagaranjos

You should have moved on as the signal is irrelevant once you have crossed the white line. (Plus you have dashcam footage to prove it)
Once you stopped on the zebra crossing, you are actually breaking the rule.

Is it really so simple? I was recently driving in Bombay, outside Churchgate station, and my signal was green, but there were pedestrians crossing the road nevertheless. I and my fellow motorists tried our best to wait for them to move on, but the signal turned red while we were waiting for them to finish crossing on our green signal. Now guess what, we were bang on the zebra crossing. And we couldn't move forward either since the vehicles from another road were passing, plus of course pedestrians merrily continued crossing.

Now kindly advise if we should have continued moving on, since as you say the signal was irrelevant, should we just have ignored the vehicles and the pedestrians and dashed into them?

Its never so simple is it, else we would have taken our call and wouldn't be discussing it on this forum, no?

[Clown Prince]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Attachment 2469115
What should I have done in this case? Should I have jumped the line and tailed the last vehicle and crossed the line even when the signal was red?

You did the right thing but as per law you should have kept on moving. Our law is a bit tricky in this aspect. It's better to stop in green to prevent challan but our traffic is not that understanding of situation.

Originally Posted by StrykerEV05

I received a Challan on this same place 4 weeks back. I saw the red light and stopped... Got the response to this that my dispute has been rejected and I have to pay the fine

Sir you are not wrong and don't need to pay a single penny. Challenge the Challan in court. Don't pay it online. Pay it in court and challenge it to magistrate before making any payment. Only downside is the wastage of time.

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Is it really so simple? I was recently driving in Bombay, outside Churchgate station, and my signal was green, but there were pedestrians crossing the road nevertheless. I and my fellow motorists tried our best to wait for them to move on, but the signal turned red while we were waiting for them to finish crossing on our green signal. Now guess what, we were bang on the zebra crossing. And we couldn't move forward either since the vehicles from another road were passing, plus of course pedestrians merrily continued crossing.

Now kindly advise if we should have continued moving on, since as you say the signal was irrelevant, should we just have ignored the vehicles and the pedestrians and dashed into them?

Its never so simple is it, else we would have taken our call and wouldn't be discussing it on this forum, no?

In your scenario, you can't get a Challan even if you are on Zebra Crossing. Even if you get one it can be waived by challenging it.
Our law is not simple and I fully agree with you on that point. All this ambiguity leads to further confusion.

[sswaroop]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Attachment 2469115
So I received a challan for my Swift today. I was taking a right turn towards Airoli from the eastern and traffic was slow due to a pothole and the signal turned red as I was traversing the zebra crossing and decided to stop. Got this gift from the police. What should I have done in this case? Should I have jumped the line and tailed the last vehicle and crossed the line even when the signal was red? I have already paid the fine for now.

As others have mentioned, you should have actually gone ahead since the signal was green at the pedestrian crossing. The orange part of the signal if for vehicles to go through which are still crossing. It seems stopping beyond the line was the issue here. If you had gone through and got the fine, you could have shown your dashcam footage video and photo that it was green at the crossing when you crossed it.

When I'm in bumper to bumper traffic and if the signal has been green for a while, I anticipate it'll turn red and be on the slower side and be ready to apply the brakes. Even at higher speeds of say 30-40kmph on relatively empty roads, I'm ready to brake on orange, if there is no one behind following. If someone is following fairly closely, I go through the intersection on orange so as to avoid getting rear ended. (Although got cheated once by the cops here who caught me crossing on signal changing from green to red directly at 40-45kmph and that signal clearly didn't have an orange light )

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by sagaranjos

You should have moved on as the signal is irrelevant once you have crossed the white line.

Disagree fully with this view. Once a signal has changed, you must not move ahead and obstruct traffic which has right of way.

The fact is that traffic rules in India are the same as those everywhere else in the world - you can enter a junction (including a pedestrian crossing) only if you are clear you can exit the junction before the signal changes. Of course this rule is followed only in breach. And you may have a case to make with the traffic cops that they should not fine you for having stopped in the junction under the circumstances. But continuing to move ahead when other traffic has right of way would have been far worse - you were at the very least blocking folks with right of way, and also probably running the risk of being T Boned. Never ever do that!

This junction is of course a terrible one - my own cars have been fined twice here (both when my driver was on his way to Airoli). I just pay the fine and move on. If they started a points system, I would perhaps have been more inclined to dispute this - ₹ 200 is not worth fighting for.

[sagaranjos]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Is it really so simple? I was recently driving in Bombay, outside Churchgate station, and my signal was green, but there were pedestrians crossing the road nevertheless. I and my fellow motorists tried our best to wait for them to move on, but the signal turned red while we were waiting for them to finish crossing on our green signal. Now guess what, we were bang on the zebra crossing. And we couldn't move forward either since the vehicles from another road were passing, plus of course pedestrians merrily continued crossing.

Now kindly advise if we should have continued moving on, since as you say the signal was irrelevant, should we just have ignored the vehicles and the pedestrians and dashed into them?

Its never so simple is it, else we would have taken our call and wouldn't be discussing it on this forum, no?

You would still not be fined for breaking the signal.
But of course, you would be punished for culpable homicide.

Having said that, the original poster could have easily continued without any incident. Ideally (most times) the moment you cross the white line, the signal is not even visible to you.

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Attachment 2469115
What should I have done in this case?

The rule says, and this had been told by the traffic police to wife during their school trip to traffic park in Chandigarh, so first hand info: if you've crossed the zebra crossing and the signal turns yellow, you have to keep going. If the signal turns yellow should you are still to cross the zebra crossing, you need to stop.

[himalidaa]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Attachment 2469115
So I received a challan for my Swift today. I was taking a right turn towards Airoli from the eastern and traffic was slow due to a pothole and the signal turned red as I was traversing the zebra crossing and decided to stop. Got this gift from the police. What should I have done in this case? Should I have jumped the line and tailed the last vehicle and crossed the line even when the signal was red? I have already paid the fine for now.

I was crossing a similarly slow intersection once. Green when I reached the middle of the intersection. Then the traffic stopped. Signal got yellow then red and then the traffic moved. I had to cross obviously. But a cop standing just ahead, stopped and fined me for jumping the signal. He wouldn't listen to me. Apparently according to him, I should have reversed. It's so absurd.

[drsamuelk]

This is a Shakespearean dilemma - To be or not to be.

[riteshritesh]

Originally Posted by Hayek

I just pay the fine and move on. If they started a points system, I would perhaps have been more inclined to dispute this - ₹ 200 is not worth fighting for.

500 now, hence the agitation

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by riteshritesh

500 now, hence the agitation

I don't think its only about the amount of the penalty. Many of us genuinely want to be law abiding citizens.

However these grey areas confound our attempts to have an unblemished traffic record. Also, with newer initiatives like increased insurance premiums for repeat traffic offenders, point based licensing etc, we are all the more troubled and would like to know what is the legally correct procedure so that we're on the right side of the law.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by sagaranjos

You would still not be fined for breaking the signal.
But of course, you would be punished for culpable homicide.

I think you have no clue on traffic laws or on actual indian driving conditions, hence wouldn't like to continue this discussion.