[ron178]

Originally Posted by TusharK

According to a media report, Toyota is likely to launch a new 7-seater C-MPV in 2023.

Is this the Rumion or a "pure-bred" Toyota like the new Avanza?

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by ron178

Is this the Rumion or a "pure-bred" Toyota like the new Avanza?

A New Vehicle, more in the lines of Toyota Veloz! More in the link below:

Link (Rumour: Maruti Suzuki's Creta-rivalling SUV coming in 2020)

[GreenerPlanet]

Originally Posted by TusharK

Rumour: 7-seater Toyota C-MPV India launch in 2023

A pure hybrid powertrain is rumoured to power the new model.

What is pure hybrid? Sounds like an oxymoron.

Is there a MPV space between Ertiga and Innova? Yes.
Will Toyota target this sector? No.

[Deep Blue]

Toyota bringing their own product and not a badge change product from Maruti?. And six new vehicles over 2years! Why this sudden change of heart to India? I find it hard to believe.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by GreenerPlanet

What is pure hybrid? Sounds like an oxymoron.

Is there a MPV space between Ertiga and Innova? Yes.
Will Toyota target this sector? No.

Maybe they were meaning a full blown hybrid, unlike the mild hybrids and auto start stop ones that the two 'Ms' misused to get hybrid benefits.

Toyota could very well slot an MPV below the Innova. More sales from a new model as well as leeway to move the Innova up the price band.

[DeepCarTalk]

Originally Posted by TusharK

Toyota is likely to launch a new 7-seater C-MPV in 2023. It is said to be part of the brand's 'Big Leap' strategy.

The only 'Big Leap' i see coming is in terms of pricing. God forbid if this came between Ertiga and Innova, soon we'll see 40L+ Innovas and

wait, where is the Fortuner?

Just chilling with it's new buddies GLS and X7 in 2028 but not rocking that sunroof

[CEF_Beasts]

I was going through Toyota South Africa's website and saw that the Toyota Starlet (basically the Glanza in India) and the Suzuki Baleno from South Africa get 6 airbags in their top-variants!! I thought that MS can't change the structure to incorporate them for us but they are exporting cars with 6 airbags

Meanwhile Urban Cruiser/Vitara Brezza and Rumion/Ertiga get only 2 airbags in both South Africa and India, so why only the Baleno/Starlet?

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

I thought that MS can't change the structure to incorporate them for us but they are exporting cars with 6 airbags

Here it's a question of airbag volumes vs sales volumes. So that explains why.

[CArspeed]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Meanwhile Urban Cruiser/Vitara Brezza and Rumion/Ertiga get only 2 airbags in both South Africa and India, so why only the Baleno/Starlet?

That clearly shows the scant regard they have for the people of India. Not only Maruthi but also other players like KIA and Hyundai who have even developed a structural platform exclusive for India compromising the most important safety aspects. As you pointed out, I am also hurt when they don’t even give those as an option to buyers who are willing to pay for it. We who are in the know of things should teach them a lesson or two by abandoning their products as well as shouting out loud in forums so that they change their attitude.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

I was going through Toyota South Africa's website and saw that the Toyota Starlet (basically the Glanza in India) and the Suzuki Baleno from South Africa get 6 airbags in their top-variants!!

Warning: long, off-topic rant (let me explain why I think Suzuki South Africa is doing this)

Both Suzuki and RNM Alliance had to go really aggressive on safety spec in South Africa because consumers went quite mad after the India crash tests (for example, the Datsun GO - some reviewers in South Africa refused to drive it because of the 2014 Indian crash test result).

The point is, the moment you have more safety spec than India the marketing team can say "Oh, the car crash-tested in India didn't have x or y equipment so the African car is safer". Suzuki South Africa (one of the most messed up PR teams I have seen) does it with all their models, Renault often does too. But then though Global NCAP started testing in Africa independently, Suzuki never sponsored a test themselves. So they can tell customers the South African car is safer than the one tested in India, but they can never tell them how much safer it is.

The updated Swift in South Africa, for example, gets ESC as standard, and Suzuki's marketing team managed to convince even reviewers that the added equipment would improve the safety rating.

I'm not saying ESC or side airbags won't make it a safer car, I'm just saying that this is probably just damage control to try and convince consumers that the crash test rating is not valid.

The awareness about Global NCAP in South Africa is really, really poor. Part of it is probably because South Africa doesn't have a Team-BHP equivalent, and part of it is because manufacturers regularly brainwash automotive media into thinking Global NCAP is being, and I quote, "deliberately provocative".

Consumers in Africa rely on Euro NCAP results blindly, not realising that the cars sold can be very different. I'm not just talking about the 'usual' OEMs. Even ones like Mazda and Honda, who have really good safety engineering in developed markets. The Mazda 2 showed a very concerning seat failure in its South Africa crash test. The same thing had happened in its first Euro NCAP test but Mazda fixed the issue there before sales started and sponsored a retest. In Africa they just didn't care. Honda usually nominates Britax child seats (which until recently were not available in all RHD African markets). They knew they would sell the Amaze in Africa but did not bother to engineer it to work with child seats on sale there. When the GNCAP selected the Amaze in South Africa Honda had to nominate Maxi-Cosi seats instead and flunked the dynamic test worse than one could imagine. Similarly with the Kia Picanto, which incidentally got knocked off Maxi-Cosi's recommended cars list for that ISOFIX seat when the Q3 was ejected in the GNCAP test.

At one point someone, who I am inclined to believe works for the distributor for Suzuki in South Africa, heavily altered the S-Presso's crash test rating on its Wikipedia page. When someone put the rating back they interfered again and put it very clearly in the model name that the rating was "for the version without PTFL and ISOFIX". They also pointed out, as an analogy, how the Indian Celerio's result was different from the European one's just because of airbags, completely failing to highlight the structural differences that were observed in the tests.


This is quite problematic because South Africa, unlike India, has not yet applied even basic UN crash test regulation, so manufacturers can have cars that perform really badly (we're talking extremely high risk of life-threatening injury) but have good levels of safety equipment, which might convince consumers that they are safe. Case in point, the zero star old Nissan NP300 with airbags and ABS marketed with a 'safety shield' body.

Suzuki were even advertising Euro NCAP ratings in South Africa for some of their cars till somewhere around August last year, telling Twitter users the Global NCAP Safer Cars for Africa testing was too basic. Euro NCAP had them take it down for the Vitara on their website.

Here you will find Suzuki South Africa telling a consumer that the Baleno with six airbags has a three-star Euro NCAP rating, though the Euro NCAP rating is not valid for Africa regardless of equipment.



That link? A full article telling South African consumers how to read the Euro NCAP rating.

Did Suzuki SA fit side airbags to the Baleno just to be able to advertise its Euro NCAP rating to consumers? We'll never know.

There is an alternate explanation: in South Africa the Baleno's highest-selling rival is the VW Polo Mk6 which gets six airbags as standard there.

(Important to note that Suzuki in South Africa don't have the presence or market share they have in India, which is why you will find that the Toyota-badged Suzukis are selling a lot more than the originals in South Africa)

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by ron178

---

(Important to note that Suzuki in South Africa don't have the presence or market share they have in India, which is why you will find that the Toyota-badged Suzukis are selling a lot more than the originals in South Africa)

Suzuki may not be in the big 3 in S Africa, but still it is 5th largest brand in Auto sales.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Meanwhile Urban Cruiser/Vitara Brezza and Rumion/Ertiga get only 2 airbags in both South Africa and India, so why only the Baleno/Starlet?

Guess because the Baleno was also sold in Japan and Western Europe, while the Brezza is Indian market specific and Ertiga is South Asia, SE Asia, GCC, Africa specific model.

[Carma2017]

The reason for Baleno getting 6 airbags and not the others is simple. Baleno was designed for Europe, Japan and Australia and also sold in India and other markets in Asia. The developed markets mandatorily needed the 6 airbag feature. Hence they plonked it in for those markets only.

Brezza or Ertiga were never designed for the target European or Japanese markets. Hence, even the provisions for 6 airbags were never built in to these models.

But all this discussion is moot because all future cars in India will anyway have 6 airbags as mandated by Indian Government.

[shashi792]

My sources within TKM say that the Innova brand (in its diesel avatar) will be retired. This could be their new MPV (in Hybrid avatar) which was supposed to be next in line after the Hilux launch.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by shashi792

My sources within TKM say that the Innova brand (in its diesel avatar) will be retired. This could be their new MPV (in Hybrid avatar) which was supposed to be next in line after the Hilux launch.

Killing the cash cow? They did it with Qualis. But this time the market has moved on. Killing Innova Brand (crysta together with it) is quite surprising.

Does this mean Ertiga will take over the role of Innova? If yes, severe downgrade from crysta. Not sure what TKM is upto.