[swarnava.ch]

Now the new i20 launch is imminent and I came across this news
https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...dai-i20-419085

which basically means that at the launch of Turbo Altroz, there is no Auto planned - if the news is true. To be honest this is a big bummer. Look at the preparation from Hyundai with all the combinations at launch and here is Altroz where the Auto option is not even finalized.

[mega_wattt]

20k i20s already booked and by next year more i20s will be on road than Altroz.

I think Tata has missed the bus by being too late. What's the point of having a common powertrain if you cannot fast-track your launches.

I truly hope the launch is not too far.

[Deepsp]

Looks like Tata Motors started allotting Turbo petrol Altroz to media people.
Have we received one at Team BHP?

[swarnava.ch]

Originally Posted by Deepsp

Looks like Tata Motors started allotting Turbo petrol Altroz to media people.
Have we received one at Team BHP?

This is a great Scoop however the concerns still are the same.
TML is going slow and based on the buzz created before Diwali, they disappointed by not launching Turbo on time. Now it looks like only Next Year this will happen.

Secondly even if the Turbo comes, we need to see the Auto + Turbo option at launch and not the same excuses for Auto is getting delayed and on the way etc.

And lastly if i am allowed to make wishful thinking, Altroz EV. I think at 350 km range and a 12 - 13 L Price bracket, this will be a killer proposition.

Well to be honest, we cannot anticipate the scale of the impact of Pandemic so it may be very easy for us to blame Auto manufacturers here but its true as well that the markets are seeing uptrend now and there is momentum building up again and its better to jump in with new offering to wow the market.

[Napalm]

Originally Posted by swarnava.ch

TML is going slow and based on the buzz created before Diwali, they disappointed by not launching Turbo on time.

“Not launching turbo on time”? Seriously? Are we going hold TML responsible for schedule concocted by our media? Did TML ever say like Hyundai in case of i20(done on carandbike show) that they planned to launch Altroz-Turbo(&auto) at Diwali 2020? Please don’t get excited by media reports without any official quotes from OEM.

Originally Posted by swarnava.ch

Secondly even if the Turbo comes, we need to see the Auto + Turbo option at launch and not the same excuses for Auto is getting delayed and on the way etc.

Many people including teambhp reviewers expected these at launch too. But it did not happen. We just have to make peace with the fact that it may not come to market at the pace of our liking. Tata knows this very well and must be ready to lose out to competition due to this.

Originally Posted by swarnava.ch

its true as well that the markets are seeing uptrend now and there is momentum building up again and its better to jump in with new offering to wow the market.

There is still chance of a second wave. But even if we put the effect of Pandemic aside, I don’t think it is fair to compare Tata motor’s(or Mahindra’s) speed of launching products to other global companies like Hyundai, Kia or Maruti. These are truly global companies which sell cars in 100s of countries all over the global. They have many times higher turnover & R&D budget compared to Indian companies which sell in handful of small markets besides India.

Pratap Bose mentioned this when asked about plans to launch altroz-based Honda-city rival sedan : right now TML sees SUVs as the growth segment in India and they have spend what little resources they have on viable segments. So their priorities are clear.

The below YouTube Playlist has conversations with officials of almost all OEMs in India including heads of Hyundai, TML, Kia, Mahindra and many others.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...IfUQCnpYtTk9rO

Let’s go by OEMs official communications. Mahindra has mentioned that new gen Scorpio & XUV5OO will be launched in next 12 months. So all speculations in online news portals that new XUV5OO will launch in 1st quarter of 2021 may not hold good.

Tata & Mahindra will take their own sweet time. Frankly after what happened with the Harrier 1.0 and the success of Harrier 2.0 BS6, I wouldn’t blame them for some delay, but expect them to take time and come out with polished products without any major niggles.

We all know the amount of R&D effort that goes into getting 4/5 stars GNCAP safety ratings. Unlike some other global OEMs in India, TML & Mahindra have officially confirmed that they are aiming for 4/5 star with all their future products. So let’s cut them some slack in terms of launch times and give them the respect they deserve for this achievement.

[swarnava.ch]

Dear Napalm, thanks for your comments. Honestly, I am a bit flattered already that my post was quoted and three sentences were separately replied back, makes me already feel important

Please allow me to indulge in some friendly banter (however I don’t mean to be offensive at all to your point of views)

Originally Posted by Napalm

Are we going hold TML responsible for schedule concocted by our media? Did TML ever say like Hyundai in case of i20(done on carandbike show) that they planned to launch Altroz-Turbo(&auto) at Diwali 2020? Please don’t get excited by media reports without any official quotes from OEM.

To be honest here, Tata did bring the car in Autoexpo and there was even a leak from the TML website where Turbo version was added inadvertently but removed later. A lot of testing activities. But in all fairness I don’t think I have seen any such news from TML itself. Mostly media hype.

Originally Posted by Napalm

Many people including teambhp reviewers expected these at launch too. But it did not happen. We just have to make peace with the fact that it may not come to market at the pace of our liking. Tata knows this very well and must be ready to lose out to competition due to this.

This is the main point here for my earlier post. However this also shows that a year back when the model was conceived they had not planned well ahead in terms of segment or automatic gearbox strategy or engine power / performance. This is usually the main issue with our desi guys, they have to still look out for Gearboxes, Engines etc from other vendors while others like MS, Hyundai etc can just tap in to their global bins and find a combination easily. So collaboration, plannig and reading the segments is the key here.

Originally Posted by Napalm

Frankly after what happened with the Harrier 1.0 and the success of Harrier 2.0 BS6, I wouldn’t blame them for some delay, but expect them to take time and come out with polished products without any major niggles.

On this point, I am fully agreeing with you, it’s better to wait and get the niggles sorted out than go for a pre beta version and face flack and angry owners later. This has been a major concern for both of our automakers - TML and Mahindra. Even our Official Reviews and GTO has posted many times saying for new cars, it’s better to wait for some time before the niggles in the first version are all sorted out.

Originally Posted by Napalm

We all know the amount of R&D effort that goes into getting 4/5 stars GNCAP safety ratings. Unlike some other global OEMs in India, TML & Mahindra have officially confirmed that they are aiming for 4/5 star with all their future products.

While I appreciate the ratings, the planning for the 4* or 5* safety will go early on in their Structural design majorly. Once the car is in late stage road testing, believe me there is very little you can do to improve safety rating without changing the structural element which will set you back in release time considerably. So car makers will then decide to wait out improvements for the facelift later down the lifetime of the model.

Look, at the end of the day, I would also want to see TML and Mahindra succeed. Their focus on safety ratings is really making some of the other segment contenders jittery and such moves will overall benefit consumers at the end of the day.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Napalm

“Not launching turbo on time”? Seriously? Are we going hold TML responsible for schedule concocted by our media?

We all know the amount of R&D effort that goes into getting 4/5 stars GNCAP safety ratings. Unlike some other global OEMs in India, TML & Mahindra have officially confirmed that they are aiming for 4/5 star with all their future products. So let’s cut them some slack in terms of launch times and give them the respect they deserve for this achievement.

Well there is no connection between time spent on getting better safety ratings v/s getting the right choice of powertrain. Both happen in different departments and the final product must come complete at launch. Lets appreciate where appreciation is deserved(ie for safety, features etc) and mention the downside without using the positives as an excuse. It just adds to the long list of poor product 'planning' by Tata to a great extent more than Mahindra. Just compare how many variant changes happen in their offering compared to any other manufacturer. This puts the first customers who brought the cars knowing the shortcomings at a disadvantage. No other manufacturer globally does this even though there are others who provide even higher safety features and better products. Thats never an excuse for adding/removing features and powertrain. So speaking in specific to Altroz, it is pretty much understood that the petrol engine has been a downer. Now after a few months of launch, getting the turbo will at least not make me happy if I had brought a NA petrol. As much as I would appreciate the rest of the features, the engine and gearbox is anyday the heart of the car and some of the things I expect to change less frequently.

Here it is just like two teams getting their work done at different point of time for the same product, while a third team who manages the product just get it to market when they feel is appropriate, turning a blind eye to the R&D plan. I very much work in the core of this industry and know how this works and how this shouldn't.

[Ps_o]

Originally Posted by swarnava.ch

Dear Napalm, thanks for your comments. Honestly, I am a bit flattered already that my post was quoted and three sentences were separately replied back, makes me already feel important

Please allow me to indulge in some friendly banter (however I don’t mean to be offensive at all to your point of views)


To be honest here, Tata did bring the car in Autoexpo and there was even a leak from the TML website where Turbo version was added inadvertently but removed later. A lot of testing activities. But in all fairness I don’t think I have seen any such news from TML itself. Mostly media hype.

It is still there, just need to tweak URL's to access it. Attaching it here:
https://cars.tatamotors.com/images/a...er-overlay.jpg
https://cars.tatamotors.com/images/a...er-overlay.jpg
Bonus Marina Blue color: https://cars.tatamotors.com/images/color/blue.jpg

[arvindmanju]

Just now spotted a test vehicle on Bangalore Hosur Road, could not see if it was automatic transmission car.

[volkman10]

we have fresh information that indicates that component maker Schaeffler will only provide certain critical parts for the twin-clutch transmission which will infact be a Punch DT1 dry clutch unit as reported by us a year ago. Our apologies for the confusion.

Link

[Napalm]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Tata Altroz auto to use Schaeffler wet clutch DCT.

This is great news. Tata might just set the cat(reliable wet-clutch DCT) among the pigeons(unreliable dry-clutch DCTs with over-heating issues in Indian conditions) here.

Also the decision to launch only in top-spec variant must be to ensure low-volume during initial production-ramp, which will help Tata to closely monitor any niggles reported. I am sure it will come in more variants once Tata feels comfortable & sure about this new gearbox in Altroz working fine in real world conditions in the hands of car owners.

IMHO Tata is taking too much risk by going alone in this cut-throat industry when the Korean Hyundai-Kia, Japanese Toyota-Suzuki and even Mahindra-Ford & Renault-Nissan are teaming-up and pooling all their resources.

JLR is just too niche & low-volume luxury brand to significantly help Tata in doing such levels resource-pooling in India. Otherwise Tata would have got JLR’s 1.5 & 2 litre petrol & diesel ingenium engines in their Tata cars by now. Wishful thinking, but may be the next generation Seirra, Safari (& Hexa) will get those engines.

I am aware they have some collaboration with Fiat in sharing the vehicle manufacturing facility in Ranjangaon near Pune, but it is not to that extent. They should probably increase its scope.

[shashant]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Tata Altroz auto to use Schaeffler wet clutch DCT.

DCT automatic equipped Altroz will come with the 1.2-liter turbo-petrol engine.

Link

Now with no torque limit for the manual box. Hope we can get the Nexon's power and torque figures for the DCT.

[gjnnbagal]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Tata Altroz auto to use Schaeffler wet clutch DCT.

DCT automatic equipped Altroz will come with the 1.2-liter turbo-petrol engine.

Nice to see TML doing everything in the right direction, many enthusiasts were disappointed with 1.2 LTR petrol engine, wet clutch DCT automatic will give them a reason to consider Altroz over rivals

[SnS_12]

Being dry has the advantage of a better friction coefficient and not contaminating any oil. It’s cheaper too.

Oil bath clutches are quieter, and better cooled. So, would be interesting to see the engine oil change interval with a wet clutch.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Napalm

This is great news. Tata might just set the cat(reliable wet-clutch DCT) among the pigeons(unreliable dry-clutch DCTs with over-heating issues in Indian conditions) here.

I am not sure how you concluded wet clutch DCT to be the solution to the issues of a dry clutch DCT. If you take the VW as an example, both had their share of issues in India. And the nature of the issue was completely different in the two.

Originally Posted by SnS_12

Being dry has the advantage of a better friction coefficient and not contaminating any oil. It’s cheaper too.

Oil bath clutches are quieter, and better cooled. So, would be interesting to see the engine oil change interval with a wet clutch.

Agreed. While wet clutches will solve overheating issues, the friction material will contaminate the gearbox oil. If this is the same oil that is used for transmission control, then the oil change frequency should be well planned. Else it will have its own share of problems. The same oil circulates through the valve body of the transmission as well as the electronic circuitry. When the friction material gets into this system, then there will be issues with the transmission control like how the VW mechatronic unit had in India, while the same transmission would go for lakhs of kms in other countries.