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Old 16th October 2020, 12:42   #1
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Default Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Seltos has literally been a run away success since it's launch. I own one and largely happy with it. But off late, few issues faced by fellow owners isn't confidence inspiring.

It's regarding instances of brake failure reported by owners. I'm just reproducing them here which I had earlier reported in Kia Seltos Official Review thread on various occassions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
Brake failure on HTX + Petrol Manual

Incident 1 - Brake failure on HTX + Petrol Manual
Quote:
This guy was driving in cruise set at 60 kmph. On seeing an upcoming red traffic signal, he started to slow down and pressed the clutch pedal to downshift and the cruise got disengaged. Upon pressing the brake pedal , there was absolutely no braking available. He said the pedal felt like a hard wood with no movement or play. He tried slamming it again and again but to no avail - this must have happened for 7-8 seconds. He panicked and was fast approaching the signal. He stayed in 6 th gear itself and managed to pull the hand brake and stopped the car in the nick of time and inches before a two wheeler guy who was with his family with the pillion lady holding a baby in hand. He luckily managed to avert the mishap. The car apparently stalled with assistance from hand brake. He says the rear wheels got locked when it came to a stop. He started the car again, moved slowly and pulled over after the signal and the brake was then found to be operating normally afterwards.

He took the car next day to service centre. They checked the whole braking system and didn't find anything amiss. They checked the logs etc. They drained out the brake fluids and filled with fresh fluids. Owner was told they didn't find any debris or anything of that sort. They did multiple test drives and found everything ok. In fact after that incident at the signal, he never faced the issue thereafter. the service folks couldn't diagnose the root causes. Is there a way one can recover any system logs that can throw light into these incidents? These are rare issues of failure we hear.
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Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
An update on this. The brake failure issue has resurfaced in the same car two days ago.
Quote:
An update on this. The brake failure issue has resurfaced in the same car two days ago. Fortunately for him this time too, the car was doing 30-35 kmph and he could stop the car with the help of hand brake. Today the car is taken to service centre. During the test drive, the issue reared it's head again, fortunately. I say fortunate because it's difficult to recreate these kind of issues and guess there would be lack of any error codes too. Now the car is being evaluated by Kia. Shall keep all posted.

As discussed in other threads regarding inherent brake failure issue in many Cretas , prima facie this one also is heading in same direction. This is quite worrying for all Seltos owners, me included. Hope Kia comes out with a concrete solution unlike Hyundai.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ll-owners.html (Hyundai Creta: Serious brake failure issue (must-read for all owners))

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-response.html (Hyundai India - The occasional serious quality lapse and apathetic manufacturer response!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
Sorry to have missed giving an update here. Kia had changed the brake booster few weeks back on the car in question.
Quote:
Sorry to have missed giving an update here. Kia had changed the brake booster few weeks back on the car in question. Initially they swapped brake booster from seemingly their test car and asked the owner to drive it for few days. Owner did so for 600-700 kms without any issue. Post that, they replaced it with a new one under warranty and is working fine since then.

However there are two more similar cases reported. One is by a known acquaintance in Seltos whats app group. He had similar experience of feeling the pedal getting hard while braking and felt it wood like and reported the issue to NCS Kia in Thiruvananthapuram. Kia had carried out multiple tests and checks during which the issue never popped up. Car is handed over back yesterday after 5 days of testing and analysis. Owner has been told that they've followed the steps shared by Kia while carrying out the tests and found nothing unusual and handed back the car. They say everything is in order. Car was test driven in different driving conditions like b2b traffic, highways etc. Though the owner indicated about a similar concern(the aforesaid first case) reported at a different dealer(Incheon Motors, Aluva, Kerala)and even shared the contacts of the team who worked on that car to NCS, they were not keen to speak to them to gather more information which to me was bit unprofessional. Unlike earlier instance, this car had battery warning and low oil level warning popped up during the brake failure. As I was speaking to my friend, he shared another similar instance posted by a FB user.
Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos-screenshot_20200920204625_whatsapp.jpg

Update as on today here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
Update : The issue of brake pedal getting hard and brake failure has resurfaced in this car couple of days back even after changing brake booster. As updated by the owner, he has figured out that when the brake pedal goes hard with no braking action, pressing the clutch pedal immediately down makes the brakes to come back to normal. Owners who have manual Seltos can keep this in mind for a quick recovery in case one is faced with this.
After much deliberation, I decided to create this thread keeping in mind the safety of all Seltos owners. I feel these can't be brushed aside as one off instances and brings back memories of similar experiences shared by last gen Creta owners. Bhpian Naveen Raju was instrumental in bringing it up on this esteemed forum. With Kia likely to have same OEM supplier as Hyundai, these are worrisome signs. Hope Kia gets to the root cause of it. Unlike other component failures, a brake failure can turn fatal and Kia can't leave any stone unturned on this matter in the larger interests of safety of all owners, pedestrians, fellow motorists and other road users.

Mods, please move to the right section if it's not appropriate here.

Last edited by GTO : 17th October 2020 at 07:37. Reason: Correcting Hyundai links
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:52   #2
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Wasn't a similar issue reported on the Creta? Since they share similar underpinnings, is this the same issue? Why is no common media outlet reporting this? And why is ARAI complacent with performing very unrealistic and idealised fuel efficiency tests instead of testing these aspects?
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:53   #3
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Thanks Bibendum90949 for creating this separate thread. Many a times we blindly recommend Kia/Hyundai products to our friends and family members assuming that they will be trouble free.

Yet another humble reminder that all cars have some flaw or the other. Unfortunately this is very serious and seems to be a continuation of the Hyundai Creta issue. If the issue is solved by hitting the clutch, there seems to be a serious design flaw in the hydraulic set-up for the brakes and clutch. If Hyundai/Kia doesn't fix this, it's almost equivalent to murder considering the Creta already had a similar issue.
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Old 16th October 2020, 13:00   #4
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
After much deliberation, I decided to create this thread keeping in mind the safety of all Seltos owners.
And with that, youíve ruined the peace of mind of every Kia owner who stumbles upon this thread.

Why am I not surprised?! How many lives have to be lost before a corporation realises something SERIOUS is wrong with their product/s, which can have fatal consequences for everyone involved??

I look forward to this thread uncovering the various other members who have first handedly suffered this failure.

Also, tbhp needs a new master section to highlight the serious/life threatening flaws in ALL manufacturer vehicles. Anything related to steering/brakes/engine/transmission failing without any warning needs to be highlighted for the benefit of everybody who reads this forum.
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Old 16th October 2020, 13:07   #5
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze View Post
And with that, you’ve ruined the peace of mind of every Kia owner who stumbles upon this thread.
The very same reason why I didn't create one earlier though I had first hand information from two owners in Seltos club who faced this. But now it's criminal if I don't share it. Sorry mate.
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Old 16th October 2020, 13:25   #6
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
Seltos has literally been a run away success since it's launch. I own one and largely happy with it. But off late, few issues faced by fellow owners isn't confidence inspiring.

.

Well this is very scary indeed, we would have hoped that the Korean siblings learnt/resolved these fundamental issues after the 1st gen Creta fiasco. But they don't seem care about it, given the perception of their brand among the public and the reluctance of major publication to report the same.

And these are not isolated or occasional issues, a simple google search on it lists the following:-

https://www.change.org/p/hyundai-mot...-hyundai-creta

https://www.complaintboard.in/compla...a-l519211.html

https://www.mouthshut.com/review/Hyu...ew-rpqmnlmotqn

https://www.mycarhelpline.com/index....=720&Itemid=91


Hope disclaimers are added to current and future Hyundai/Kia product reviews about the serious quality lapses, life threatening failures & willful ignorance from the manufactures regarding the same.

This thread along with the consolidated thread about the issues with Hyundai should make it to the social media handle of Team Bhp, in order to raise awareness among the public.

Last edited by Car Architect : 16th October 2020 at 13:29.
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Old 16th October 2020, 13:40   #7
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

The curious case of Hyundai, and now Kia, and their problematic brakes. Thank you for creating this thread.

Iíve read through the entire post and i can totally relate. Iíve been through the exact same ordeal, but with the my 2014 Hyundai Verna. Always had brake issues, always went to the service centre, they always test drove it, but the damn problem never showed up during their test drive. I was soo frustrated . They changed the exact same part, the brake booster. Used to be fine for a while, then the problem came back. This was especially bad during poor roads.

Drive at 60kmph, then you spot an imperfect patch of tarmac, you decide to brake, you depress the brake pedal, but the damn car wonít stop. The brake pedal starts vibrating, it becomes rock solid (itís like the pedal is just stuck) i.e. wood like feeling, almost gives you a heart attack, then you instantly lift your feet and hit the brake pedal again and then it finally slows down. Finally, you tell this issue to family, friends and the service centre and not one person believes you because it canít be reproduced. Itís just random.

The only explanation that the service centre used to give me was thatís how ABS works. Right, Hyundai has a state of the art braking/ABS system that the ABS doesnít lock the wheels because the brakes donít even work in the first place. Smart. Itís like India would never have a second wave of Covid-19 like Europe because the first wave never ends. Smart strategy. I faced the same issue in my friends first gen Creta. I spoke about this issue and other problems I faced with my Verna in the following thread, post 212:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...sponse-15.html (Hyundai India - The occasional serious quality lapse and apathetic manufacturer response!)

Although I have to agree that my problem wasnít as serious as mentioned by BHPíian Bibendum. My car had braking issues, but they never totally gave up on me. The car stopped, but with a lot of drama as mentioned above. Coming to the case of Seltos, that is a serious and a dangerous issue. God forbid, it doesnít happen while cruising on the highway. Brakes totally giving up on you and resorting to the hand brake to stop a car to avoid a collision is stupendous and unheard of in todayís age of advancements and technology. Hopefully Kia/Hyundai come with a permanent fix.

Cheers!
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Old 16th October 2020, 14:03   #8
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

I'd always had this question on my mind - does/doesn't the Seltos have similar braking issues like @Ravenavi had faced with his old Creta ?

And now here's a thread dedicated to the issue

If the issue has been fixed with the new Creta ( @Ravenavi had mentioned this on his new Creta thread), why isn't it fixed on the Seltos yet ?

Last edited by NPV : 16th October 2020 at 14:05.
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Old 16th October 2020, 14:50   #9
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Thank you for bringing this to the notice of the automotive community at large.

I was about to pick up a new Hyundai Verna, but now I'm not going to go anywhere near the Korean cousins.

I'd rather buy a Mahindra and live with a rattle or two instead of refined car that has ABS that does not brake as a feature.
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Old 16th October 2020, 16:28   #10
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

This needs serious attention no matter how low the prevalence rate is. A brake is the most important part in the car. Seeing that the issue was present in Creta as well, was there an official statement released by Hyundai on this? I have a Seltos GTX+ Manual on order and now Iím seriously worried. I donít bother too much about issues reported on the internet since only those facing issues typically come on to post while the ones with no issues remain silent, but something relating to a basic component such as brakes is a huge red flag.

I also agree that this needs to updated in the review as a niggle at the minimum. Since consumer protection is non existent in India, itís up to us to force Kia or Hyundai to issue a statement on what is causing this and what has been done to rectify it.
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Old 16th October 2020, 17:01   #11
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

So apperently, a new brake booster fixed the problem of the brakes not working at all? Can somebody shed some light on this how that could be possible?

Brakes do work without brake boost. You will have to stomp a lot harder (and the pedal will feel a lot harder too), but it will brake.

Conversely, I canít imagine how a brake booster, no matter how faulty, could prevent the brakes from working at all. Unless somehow it manages to mechanically lock the piston in the brake master cilinder. (or any other mechanical moving part, e.g. a lever to the brake pedal or so?

Will be interesting to hear what the root cause of this ultimately is.

The brake booster can never be the root case. A root cause should describe at the lowest level possible what went wrong. So even if somehow the brake booster was involved we need to understand what went wrong with it, that caused the brakes to fail.


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Old 16th October 2020, 17:22   #12
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

I remember the 2009-10 Toyota recall which was caused by a heavy floor mat that caused the pedal to get stuck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E...ehicle_recalls

I cannot but help notice that in both incidents mentioned by @Bibendum90949, the cars were in their highest gear while the speed is only 50Kmph. I am not sure if its AT or MT. Now a days with all sensor driven ECU controls , maybe the low speed , high gear may have triggered an unusual response?.

In that case its a software bug fix that would solve the problem.

PS : Just noticed, Its Manual.

Last edited by srini1785 : 16th October 2020 at 17:25.
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Old 16th October 2020, 17:51   #13
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by Car Architect View Post
Hope disclaimers are added to current and future Hyundai/Kia product reviews about the serious quality lapses, life threatening failures & willful ignorance from the manufactures regarding the same.

This thread along with the consolidated thread about the issues with Hyundai should make it to the social media handle of Team Bhp, in order to raise awareness among the public.
I fully agree with all of the above! If Team BHP claims to be a neutral forum, this needs to be done at the earliest opportunity so that this critical piece of information can reach far & wide.

All the owners especially, need to be made aware of this insidious but fatal flaw which is lurking in their vehicles.

Imagine being an owner of this vehicle - Speeding down the road, suffering this failure, then (god forbid) fatally injuring somebody else/themselves. Good luck proving to the authorities that it wasn’t your negligence, but your brakes ‘failed’. The occurrence isn’t even saved as an event on the ECU, it vanishes just like Houdini..! How is somebody going to defend themselves in the face of the law?!

The manufacturer hasn’t even officially acknowledged that this issue exists!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokuljayaraj View Post
but something relating to a basic component such as brakes is a huge red flag.

I also agree that this needs to updated in the review as a niggle at the minimum. Since consumer protection is non existent in India, it’s up to us to force Kia or Hyundai to issue a statement on what is causing this and what has been done to rectify it.
I don’t know about you, but I’d never trust a manufacturer who can’t even get something basic, such as the brakes, working properly.

A whole thread exists highlighting the antics of Kia’s parent company - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...sponse-15.html (Hyundai India - The occasional serious quality lapse and apathetic manufacturer response!)

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
So apperently, a new brake booster fixed the problem of the brakes not working at all? Can somebody shed some light on this how that could be possible?
I think you may have misinterpreted what was posted in the last paragraph of the opening post.

It was mentioned that even changing the brake booster did NOT eliminate the problem. It reappeared again even with the new brake booster.

The parent company Hyundai already has a history of this exact failure in a sister product as discussed in the thread which I have linked above.

This whole saga reminds me of the B38M MCAS disaster.

Last edited by ChoosetoCruze : 16th October 2020 at 18:10.
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Old 16th October 2020, 17:56   #14
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

The underpowered petrol 1.2 Punto used to have this problem in the first batch. Especially in b2b low speed traffic with AC on. It was due to insufficient vacuum for the brake booster, derived from the intake manifold as there was no separate vacuum pump. They later added a vacuum pump and there was a ECU update for earlier batches, which detected low rpm and on declutching, increased rpm momentarily to create some vacuum enough to brake. Like Jeroen mentioned, the booster isn't the root cause but probably the boost enabler that's the issue perhaps. Fiat ASS unofficially advised to use clutch before braking to avoid this issue. There's a thread also, brake becoming hard on the Punto, somewhere.

Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 16th October 2020 at 18:26.
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Old 16th October 2020, 17:59   #15
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Default re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

OMG!! Thank you for this thread.

Story time:

I have been on the lookout for a personal vehicle and had taken short testdrive for KIA SELTOS, have read the initial review and hype/blings on offer. It seemed all great and seemed like a good deal.
During test drive , the same issue happened with the car. My heart sank and mind went blank (Disclaimer - I am a new driver and have driven cars sedatively and with caution). Somehow managed to stop the car, used handbrake before hitting anyone (trust me, i would have been viral on social media and newspaper for killing/injuring someone)

This wasn't bad enough, SA starts blasting me, saying I am careless and an idiot for not knowning how to drive. I tried to explain him humbly what i felt with the brakes and how I had managed to come out of this situation. I was soaked with sweat all over hands and forehead.
For them they were clear their products go through test and are better than INDIAN manufacturers, they are not like our regular TATA and Mahindra (where did TATA and mahindra came to conversation I will never know). Made me believe it was indeed ME who did everything wrong.

They were not ready to listen to my explanation/feedback. I requested the experience is as traumautising to me as it is for them and would appreciate some compassion to be shown.
I had shrugged it off thinking it was indeed me who was in the wrong. I had been taking stress and overthinking how close we came to an accident.

How they treated an individual has made it sure I will not go for a KIA product anytime soon. It was not just the SA but Manager as well. Blame game started and I have since decided not to indulge myself with anyone associated with the showroom/brand. I somehow do believe success has a part of it, good for them but not in way that you forget the human element into it. We should not be treated as just sales numbers at the end of the month.

We do need strict laws for these things, yes we can start pointing several things that are wrong when we see accidents on the road namely:
  • Driver must be drunk, not enough sleep
  • Driver must have been driving aggresively
  • Driver must be a learner/just started driving
  • Roads and infrastruture is bad for any kind of driving.
When will we also start saying THIS car is wrong or has this base problem, it is also manufacture's problem/fault when a driver cannot handle the tons of steel he/she is driving behind. Court should start accounting the manufacturers providing sub standard products with pano sunroof and state of the art music system and beautiful stering wheel (I loved the steering wheel and seats on the car)

The heart and body of the vehicle is Engine and critical components like brakes.. , for me soul can be attributed to Music system and other blings to be on offer. Give me a Dead Soul product any given day with good heart and body, it will be enough for me however I would never go for a product that has rotten heart and flesh on it.
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