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Old 26th November 2020, 19:36   #286
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
If that 'track record' suffices your requirements in a car, so be it. You are one of the whatever lakh customer base who are happy and content! It is maruti who has 'degraded' their customers, of being only worthy enough of whatever safety requirements (or lack thereof) that Suzuki deems fit for them!
If safety is only criteria and rest of the car/ownership doesnot matter, pick up a Tata/Mahindra and clearly there is customer base. For me overall ownership matters as much as safety. I don't own a Maruti or a Tata and neither do i plan to buy one, have a Mahindra Thar DI and my ownership experience has been very poor. I don't think I need to speak about the safety of Thar DI. Speaking of track record neither Tata/Mahindra have proven safety record for their previous gen cars, good thing is they are putting serious efforts to make their newer cars safer!
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Old 26th November 2020, 20:11   #287
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

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Originally Posted by Venkatesh View Post
Maruti reply with sales numbers to Tata Motors after Twitter jibe on WagonR

Attachment 2084804

https://twitter.com/MSArenaOfficial/...970684929?s=19
Maruti Suzuki - Aim for excellence, instead of drumming the sales number. Of course, you have milked millions of customers with your 'kitna deta hai?' mindset,; also answer 'kitna jaane lethihai?' .

'Dil se strong' should be replaced with 'Body se strong' .

Respect your peers and challenge them with producing safe and world class vehicles as millions put their family in your tin-cans without knowing the limitations.

I'm not generalizing Maruti products as some of their Nexa products have respectable safety standards. Nexa products like Ignis and Brezza should be your default standards for even Alto and spressos. PERIOD.
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Old 26th November 2020, 20:18   #288
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

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Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
Moreover, the cost of all this should fall within Rs. 3000~5,000 bracket (per vehicle).
...
Now-a-days, customers don't change their vehicle choices for such small price difference. Heck, many customers make purchase on loan, where this difference (Rs. 5000 etc.) just vanishes in EMI.
Only problem I see is, this 5000 is 'Cost' and the 'Price' customer is gonna pay will be 50k (OE profit margin + GST + Dealer margin + Other taxes including Road tax + impact on insurance + Sin theta + Cos theta + etc)

For anything over B+ segment, this 50k will not be a big deciding factor. But when it comes to A & entry B segment, it's 10~20% of ex-showroom price and people's acceptance is very minimal in our market. Unless we change, we deserve only tin cans.
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Old 26th November 2020, 20:26   #289
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
If that 'track record' suffices your requirements in a car, so be it. You are one of the whatever lakh customer base who are happy and content! It is maruti who has 'degraded' their customers, of being only worthy enough of whatever safety requirements (or lack thereof) that Suzuki deems fit for them!

If one wants to buy and drive a tin-box, so be it. There is no need to justify the choice. Also Tata and Mahindra aren't the only options available. Literally half a dozen car makers in India, all of whom can muster at least a star in crash tests. Lack of choice is not an excuse.
I think this is going a bit too far. I would attack Maruti for providing cars with are compromised safety but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to attack their customers for their choice (besides your victim has clarified he doesn't own a Maruti).

When you point the finger and question people for their choice of Maruti cars you automatically assume that all of them are either ignorant/gullible/driven by suicidal tendencies. Infact quite a lot of them might just have different priorities from you or me or maybe have extremely poor experiences with TATA/Mahindra (Please have the empathy to remember that human beings don't all overlook their past experiences).

Even I am looking at either the TATA Nexon/Altroz for my dad (he is fine with even a Wagonr). But I must admit that the only TATA dealer near me has abysmal reviews while reviews for Honda/Toyota are exceptional and Maruti is really good too. Rest assured that even if my dad has one negative experience with TATA that will probably set me dead against the brand even though safety is one of my top most priorities.

Members here are free to voice their opinion (even in dissent) and trying to carry this attitude of "my way or the highway" is extremely dangerous. It's just like this government branding anyone who disagrees with them an Anti-national. Let others vote with their wallet for their choices and you/me can vote for ours.

If TATA/Mahindra don't improve their ASS then they deserve to perish and while I would be sad that our options for safe cars are more limited I would still maintain that they deserved it.

Also, if I am not wrong, cars that don't have dual front airbags tends to score zero stars. Not defending Spresso but I think we need to understand the scoring system that GNCAP employs rather than be blinded by the zero star graphic.
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Old 26th November 2020, 21:06   #290
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

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Originally Posted by JithinR View Post
I think this is going a bit too far. I would attack Maruti for providing cars with are compromised safety but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to attack their customers for their choice (besides your victim has clarified he doesn't own a Maruti).
...
...
I agree. Each to his own. Safety is not a priority for a couple of my friends who are shopping for cars right now and for another friend who will buy any car as long as its a Maruti so everyone has their own priorities. There's no need to be disrespectful of other people's choices.

I also understand the lack of trust that many people have towards Tata and Mahindra because of bad experiences in the past. While personally I have not faced the infamous poor ASS of Tata in Calcutta (K B Motors, Dulichand and T C Motors have all been good), QC lapses were there even in my new car right after purchase, which were taken care of at the first service. However, that was over 7 years ago and in the last 4 years I have not come across anyone who has complained about their car, at least among the people in my circle who have bought one. (One Zest, one Hexa and two Tiagos).

Hence if I was shopping for a new car again, Tata would be at the top of my list, not only because most of the kinks have been ironed out now going by empirical evidence but primarily because of the build quality which has saved me again and again (including in an incident where I was sideswiped by a truck at a traffic signal).

Safety matters. Good build quality reduces the chances of serious injury in a crash and also reduces the post accident repair cost and overall frequency of body work.

Last edited by Rehaan : 26th November 2020 at 21:08. Reason: Shortening quoted post a bit, so as not to inconvenience small-screen users :)
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Old 26th November 2020, 22:44   #291
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

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Originally Posted by Carma2017 View Post
1) Suzuki India is behaving like a jack by not giving two hoots to NCAP testing when they kowtow to it worldwide.

There are no easy answers but one thing is clear that Government has to play a more active rule in transport policy making beyond its stated dream of reducing imported oil dependency.
You make some interesting points. On reflection, I agree with some of them and not with others. Let me try to explain my point of view.

Yes, cars are safer than two wheelers in general. Your assumption that safety costs money and will price cars out of reach is, IMHO, a bit flawed. It is true if you only consider incremental costs. The argument is not so clear if you start with safety as a parameter. Consider body structure - it costs some money to design a car. It costs some money to manufacture it. Given the example of TATA, we can say that designing for safety and manufacturing for safety doesn’t significantly increase cost as compared to a similar segment car from the competition.

Let me put this in another way. If pure economics were driving design and manufacturing, then there may be no need for a company to spend any effort on safety. If safety is made mandatory, then suddenly innovation is needed and I believe engineering will rise to the challenge. In this case, we can get a car at the same price that is much safer. I don’t see the same conflict between safety and cost as you do.

I very much agree with your point that Government regulations can play an important role here. If the Government sets out a clear roadmap of mandatory safety features and a timeline for the same, I believe that all cars will comply without impacting the price.
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Old 26th November 2020, 23:26   #292
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

This reminds me of the New Zen boxy Ad. That ad made fun of its own product.

This ad sounds like a cooking oil tag line!
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Old 27th November 2020, 03:29   #293
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

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Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31 View Post
I. We read everywhere ,on reviews and brochures , which advertise "excellent safety kit" with a bunch of jargons thrown in. The GNCAP game has arrived to our shores late but better late than never.

We will definitely be seeing the GNCAP rating added to Team Bhp official reviews rather than just having to say excellent safety kit.
Well, the TeamBhp Kia-Sonet review’s initial pros and cons section still has this :
“Top safety package includes 6 airbags, ESP, HSA, TPMS etc.”
And there is no mention that it has not been tested by any NCAP and has no crash-safety rating. So people might interpret that it is as good if not better than XUV3OO or Nexon.

The worst part is that, this section of Sonet review will continue to have this data until GNCAP voluntarily tests Sonet, which may easily take more than 2 years. Heck, the Venue is more than 1.5 years year old and not yet tested.

I am just afraid that until the GNCAP tests cars like Venue & Sonet, people would have bought these cars for more than half of their life-cycle(after 5/6 years next gen comes) and there is nothing that we can do. Because there is no way in hell that Hyundai/Kia are going to sponsor their car’s GNCAP tests.

I just hope the moderators take cognisance of this aspect and mention in reviews that a particular car has not been tested by any NCAP. This might force Hyundai/Kia/Maruti to a certain extent to send their cars for GNCAP tests.

Until then, even the teambhp reviews will also send out a similar mixed message as other reviews that you have mentioned about.

This is just my opinion and I mean no disrespect to any of the reviewers.
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Old 27th November 2020, 08:44   #294
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

Tata motors mocked Maruti Cars, Maruti has now mocked their customers instead of Tata
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Old 27th November 2020, 10:42   #295
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

received on WhatsApp :

I say Keep this naming & shaming momentum going.

Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating-img20201127wa0001.jpg
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:02   #296
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/te...a-6162351.html


“A private company which has commercial interests of its own prescribes some (other) standards and the government prescribes some other standards. What should be followed is a question one needs to think about. Should any car company, and not just Maruti Suzuki, seek to comply with government standards or some private company standards? (Global) NCAP is a private company promoted by certain companies,” Mr Bhargava says.

“I have not seen the tweets (of Tata Motors) but I see what the customer wants. Anybody can write anything but the ultimate result is the customer. We are not interested in sales of A, B or C (companies), we are interested in what the customer wants. My focus is on the customer and not on anybody else,” Mr Bhargava added.


His arrogance knows no bounds ! He is ready to discredit a international reputed testing agency rather than accepting or working on MS shortcomings.

Keep it up Maruti Suzuki! But remember "Paap ka Ghada Sabka Bharta Hai"
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:13   #297
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

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Originally Posted by Napalm View Post
Well, the TeamBhp Kia-Sonet review’s initial pros and cons section still has this :
“Top safety package includes 6 airbags, ESP, HSA, TPMS etc.”
And there is no mention that it has not been tested by any NCAP and has no crash-safety rating. So people might interpret that it is as good if not better than XUV3OO or Nexon.

I just hope the moderators take cognisance of this aspect and mention in reviews that a particular car has not been tested by any NCAP. This might force Hyundai/Kia/Maruti to a certain extent to send their cars for GNCAP tests.

This is just my opinion and I mean no disrespect to any of the reviewers.
I completely agree with your point and +1. Adding to your point, When I used to watch back to back reviews of cars in other YouTube channels, at least couple of years back till this point the way an ordinary feature is highlighted for Kia/Hyundai was not done for a class-leading feature of Tata/Mahindra.

I understand that these companies marketing of the features are not great and so are the list of the features. Also, the new brands were and are more exciting. Neutral reviews (way it is presented) would clearly set the viewers and potential customers in right scale of comparison.
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:44   #298
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

Twitter reply aside here is a byte from the boss at Maruti Suzuki in an interview to Moneycontrol.

Quote:
Speaking to Moneycontrol on Thursday, Bhargava said: “What should be the parameter (of the tests)? The one that is defined by the government or those prescribed by some private agency?”
Quote:
Bhargava said that it follows the crash-test norms laid down by Indian laws for every car it launches here. The frontal offset test in India is conducted at 56km/hr, whereas the Global NCAP frontal offset test is done at 64km/hr. While the testing is done by government agencies at their facilities, currently, India does not have any star-rating style on crash safety like Global NCAP.

“A private company which has commercial interests of its own prescribes some (other) standards and the government prescribes some other standards. What should be followed is a question one needs to think about. Should any car company, and not just Maruti Suzuki, seek to comply with government standards or some private company standards? (Global) NCAP is a private company promoted by certain companies,” Bhargava added.
Quote:
Bhargava said that Maruti Suzuki is more interested in knowing what the consumer wants instead of what the competition is doing. He pointed out that Maruti’s volumes have not suffered despite the promotion done by the Global NCAP ratings done by its rivals.

“I have not seen the tweets (of Tata Motors) but I see what the customer wants. Anybody can write anything but the ultimate result is the customer. We are not interested in sales of A, B or C (companies), we are interested in what the customer wants. My focus is on the customer and not on anybody else,” Bhargava added.
Source:
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/te...a-6162351.html
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Old 27th November 2020, 12:46   #299
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To be frank , I have no hopes on Maruti to produce a safer car unless government comes with a strict law with enough transparency.

For instance Mr.Bhargava said their cars comply with the Indian crash safety norms and it passed the 56KMPH tests, let's challenge them to disclose the ratings bagged by SPresso for the Indian test ! Damn sure it would be the lowest . They are just putting a blanket of Indian norms which aren't available to the public , what are they hiding ?

Any means to access the ARAI data ?
Passing a test and scoring high ratings are different indeed.

The rank list won't be different even if the test speed is reduced and Indian manufacturers will top the list and Marutis will be still at the bottom.

Last edited by TorqueIndia : 27th November 2020 at 12:49.
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Old 27th November 2020, 13:23   #300
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Default Re: Tata Motors mocks the S-Presso for its zero safety rating

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Originally Posted by buntee90 View Post
He is ready to discredit a international reputed testing agency rather than accepting or working on MS shortcomings.

Keep it up Maruti Suzuki! But remember "Paap ka Ghada Sabka Bharta Hai"
Kodak, Nokia, ..... and ....

Leaders, in their product segments, who didn't read the direction of wind, and this list can grow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm View Post
Well, the TeamBhp Kia-Sonet review’s initial pros and cons section still has this :
“Top safety package includes 6 airbags, ESP, HSA, TPMS etc.”
And there is no mention that it has not been tested by any NCAP and has no crash-safety rating. So people might interpret that it is as good if not better than XUV3OO or Nexon.

The worst part is that, this section of Sonet review will continue to have this data until GNCAP voluntarily tests Sonet... Until then, even the teambhp reviews will also send out a similar mixed message as other reviews that you have mentioned about.
+1.

I request Mods to edit past reviews (say for last 5 years) and add one more heading in review summary (example below) :

Quote:
Pros :

Cons :

Safety Ratings :
- Indian variant $$$ tested by GNCAP in year xxxx and received ## starts in Adult Occupant Protection & ## stars in Child Occupant Protection.

- Indian variant $$$ tested by BNVSAP in year xxxx and received ## starts in Adult Occupant Protection & ## stars in Child Occupant Protection. [BNVSAP is less stringent than GNCAP, so star ratings can't be compared]

- Indian variant not yet crash tested by GNCAP or any other agency for star rating
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueIndia View Post
Damn sure it would be the lowest . They are just putting a blanket of Indian norms which aren't available to the public , what are they hiding ?
SIAM must be working overtime to dilute the BNVSAP norms so that members can flaunt the 'stars' but hardly improving anything.
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