[sgmuser]

Originally Posted by VaidhiR

Qualis was replaced at its peak with the Innova.

If this rumours are true, and Toyota want to upgrade their "portfolio", then the 2022 Avanza is the closest I can think of. Well Vellfire. But its going to be ridiculously expensive.

Specs from the Philippines Toyota website.

I really doubt. Avanza comes with a 1.5 liter petrol in SE Asia and as well here in the middle east. It is smaller in size (at least the older ones I see here in this part of the world). They co-exist with Innova Crysta/Innova. Yes, the only thing that is similar is that both are 3 rows MUV. Other than that, they are in different leagues in terms of positioning. I could be wrong though.

[Technic90]

Originally Posted by jeeva

I'd like to believe that Toyota is feeling the heat turned on by the spree of VFM diesel SUV launches by M&M, Tata Motors and Hyundai to an extent. The Innova and the Fortuner were always way too overpriced for that what they had to offer. Atleast here in India, people were paying/still ready to pay the absurd prices just for the "Toyota" brand value.

Lol what heat. Innova is averaging 6000 units and Fortuner 2500 per month. Forget Hyundai they don't even have any competitor and none of the new models by TATA and Mahindra made any difference to Innova and Fortuner sales numbers if you look to trend in past few years. In fact Toyota sells more Fortuner at 50 lakhs than TATA can sell Safari at half the price. The waiting period hasn't come down either, unless you are ready to shell out extra money for accessories.

Regarding the points that have been discussed , I would like to point out few misconceptions

1. HyCross is most likely to be monocoque which means it will be manufactured in plant 2, not in plant 1 which is exclusively for body on frame vehicles. So unless they are upgrading plant 1 to handle monocoque, I don't think HyCross production has anything to do with Crysta diesel.

2. Toyota recently invested 3600cr for hybrid localisation in Bangalore and obviously the future hybrid models won't cost as much as Camry hybrid which is CKD so no logic in thinking hybrid Innova will cost close to Camry.

3. Innova diesel AT fuel economy ranges from 9-14kmpl on an average between city and highway, expect 2-3kmpl more for manual. Toyota claims 16kmpl for Vellfire hybrid so real world economy of Vellfire hybrid and Crysta diesel is almost the same. So Toyota can create hybrid Innova with same fuel economy as diesel Innova.

4. The BS6 parts in Innova and Fortuner cost around 1.5 lakhs and the hybrid battery in Camry costs around 2-3 lakhs. Once BS6.2 comes into effect, the cost of Diesel engines will increase more and therefore there won't be much gap in cost for hybrid and diesel considering the fact that Toyota is planning to heavily localise hybrid components.

5. Correct me if I am wrong but Toyota already sells Hilux in UK complying with Euro 6 real driving emissions (RDE) which is basically the B6.2 so I guess they are well prepared.

6. The rumours of Toyota completely stopping diesel is still premature. Toyota is aware no one cares about petrol in their line up as 98% of sales are for diesel. Unless Toyota Thailand comes up with a potent Petrol Fortuner either V6 or hybrid, Toyota India has no option to continue selling diesel unless they plan to stop selling Fortuner altogether. Fortuner, Hilux and Innova are global products, I don't expect any special versions for Indian market.

7. There is not much awareness on hybrids in our country, so if Toyota sells petrol hybrid and diesel together, people will still go for diesel especially due to fuel price difference. Maybe pausing diesel bookings has something to do with launching and promoting hybrids briefly before restarting bookings or maybe they want to restrict diesel Innova to fleet operators. Any updates to Fortuner will first happen in South-East Asia so we will know beforehand.

There is no news of Toyota stopping production of diesel Innova, they just paused the bookings so let's wait and see instead of spreading rumours on complete diesel ban. Ofcourse companies will move away from diesels eventually but we don't know the exact timeline yet.

[kaustavguha]

With the diesel Innova being discontinued, what options does a buyer have who wants a 7 seater diesel?

Carens
Marazzo(i know the sales figures are very low but Mahindra still sells it)
Alcazar
XUV 700
Safari

Out of the above i don't see a single car that will fill all the needs of a Innova buyer.

[Indepth]

Sometimes I feel we forgive Toyota way too often on the name of reliability. I mean why should Toyota stop providing what people are buying.
I think they take Indian customers for granted way too much. I mean they make relatively more reliable cars alright, but they charge hefty premium for same. I mean one has already paid like 1.5 times the price (hypothetically) while buying a Toyota.

Our car market is still too immature for new entrants to establish easily (kia has done it though and how).

So, Brands like Toyota have milked Indian customers for providing peace of mind. But in return they have never listened to customer demands.
Toyota has always ditched us. Be it Qualis (stopped abruptly), Etios (substandard) , Hilux ( insane pricing) and now the Innova.
Toyota is testing Indian customers nerves , but we always tend to forgive them.
Otherwise, we were never so generous towards European and American brands. For eg: products like Endeavour , cruze, Jetta, Fluence, Yeti, Linea never got the sales they deserved.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Technic90

Regarding the points that have been discussed , I would like to point out few misconceptions
The BS6 parts in Innova and Fortuner cost around 1.5 lakhs and the hybrid battery in Camry costs around 2-3 lakhs.

I am sure you will know, Hybrid is not simply putting a battery. The whole drivetrain is different; Petrol engines also need some emission-related parts for Euro6, even in hybrids.

If we think putting a Hybrid in Innova petrol/ Fortuner will cost a couple of lac extra, it's a big mistake. Besides, if the vehicle was not designed to accept a Hybrid powertrain at the design board, Toyota would not plonk one so late in its life.

Correct me if I am wrong but Toyota already sells Hilux in UK complying with Euro 6 real driving emissions (RDE) which is basically the B6.2 so I guess they are well prepared.

The challenges in India also have a lot to do with traffic conditions and our geography. Toyota sells 2,4 and 2,8 Ltr diesel in the UK per the website. What happens in future there is difficult to say. I assume the number of such vehicles will be very tiny, and all of those vehicles will be coming from Japan/ Thailand.

The rumours of Toyota completely stopping diesel is still premature. Toyota is aware no one cares about Petrol in their line up as 98% of sales are for diesel.

Why will all dealers stop accepting bookings if these are premature? If dealers start taking new bookings citing more allocations, we can say there is a change, but if that does not happen, Diesel in Toyota will be history.

When Maruti stopped selling Diesel, everyone thought their volumes would reduce, but look at their waitlist. There is no doubt that competition has outgrown them, but that's more because of not having the right product rather than a Diesel.

Toyota India has no option to continue selling diesel unless they plan to stop selling Fortuner altogether. Fortuner, Hilux and Innova are global products, I don't expect any special versions for Indian market.

Yes, they won't have anything special for us, so they will stick with Petrol for a while. Most people in NCR now prefer Petrol, and if someone wants a Fortuner, I don't think it will make a difference, at least here after a while.

There is no news of Toyota stopping production of diesel Innova, they just paused the bookings so let's wait and see instead of spreading rumours on complete diesel ban.

If you speak to the dealers privately, they will tell you the same thing. None is happy to lose their cash cows- Innova and Fortuner Diesels. But I am sure Toyota guys will have a reason for this; they are no fools running such a giant company.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

If you speak to the dealers privately, they will tell you the same thing. None is happy to lose their cash cows- Innova and Fortuner Diesels. company.

They will be unhappy. Toyota sales guys were not required to make any sales pitch in selling these two cars. People just walk in and buy these two with out further queries or ask for competition comparison.
With hybrids, things are going to change. The mileage figures will have to reach overall atleast 16kmpl to wean away a significant percent of diesel customers.

But I am sure Toyota guys will have a reason for this; they are no fools running such a giant

Going by the Hyryder fiasco, one can have serious doubts on this. They can't even launch a car properly with no strategy or plan in place. Even pricing they are not able to arrive at. Innova and Fortuner transformation will be more chaotic for sure.

[humyum]

My Father called our dealer 2 days back, he said since you have booked 2 months and 20 days back, you will get the car 100% in the color as well as model, fuel type everything of your choice anytime now, no question about it.

[Frank27r1]

Official information on this from a Toyota salesperson in Mumbai. He runs a good and informative youtube channel for Toyota cars. Hope this helps.

The link is provided below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flS5...MOHAMMEDNADEEM

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Frank27r1

Official information on this from a Toyota salesperson in Mumbai. He runs a good and informative Youtube channel for Toyota cars. Hope this helps.

The link is provided below:
<YouTube URL snipped>

Please post a summary of this person's response, can you? For those of us who can't/won't stream a video at the moment. Thanks.

[Frank27r1]

Originally Posted by locusjag

Please post a summary of this person's response, can you? For those of us who can't/won't stream a video at the moment. Thanks.

Sure. Here's the summary:

"There's no official communication to dealers that the production has stopped for the Innova Crysta diesel variant. For the month of Aug & Sep, no supplies will be there from the manufacturing plant only petrol variants will be available. There is no shared communication for the reason of production stoppage.

Regarding hybrid Innova, the possibility is likely as Toyota is looking forward to hybrid vehicle lineups for India. But no information as of now on when the launch will happen. In the rest of the video he is talking about the benefits of Hybrid vehicles."

[MetalClank]

Originally Posted by Frank27r1

Sure. Here's the summary:

"There's no official communication to dealers that the production has stopped for the Innova Crysta diesel variant. For the month of Aug & Sep, no supplies will be there from the manufacturing plant only petrol variants will be available. There is no shared communication for the reason of production stoppage.

Regarding hybrid Innova, the possibility is likely as Toyota is looking forward to hybrid vehicle lineups for India. But no information as of now on when the launch will happen. In the rest of the video he is talking about the benefits of Hybrid vehicles."

I felt he is doing more damage to Toyota than Toyota itself. If the dealership has no clue why Toyota is doing what its doing, then god save Toyota.

[Venkatesh]

Toyota India promoting the Petrol Innova on its official Twitter handle.

This is the second one in a weeks time.

Tweet on the same day as the thread started - 13th August.



Today's tweet

[humyum]

I am beginning to believe that Toyota is taking its customers for a ride. This guy from the dealership in the video is saying no Innova Diesel's will be supplied in August and September, I mean if what he is saying is right, then Toyota will not comment, but if he is spreading these kind of rumors', then Toyota should come out clean and clarify.

I as a customer who has booked one 2nd half months back needs to know when the delivery will be done if it will be done. If its not going to be done, I might as well start thinking of other options.

Imagine if I get told in October after booking in May that you won't be getting your car, how would I as a customer feel?

[MetalClank]

I guess its official because I do not see Diesel option showing up anymore on Toyota's official website as well for Innova booking. Only Petrol is seen for Online Innova booking.

Also, it appears they have reduced the online booking amount to 25K? I remember it was 50K for the likes of the Fortuner if booked on their website? Someone is feeling the heat of the competition eh?

Online Registration ₹ 25,000/- (Legender)

[condor]

Is the scenario same for other Toyota models like Fortuner ? If it is only for the Innova, then it could be that Toyota is trying to bring in a new model. Then again, we dont have any test mules spotted yet, or have we ?