[vj_torqueaddict]

I think it's a nice move. I am not sure what brand dilution people are referring to here. Thar always had a 2WD variant for decades. I hope they provide good articulation and MLD kit as an option. That should make it reasonably good.

[84.monsoon]

Although the YouTube reviewers keep going on and on about the fact that the Thar Diesel 2WD has the same torque as the 4WD, they fail to point out the fact the peak torque of 300 Newton metres in the 2WD is developed in a very narrow engine RPM band of 1750 to 2500 RPM. However the 4WD makes a same peak torque of 300NM all the way from 1600 to 2800 RPM. This translates to much broader torque band, coming in at a much more usable and lower engine speed and staying on longer as one revs the engine. So I have a feeling the 2WD is going to have a good deal of turbo lag as the engine has to spin harder to access the full torque available. One may also need to do a lot of shifting to get to higher speeds as the torque also tails off very quickly.

End of the day, there is no replacement for displacement

[shankar.balan]

Just adding a little masala.
Driving the old Bolero non-turbo up the hills it just chugs and chugs along. Yes it doesnt make big power and there is no turbo boost.
But the thing is it keeps up a sustained torquey momentum which keeps it plodding stubbornly up like a mule.
By contrast, all these newer turbo engines, while they are very much more powerful and all, need to still spool up to deliver. And the moment the vehicle loses momentum, they spool back down again and one has to keep them fed to spool back up. This is a pain in a sense when climbing up the hills. Forced induction is great but needs to be sustained. Which means excellent driving skills and technique are needed.
This phenomenon is more strongly felt in the smaller turbo engines.
So yes, it is true that there replacement for displacement and nor will there ever be replacement for pure driver skill and technique.

[tarunjain]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

This will surely cannibalise the sales of the 4X4 variants of the car.

I think this needs to be seen in context of the upcoming 5 door Thar. The current Thar was anyway set to be cannibalized by the 5 door Thar. With the Thar 3 door itself touching 20L on road, there wasn't enough room left for Mahindra to price the 5 door Thar much higher than that. If they price the 5 door only a couple of lakhs higher than the 3 door Thar, 3 door Thar would anyway be a tough sell. So the only option left was to somehow reduce the prices of 3 door Thar. The way they are doing it seems to be a smart way of keeping the 3 door Thar alive.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by vj_torqueaddict

I think it's a nice move. I am not sure what brand dilution people are referring to here. Thar always had a 2WD variant for decades. I hope they provide good articulation and MLD kit as an option. That should make it reasonably good.

Earlier Thar never came with an automatic or creature comforts. So it was bought by people with real use cases and rarely as a poser. Since the new gen Thar came with automatic, it became popular among a different consumer group who values how people perceive the Thar more than the real use cases. This group is the one who complains about brand dilution. I belong to the same group as well. We want Thar to be a lifestyle statement with sufficient brand value and not to be a 2WD workman's truck which the earlier one was. It dilutes the brand. Thar almost underwent the same transition that Hilux, F150, etc underwent. From a workman's truck to a lifestyle statement. The 2WD Thar will prevent this full transition. There will now be an affordable version that Mahindra's loyal rural customer base can buy. I hope there is a prefix or suffix with the actual Thar name to distinguish this variant from the other one.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Thar almost underwent the same transition that Hilux, F150, etc underwent. From a workman's truck to a lifestyle statement. The 2WD Thar will prevent this full transition. There will now be an affordable version that Mahindra's loyal rural customer base can buy.

The Hilux and F150 would be kinda bad examples for this. Though they have become lifestyle models, especially the F150, they do continue to have affordable workman's truck versions. That is where they are successful. You could have versions with small tyres, base engines, rubber flooring, not even having power window versions to luxury versions to TONKA truck like versions that have prices approaching luxury car prices. Yet, they comfortably sell both.

But my problem is Mahindra hasn't done enough for differentiation. This is definitely not workman's truck spec. Just mall crawl spec. Mahindra can surely launch a more basic version of the Thar for fleets as well as launch a more off-roady/ Raptor/ TRD like version straight from the factory. Maybe they have to put their production constraint issues in place before venturing into such areas, but I am sure they will do something like that midlife to prevent the dilution of the brand.

[blackwasp]

We already have a Thar 4x4 diesel AT in the house. The second vehicle could be a 4x2 Thar if it came with an AT. Preferring the diesel as running would be close to 2000 kms per month. There is no need for 2 4x4 vehicles in the house. When going off-roading, I can always borrow my dad's ride. Plus the Thar AT is a hit will all in the house. Even those not preferring to drive a car were swayed thanks to the Thar's tall seating and smooth gearbox.

I was eagerly waiting for Jimmy 3 door, but as its not going to come anytime soon, this 4x2 Thar might just make its way home.

[sgmuser]

Mahindra rushed this one like anything it looks like. They have started this work in 2021 approximately but the product management is completely off. This will only damage the reputation Thar managed to build but sales will go up in any case. For under 12 L on road this should sell well and will find many takers, both personnel and commercial. I foresee the hilly/ghat road taxi segment will retrofit side facing seats after removing the rear seats as the Thar will offer a far better differentiation, ride and performance compared to the Boleros and MM540s. Mahindra will do again a Mahindra act to start the price at around 9.xxish and then in few months increase to 11ish to make up for the loss in the profit.

Mahindra, remove even the music system, alloy wheels and price it further down, why not!

Watered down versions will affect the 2nd hand market value of the existing Thars for sure. Thar Product management team has so many variants to offer in the coming months to kill Jimny.

1.5 DSL Auto
1.5 DSL Manual 4WD
1.5 DSL Auto 4WD

Then the real fun starts when 4 door Thar launches. The same manipulations will restart! At some point Thar will have 363 variants to offer from just 6.

Jokes apart, IMHO Jimny will offer a far more matured 4x4 kit, reliability, after sales and niggle free ownership experience compared to Thar whose advantage will be the Thar brand, ruggedness, size (road presence) and better drivetrains on offer. I can only pity Gurkhas!

[Zanskar]

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t it the same case with most SUV’s like Fortuner etc. wherein they come with a 2WD setup along with 4x4 versions. In fact most Fortuners in the city are not even 4x4’s. Mahindra is just making Thar accessible to a large group of people who want to buy it for its looks more than its 4x4 ability.

In my neighbourhood I have seen the new Thar with ultra low profile tyres mounted on some fancy aftermarket alloys. I’m sure 4x4 or not that car will not survive any off-roading.

It’s obvious that it won’t sit well with most 4x4 enthusiasts on team bhp. I for once would never buy a SUV without 4x4.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by sgmuser

Jokes apart, IMHO Jimny will offer a far more matured 4x4 kit, reliability, after sales and niggle free ownership experience compared to Thar whose advantage will be the Thar brand, ruggedness, size (road presence) and better drivetrains on offer. I can only pity Gurkhas!

Among it's many advantages the Thar will offer much nicer ride quality, more interior space and most importantly far better safety (Jimmy scraped through with 3 odd stars 5 years ago, perhaps a single star now!)

Also the Jimmy is a tiny'ish car with a small petrol engine, so the 1.5 Thar is plenty a rival, leave aside a full size one. Also the elongated wheelbase of the Indian Jimmy, plus smaller wheels will mean that it won't be as competent off-road as the global 3 door version. Plus the most popular Jimmy in India will be the 2wd version.

One thing Mahindra cannot compete with maruti is that the latter dominates in making cheap light cars.

One can foresee a two wheel drive base model Jimmy being a much cheaper option to a base model Thar. Plus maruti also has the volumes advantage whereas Mahindra struggles to meet demand and long wait periods. But I don't think the Indian giant is focussed on making more cars or cheaper cars than maruti. Today Mahindra is a far more aspirational/Upmarket brand in comparison for most Indians. With a line up like XUV700, Scorpion, Thar, Bolero etc.. Mahindra firmly dominates a market space that maruti can only dream of competing in.

[rajneeesh]

I expect the Thar 2 WD to do well. Team bhp members are enthusiasts unlike the general car buying public. Other than Thar in the recent times, no mass vehicle had an 4WD only configuration. Most manufacturers offer only 2WD drive options. Most Jeep Compass and Merlin are also 2 WD vehicles and less than 10-15 % of Mahindra XUV700 and Scorpio N are AWD/ 4WD.

As pointed out by a lot of members, Thar has become a lifestyle brand and most owners don't really take it off the road. With a good GC and RWD set up, it will do well in most situations even when taken off the road.

What the market seems to be valuing is creature comfort ( Auto transmission), the looks and fuel efficiency.

I use a 4 WD Safari Storme, the only time i have used 4 WD is when i have taken the vehicle off the road on purpose or in the winter trips to Spiti. Even, in our SOUL group most Safari's ( Dicors and Stormes) are 2 WD. It is only a handful of people who bought the 4 WD variants and some of them only when they had participated in the Off roading on a couple of occasions.

The purists can keep buying the 4 WD Thar ( Petrol/ Diesel) . The BS6 Diesels have issues when taken to high altitude locations and are not as reliable as the BS3/ BS4 Diesels.

The 2 WD Thar will give an option to the people who want to buy a RWD ladder frame SUV which is not overwhelmed by huge screens and technology.

More power to Mahindra and may more manufacturers join the club and expand the choice offered to SUV buyers.

[asingh1977]

Will 4x2 also come in the day 5 door variant. That would be interesting. Anyways, for many the 4x4 was a bit too much in expenditure. Mahindra has really made this a car: to want, since they put in automatic with petrol. I see so many people using this variant in NCR. Road presence, ease of drive, absolutely no bullying by rash drivers. From going to shopping, malls, dropping kids to school. Hardly lifestyle, it is a regular go-to "car" now. The 4x2 will make this more approachable specially in terms of pricing. Many families were not inclined to pump in 14+, and then climb in using the front reclined seat. Now under 9L, it can be the often used 2nd car! Hope floats.

[Knightrider]

This is indeed a good move by Mahindra. There are many folks who do not want 4x4 but want to own a Thar. This will sell well, but may cannibalize it's cousin the Bolero Neo. With a difference of 1-2 lakhs between the two, many buyers would stretch their budget and go for 2WD Thar if they don't need a 5+2 seater.

[AROO7]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

By contrast, all these newer turbo engines, while they are very much more powerful and all, need to still spool up to deliver. And the moment the vehicle loses momentum, they spool back down again and one has to keep them fed to spool back up.

Twin turbocharging where one is an electric turbocharger and the other one is a normal turbocharger is the best solution to this. But seeing the cars and the segment in which these are offered right now it will take not less than a decade to trickle down to mainstream cars. Till then as you said there is no replacement to displacement .

[Knightrider]

New Bronze colour spotted in Thar 2WD.

Pics courtesy: 91wheels