[kosjam]

Originally Posted by Karthik Mathur

Will there be an impact on the performance of vehicles due to E20?

Better efficiency while driving as ethanol is more energy dense (lower emissions and cleaner running engine), but lower fuel efficiency overall.

You might be confused how cum better efficiency still gives lower FE, and the answer to that is the energy density is calculated and fuel (in this case ethanol mixed petrol) mass and fuel economy is calculated per litre of fuel burned. Since the petrol is metered per litre and not per kg, it will result in lower FE. This is because ethanol is less dense than petrol.

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

I really hope what you mentioned is what Manf follow. However, below is a snapshot taken from my Octavia's manual and this worries me.
Attachment 2415670

Can you give an idea as to how old this vehicle is? the newer the vehicle, the better the chances that there will not be any major damage to your engine components.

[neoonwheels]

Originally Posted by kosjam

Can you give an idea as to how old this vehicle is? the newer the vehicle, the better the chances that there will not be any major damage to your engine components.

Oh this is Octavia mark IV (A8) which is on sale currently

[Djay]

Originally Posted by BoneCollector

The Grand Vitara manual has this to say about petrol-ethanol blend.

Basically, they've thrown the ball in the owner's court. Use 20% blend at your own jurisdiction (risk) and switch back to 10% if not satisfied.

I think that disclaimer is a standard one. It was also in the manual I downloaded in September 2022 which does not mention E20 compatibility (attached). It seems Grand Vitara currently sold is already E20 compliant based on the manual. Surprising Maruti hasn't announced this officially.

[Karthik Mathur]

Originally Posted by kosjam

Better efficiency while driving as ethanol is more energy dense (lower emissions and cleaner running engine), but lower fuel efficiency overall.

I actually meant more in terms of acceleration. Would more ethanol have a negative impact on those parameters?

[arjab]

In India not many existing vehicles are Ethanol friendly.
The earlier Honda's, (the snub nosed model), were all E-10 compatible. Then, I think Honda made most of their engines E-15 compatible. All the old FIAT petrol engines, (Uno, Palio, Siena, Punto, Linea) were E-15 compliant (Fiat never advertised it!

E-20 compatibility amongst the existing vehicle parc, I am not sure, how many vehicles would be compliant. I believe some new cars or E-20 compatible models of existing cars on sale will be produced by OEM's soon.
Ethanol attacks the rubber & plastic components, particularly the <PA66> grade engineered plastics which are commonly used in fuel lines, fuel pumps etc. Metallic parts are not a worry. Also there may be a drop in fuel efficiency and a minor drop in power.

A detailed validation is required before rolling out ethanol doped petrol. Maybe a choice can be given to customer to buy between E-10 doping and E-20 doping petrol. Much like 95 octane, 100 octane petrol choices.
otherwise older cars - BS-IV and earlier may have issues.

[Knightrider]

Article in today's TOI on the effect of E20 on existing vehicles:

An Indian study on the suitability of using E20 in existing vehicles found: “metals and metal coatings had no issue with E20. Elastomers had inferior performance with E20 compared to neat gasoline. Plastic PA66 had a drop in tensile strength after use with E20. ”

Automotive Research Association of India (ARAI), Indian Institute of Petroleum (IIP) and Indian Oil Corporation (R&D) that did the research in 2014-15 also found that fuel economy decreased by up to 6% (depending on the vehicle type), on average. However, the test vehicles passed startability and drivability tests under hot and cold conditions with pure petrol and E20 test fuels. In all the cases, there was no severe malfunction or stall observed at any stage of vehicle operation. No abnormal wear of engine components or deposits or deposits or deterioration of engine oi ls were observed after the on-road mileage accumulation trials.

Read here

[kosjam]

Originally Posted by Karthik Mathur

I actually meant more in terms of acceleration. Would more ethanol have a negative impact on those parameters?

There was a 6% drop in performance is what I read in some newspaper reports.
But this is a small enough drop that the average person may not even feel it, given the variables like road condition, tyre pressure, number of occupants and/or luggage, time of day (hotter the air around you, lower the performance).... the list is endless.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Knightrider

Article in today's TOI on the effect of E20 on existing vehicles

Looking forward to insights from members on which parts in cars exactly have the E20 petrol impacted PA66 plastics and elastomers in them. I was fearing that fuel injectors may get affected by E20 petrol, but all I see mentioned as impacted by it in this TOI article are plastics.

[Vibhav-Van]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

However, below is a snapshot taken from my Octavia's manual and this worries me.

This is worrying. Even Kushaq's manual states the same thing. Not sure if this is for the 1.0L or 1.5 TSI.



I think the 1.5 TSI was available in Europe for quite some time now. In that case, shouldn't it be E20 compliant already?

[harikishanb]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Diesel is the only real choice here, the running is inconsequential. There is no point choosing an engine which will be dicontinued in a few weeks, and is sure to be a handful to own over time. And the NA petrol is weak for highway use.



Right now, the only way to find out is to ask the petrol pump attendants. They might know. The owner/manager of the pump know, and they come to know that the lot they are getting is E10 or E15 or whatever only once the tanker is billed to them. So, it is possible that the information may be conveyed to the attendants running the floor. But there is no gaurantee. Fact is that the petrol pumps have no control over what fuel they get from the depot.

In any case, we are already well past the E10 threashold of legacy engines.

Dear Shreyans_Jain, I am wondering about the impact on the resale value of normal petrol cars after all the car manufacturers start selling petrol cars with flex engines. Several car manufacturers have anyway removed diesel cars and everyone seems to be busy pushing petrol cars in the market. I get a feeling that it's going the CNG way meaning first create awareness about CNG being the cheapest fuel option then consumers buy a lot of CNG cars and then government increases the CNG prices quietly. CNG prices have increased by over 60% which is a big jump compared to petrol and diesel. Owners of CNG cars may feel cheated because they never imagined that CNG prices will shoot up.

Is there any prediction on the price points of the E20-compliant petrol cars and E20 fuel prices? I won't be surprised if the flex engine cars will be sold at a premium just because they are going to bring down our running cost. Everyone gets excited and flex engine petrol cars create new sales records and suddenly government starts increasing the prices of E20 fuel. This makes me believe that diesel cars are here to stay but it gets frustrating to learn that several diesel cars don't have AT options.

[Osteon206]

We had anticipated this would happen. This was another reason for choosing Taigun over Creta.

https://www.zigwheels.com/news-featu...8723/?is_amp=1

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by Osteon206

We had anticipated this would happen. This was another reason for choosing Taigun over Creta.

https://www.zigwheels.com/news-featu...8723/?is_amp=1

It is interesting to note that the SAVWIPL CEO during a media event claims that the Kushaq and Taigun are E20 compliant, but the owner’s manual of the cars clearly states otherwise. What is written in bold is that ethanol blend of more than 10% is not to be used. Clearly, one party is mistaken. What gives?

[Osteon206]

Despite my previous post, after going through the manual even I’m a little worried now since the manual doesn’t mention E20 compliance. But I remember the sales exec telling me that the Taigun and Kushaq are E20 compliant. I share the same anxiety as neoonwheels & Vibhav-Van now.
But VW and Skoda have participated in the rally so confidently, so I guess the cars are E20 compliant - keeping fingers crossed wishing for this. I hope it’s not for made in India kushaq and Taigun that are being exported to other countries alone.

A picture from the Taigun manual

[baarish84]

As per Toyota Hyryder user manual, car is compatible with E20 fuel. However Toyota advises to revert back to E10 if not satisfied with driveability or fuel efficiency! Hence Toyota also reckons FE may actually be lower than E10.

Copy pasted relevant text from manual below.

Fuel Recommendation

Petrol Engine

To avoid damaging catalytic converter, you must use unleaded petrol with an octane number (RON) of 91 or higher.

Gasoline/Ethanol blends
Blends of unleaded gasoline and ethanol (grain alcohol), also known as gasohol, are commercially available in certain areas. Blends of this type are recommended for this vehicle if they are no more than 10% ethanol. The vehicle may also be plied with blend of no more than 20% ethanol.

NOTE:
If you are not satisfied with the driveability or fuel economy of your vehicle when you are using 20% ethanol blend, you should switch back to blend of no more than 10% ethanol.

Gasoline containing MTBE
Unleaded gasoline containing MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) may be used in your vehicle if the MTBE content is not greater than 15%. This oxygenated fuel does not contain alcohol.

[Safedriver2023]

Skoda kushaq manual says max e10 blend only permitted