[Sumedik]

I have been following this thread closely and it seems that a lot of people believe that problems will start when E10 is discontinued. However, ethanol in petrol issue prevails today itself as we speak, mainly due to its hygroscopic nature.

The problem lies at source: the petrol pumps and thus it is beyond our control. As of today:

1. We are susceptible getting water with fuel.
2. We get VARIABLE percentage of ethanol with petrol, which can easily be greater than 10%

Ethanol blending has such bad effects that even petrol pumps are concerned.

Here are 2 old articles from West Bengal which throw light on the issue.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/53069411.cms

https://www.news18.com/news/india/be...l-4147619.html

In case your car is behaving a little strange lately and you are getting variable milage between tankfulls, now you know why!

[carZest]

On a lighter note!

Today, I checked the fuel tank filter, front filter and the carburettor of my 1989 ambassador. No sign of rust and the carburettor runs fine. Having tackled BS2, BS3, BS4, BS6, BS6 E10, she should weather this E20 challenge too. Fingers crossed ��

[ptaneja]

With regards to Carens / Kia, though the manual says E10 compatible, but when I opened up a case with SC, and eventually with lot of escalations etc got a reply from Kia directly stating this -

"our gasoline vehicles are tested and certified for use of E20 mixed fuel, so there will be no damage/adverse effect to the engine"

Of course this is in contradiction to what they have in their car manual
..

[ar.abc]

I bought a BS6 phase 1 baleno last year in august 2022. I read the owner's manual. The recommended fuel is maximum E10 (10% ethanol blend). If by 2025, E10 petrol is discontinued completely and owners like me are forced to refuel E20 petrol, then it seems unfair considering the damage to the engine parts in the long run. And of course add to that, the sharp fall of resale value of E10 compatible cars. Should owners of brand new E10 petrol compatible cars sell off their newly purchased cars and upgrade to BS6 phase 2 E20 petrol compatible cars? Sounds ridiculous! And of course I feel cheated.

Originally Posted by navrddy

Fronx has 2 engine options; 1.2L Engine which is same like in Baleno and new 1L TGDI engine. Having said that, 1.2L Baleno Engine is E20 Material complaint (refer to owner's manual) but looks like not E20 fuel optimized, So expect slight drop in performance and fuel efficiency (~5-8%).
1L TGDI engine, are unknown area though with respect to E20 fuel compatible.
Ideally OEM should Alteast make it clear during product launch. In any case, it is safer to go with 1.2L Engine at this point of time.

I own a Baleno zeta 2022 model bought in august 2022. I checked the owner's manual and the fuel recommendation is E10 only. Can you please let me know on which page in the manual it is mentioned that the baleno engine has E20 compliant material?

[robincsamuel]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

"our gasoline vehicles are tested and certified for use of E20 mixed fuel, so there will be no damage/adverse effect to the engine"

Of course this is in contradiction to what they have in their car manual
..

Are sure they are not talking about the BS6.2 cars? Did they mention anything as such, like from which year or so? I think it’s important to clarify since when they started making E20 compliant vehicles.

[FrozeninTime]

I feel auto companies have basically tuned the engine's ECU to make it E20-compliant rather than making any structural changes to engine components.
So time will tell how the engines of the E20 are going to perform in the long run.

[ptaneja]

Originally Posted by robincsamuel

Are sure they are not talking about the BS6.2 cars? Did they mention anything as such, like from which year or so? I think it’s important to clarify since when they started making E20 compliant vehicles.

They are talking about 2022 manufactured vehicle - because their response was on a formal ticket opened with them citing my car's registration number + VIN number.

[navrddy]

In latest baleno manual 2023, it is mentioned that upto 20% ethanol is allowed. So it means that vehicle should be atleast material complaint to absorb e20 fuel.At the same time manual also mentions if driveability is not as acceptable at E20, switch to lower grade blends like E15 or E10. Also manual does not mention anywhere about flex fuel sensor which is crucial to tell us what kind of blend ratio to ECU, so that accordingly ECU can adjust combustion parameters based on ethanol content. Final conclusion seems to be that currently ECU has no way of understanding what type of fuel is being filled E10/E15/E20.

Originally Posted by ar.abc

I own a Baleno zeta 2022 model bought in august 2022. I checked the owner's manual and the fuel recommendation is E10 only. Can you please let me know on which page in the manual it is mentioned that the baleno engine has E20 compliant material?

Currently not tuned, since there is no flex fuel sensor to tell us what kind of blend ratio fuel is available. Only material complainence.

Originally Posted by FrozeninTime

I feel auto companies have basically tuned the engine's ECU to make it E20-compliant rather than making any structural changes to engine components.
So time will tell how the engines of the E20 are going to perform in the long run.

Unfortunately, I was checking Brezza 2023 manual. There is no mention of E20 fuel wording. Max allowed is only e10.
Whereas e20 complaint in i20, Baleno, Fronx, Grand Vitara.

Also, I note that my old antique f10d wagon r , was giving excellent mileage of around 18 on highways until apr.2023. post Apr.2023, highway mileage figures dropped to around 15, measured tank to tankful twice. I am not sure if this is related to higher blend of ethanol>10%.
By the way, my vehicle is not designed to accommodate more than 5% ethanol blend. Maybe others can check and confirm, if mileage figures are downturn post apr.2023.

[KadiNiSikhiya]

I switched to Xtrapower/Power for my July 2022 i20 from last month and I have noticed a markable improvement in efficiency and engine characteristics such as engine noise and acceleration. Guess normal petrol isn't going to cut anymore for a lot of non-E20 engines.

[SSD2122]

In the global launch of Honda's Elevate SUV today, they clearly mentioned that it would be E20 compliant. Full marks to them for this. I hope the manual too will have it clearly mentioned.

[dijkstraind]

Originally Posted by navrddy

Unfortunately, I was checking Brezza 2023 manual. There is no mention of E20 fuel wording. Max allowed is only e10.
Whereas e20 complaint in i20, Baleno, Fronx, Grand Vitara.

The brezza you are referring to was manufactured in which month of 2023?
I have seen screenshots posted by people saying it is e20 compliant.

[navrddy]

I have taken reference from latest breeza manual 2023, downloaded(June.2023) from Maruti website. I am also still confused why certain nexa models 2023 can tolerate upto e20, whereas certain arena models cannot.

Originally Posted by dijkstraind

The brezza you are referring to was manufactured in which month of 2023?
I have seen screenshots posted by people saying it is e20 compliant.

[dijkstraind]

Originally Posted by navrddy

I have taken reference from latest breeza manual 2023, downloaded(June.2023) from Maruti website. I am also still confused why certain nexa models 2023 can tolerate upto e20, whereas certain arena models cannot.

Someone has shared this image from the manual on Facebook. Maybe it is not updated on their website

[robincsamuel]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

They are talking about 2022 manufactured vehicle - because their response was on a formal ticket opened with them citing my car's registration number + VIN number.

I too mailed Kia requesting clarification after seeing your post. I got a call from the service center and they were clueless. So I asked them to transfer to the manufacturer or relevant department and they did that.

I got a call today from the service advisor that they got a response and they forwarded the email since I wasn't included in the original response.

It reads,

from xxxxx@kiaindia.net

Dear All,

Our vehicles are compliant with E20 fuel. Please inform the customer and ask him not to have any apprehension.

Honestly, I don't feel so confident about this response or the response @ptaneja got from Kia. It feels vague and I'm not even sure they've considered the VIN or model year.

Therefore, I requested them them the following,

The owner's manual explicitly says "Damage caused by usage of fuel containing more than 10% ethanol will not be covered under warranty". Please confirm that my 2021 Kia Sonet 1.0 TGDI vehicle is compatible with E20 fuel and that any damage that arises due to the usage of E20 fuel will be covered under warranty.

Kia released a press release on March 21, 2023 stating, "All Petrol powertrains are now E20 fuel compatible". Why does it say so if all previous vehicles too are compatible?

Additionally, I request Kia to release a press note, if that's the case, for the peace of mind of the customers.

I'll post the response here if I get a reply.

[ComboCutter]

What are the Ministries of Road Transport and Highways, Petroleum and Heavy Industry doing?

Having announced E20 regulations long ago, they should have formulated and enforced laws to ensure the consumer is informed what fuel they are putting in their vehicles. Even makes a great campaign politically for them - they can put banners in all bunks and informational videos online and in theatres.

I keep hearing and reading that E10/E12/E15/E20 petrol is the normal now from different sources, and it is disheartening to knowingly refuel with an incompatible fuel. (even on my two wheelers)

The agencies should atleast be able to keep of list of vehicles that are E20 compliant and from which Manufacturing month.

Useless institutions like ARAI are certifying mileages recorded based on fuel that is no longer available to the customer. They should atleast take steps to revise their testing methodologies closer to WLTP and be more transparent. The very least it should be enforced that future mileage certifications should be done only on E20 fuel.

Wish mass-market EVs were here sooner (not even going think about the myriad of regulations they are going to drop on ICE cars once EVs are more prevalent)