[vharihar]

EVs are duping you about carbon emissions. Govt should let diesel cars run longer ...

https://theprint.in/opinion/dashboar...onger/1622448/

Spot on article, fully agree.

[Gupts007]

Originally Posted by humyum

I got my Diesel Innova in 2022 October, I paid road tax for 15 years. I live in Mumbai which easily has a population of million plus.

Why was I sold the car in the first place and that too which costed so much if I was not going to be allowed to use or keep it in the city that I live in?

If they want to implement it, why not stop every diesel car to be registered and sold in cities with million plus population and then say from today in 15 years this scheme will be implemented?

Looks like Hitler Raj with arbitrary though process morons ruling the roost.

The govt is lost in formulating its policy towards cleaning the environment due to vehicular pollution. As a result their diktat is erratic and without sound base. They are trying to tackle the problem from all ends, by banning
diesels, limiting petrol vehicles feasible life and promoting EVs.

On paper it may look like a good move but the execution is where they are failing. The banning of diesels should not be done abruptly and without taking in the interests of people who have recently purchased their diesel vehicles. They need to choose a distant date well in advance so people can make informed choices when buying a diesel vehicle. Issuing diktats like we will ban all diesel vehicles from 2027 is autocratic and quite unfair to people who have paid 50% tax to the govt when they bought their vehicles.

What is a govt trying to achieve by imposing a cold turkey ban on diesels? The entire goods transport industry runs on diesel. Even the interstate buses are all diesel run. The local buses in most big cities are being converted to EV but even that is going to take a lot of time considering how poor the resources are. The govt does not want to reduce its tax imposed on EV as its the same as it is on the ICE vehicles. Their actions clearly contradicting their alleged intentions.

The govt can sometimes make some really senseless rules like having to renew your PUC certificate every 6 months so it is quite possible that they can just ban diesels or anything for that matter at a whim. In Chandigarh for example they have stopped registration of ICE 2 wheelers from July and the plan is to stop ICE 4 wheeler registration from Dec 23. The policy should be central and imposed in phases unlike just waking up one day and signing off an autocratic order.

I want to know if pollution per km for a diesel vehicle is more than pollution per km for a similar petrol vehicle? I've got both a Baleno Diesel and a Baleno Petrol. The diesel easily gives me 22km per lit whereas the newer Petrol struggles to give anything above 15km per lit.

[CARDEEP]

The power grid statistics are something government needs to consider before letting babus & judiciary run riot in name of environmentalism & going for soft targets.

I’m sure the increased demand for electricity is to some extent caused by increasing number of electric vehicles (public & private both).

With fossil fuels being the main source of electricity, I’m sure we are just beating around the bush (I was CFO in NGO working on quite a few environmental projects, so believe I have some information on this topic).

They should actively work work on electricity generation from non-renewable resources first then take such actions. Every time they suggest & implement any stupid thing the pollution levels in NCR spike up (opposite of what is expected). Clearly the policy makers have lost it over past 2 decades.

[true_sedan]

There are plenty of issues that plague our country like access to clean drinking water, food security, corruption at all levels of government, renewable energy and waste management to name a few. Instead babus at national and state level have found a soft target - auto industry. Year after year it’s one after the other:
1) Diesel was banned in NCR. It was a bad move as 1 litre of diesel is equal to 2 litres of petrol in terms of efficiency. So people have to pay more to buy a fuel that is equally polluting.
2) Harsh BS6 norms that mandates DEF(popularly called adblue), SCR, the infamous DPF which clogs up frequently and requires running your car for half hour with no purpose to clear the clog.
3) Not providing tax benefits for switching over to strong hybrids which come close to providing diesels FE.
4) Messing with road taxes.
5) Threat of diesel vehicle ban by 2027. Government should come clean about this and not shortchange diesel car buyers with last minute announcements. My guess is 2025 will sound the death knell for all passenger segment diesel cars. From there a complete ban by 2040 is possible.

A very grim scene for the Indian automotive industry. And babus are having a field day with car manufacturers and buyers.

[sid3091]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

There are plenty of issues that plague our country like access to clean drinking water, food security, corruption at all levels of government, renewable energy and waste management to name a few. Instead babus at national and state level have found a soft target - auto industry.

Honestly the only way to deal with these babus is how the French did it. Complete civil disobedience and unruliness that would make these brain-dead policymakers fear for their safety. They ONLY get away with it because Indians are too docile (in this regard. In most other parameters we're unruly, bordering on uncouth)

[OneToughRider]

Well, may be the first time in years I'd gone through entire forum discussion.

I need some credible advice on this topic. Irrespective of this policy implementation by 2027, does it makes sense to buy a diesel vehicle as on date? I agree with our members who say, current govt makes nasty, quick decisions without considering impact on citizens. India relies heavily on diesels, not just in automobiles/commercial segments, also in other industries.

I am not in the favor of EVs but hybrids? Yes (Why to own range anxiety).
Fcell/Hydrogen has a long way to come. India is not developed and matured as the West, not sure why some of us are even comparing.

Mahindra invest heavily in diesels, to some extent corporates has influence on govt. I don't feel diesels will go away by 2027, at least BS6 onwards.

Being a budget conscious person, I am planning to replace my Linea MJD with Bolero Neo N10 (O). It costs less on BH registration, a great VFM package and good for cities/areas where roads aren't so good. I am native to Delhi NCR and living in Pune. Pune or western side of coastal India doesn't have great infrastructure as we have in the North. Not blaming govt, or the authorities, western ghats receive heavy rainfall and road repairing works goes throughout the year.

Current Bolero comes with BS6.2 engine. Question is shall I go ahead and buy Bolero Neo N10, or shall I go for a preused TUV 300 with BS4 engine, or shall I stop considering diesels at all?

p.s: No budget for Hybrid Innova/EV, don't wish to spend more than 12-13 lakh on depreciated asset. I personally feel spending 20+ lakhs on a people mover is a waste of money.

TIA

[ObsessedByFIAT]

Originally Posted by OneToughRider

p.s: No budget for Hybrid Innova/EV, don't wish to spend more than 12-13 lakh on depreciated asset. I personally feel spending 20+ lakhs on a people mover is a waste of money.

TIA

This is exactly what I feel too and having sold my trusted Ecosport Diesel last Saturday, I am in market for a new car.
Although I love the diesel torque and the fuel efficiency, I am dropping all diesel options from my consideration list for the simple fact that knee jerk decisions are aplenty these days. I do not want to own a 20+lac depreciating asset and then get short changed because of some unreasonable decision. Additionally, I do not want to make unnecessary service station visits for getting DPF issues sorted/addressed. I am no cab driver who clocks 100s of kilometres everyday.

Turbo petrols are another option which would provide similar torque figures at half the fuel efficiency of a comparable diesel. So those are again out of the consideration list.

Long story short, I am looking for naturally aspirated petrol engine driven cars within 15 lac and just call it a day.
In a few years we will have more clarity on which way the market moves.

[epiccross]

I was in the same boat regarding the dilemma of whether to go for a diesel or petrol. In the end I went for Sonet D AT primarily because the drivetrain is the best in segment, but also you end up getting pretty decent FE for an auto box while being fun to drive. Honestly, I don't think this will materialize, a lot of diesel cabs/private vehicles out and implementing it in Delhi is one thing, but rolling it out nationwide is another. But I agree that times are pretty tough for Diesel owners :(


Plus the whole E10/E20 thing means that Petrols are not safe either, kneejerk reactions could hurt all of our ICE vehicles one way or the other. My next car will be an EV, but till then I intend to enjoy my last diesel! And unless EVs become affordable enough, there are no effective replacements for diesels and their great FE and torque.

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by OneToughRider

...
I don't feel diesels will go away by 2027, at least BS6 onwards.
...

This is the subtle point that everyone skipping Diesels are overlooking - even in last year's blanket ban in Delhi NCR, BS6 vehicles were excluded.

My personal opinion after looking at similar actions and reports - govt. may eventually phase out non-BS6 vehicles starting with the oldest BS1/ BS2 vehicles over, say, the next 10 or 15 years. And then do the same for BS3/ BS4 vehicles over another 10 or 15.

There might also be graded phase out timelines between private and commercial vehicles.

By the time this kind of an action comes to BS6 vehicles, the worry will not be about Diesels getting banned, but will be about all internal combustion engines, and the sweet notes we are used to from the fossil fuel driven engines themselves being banned - Petrol and Diesel both

So my advice to friends and family has been to go ahead and buy Diesel cars if the usage substantiates it, and if they are not primarily going to just in a city car.

[Sebring]

India runs on diesel, and it will be tough to put it away

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

So my advice to friends and family has been to go ahead and buy Diesel cars if the usage substantiates it, and if they are not primarily going to just in a city car.

[SaiSW]

Pretty sure they mean to stop new diesel vehicle sales from 2027 onwards and not an outright ban on them.

I just bought a diesel vehicle and I've paid 15 year road tax for it and if they outright ban diesels after SCAMMING me for 15 years taxes, I will take them to Court no matter how much the legal expenses end up being, and I'm pretty sure I won't be alone in doing so.

[OneToughRider]

Thank you everyone.

Originally Posted by SaiSW

Pretty sure they mean to stop new diesel vehicle sales from 2027 onwards and not an outright ban on them.

I just bought a diesel vehicle and I've paid 15 year road tax for it and if they outright ban diesels after SCAMMING me for 15 years taxes, I will take them to Court no matter how much the legal expenses end up being, and I'm pretty sure I won't be alone in doing so.

Not sure what sense does it makes to ban a market ready diesel vehicle, that it can't be registered in the state (other than Northern UTs like Delhi and Chandigarh with idiocratic rules).

10 years ban is only in NCR, DL registered cars gets deregistered, rest can be transferred to other cities within same state, however no 10+ year old diesel can ply in Delhi limits for sure.

MH is pretty lenient on this, have seen 17-18 years old Qualis, Sumo plying in Pune. Well maintained Sienna, Palio, Esteems, Vistas, Vernas with less than a lakh km on ODO. When I tell this to folks in Delhi, they laugh at me .

[Proud BRV Owner]

Hello all,

My queries are pretty much novice in the nature, but after a lot of searching, I am yet to arrive at a definitive conclusion.

I live in Rajkot, Gujarat. I own a diesel vehicle. Manufacturing year is 2016. The registration validity is till 2032.

According to current policy..

1. How long can I continue to drive this car?
2. Is there any compulsive scrapping deadline?
3. If there are compelling reason to sell it NOW, does it make more sense to go for a petrol or hybrid rather than a diesel?

Please answer, because after a long thought I have decide not to change my car unless a very compelling reason - like drastic reduction in re-sale / ban in selling it after 2025-26.

Why?
A. Because it is still running very nicely.
B. Giving me a fuel economy of 20+
C. I LOVE IT!!!!

Regards,
Paritosh A. Jani

[true_sedan]

Going a bit off topic(request Mods to move to appropriate thread) since I’m seeing a lot of discussion here about an unannounced looming diesel ban. My gut feeling is diesels will not be banned anytime soon in the next 15-20 years.
My thoughts:
1) Central Government cannot impose a blanket diesel ban on the whole of India. Federalism in India doesn’t work that way. Only individual state governments can do that.
2) Most of the state governments don’t dole out blanket bans on income streams bringing in tax revenue.
3) State governments have to face elections. Banning a popular car type like diesel may cost them thousands of votes which they absolutely abhor.
4) In continuance to the above point Delhi NCR was and still is in an unenviable position of being the worlds most polluted city. A number of factors like being landlocked, stubble burning and unfavourable air currents. So, it had to do the unpopular and bring a diesel ban.

Governments all over India have understood that banning private diesels cars is an unpopular move that does little to curb pollution. They know that the biggest polluters are their own buses and lorries that cough black smoke on the road because of poor maintenance. Atleast BS6 onwards diesels have become less polluting and have reached petrol levels of emissions.

Right now the world is swinging between two emerging technologies: EVs and Hydrogen powered cars. Until one or the other technology becomes a viable alternative, diesel cars will not be banned and hence you’re safe for the next 15-20 years from today. IMHO, I think diesel cars will be gone for good by 2045-2050 and all ICE powered cars by 2070.

Cheers!

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

Going a bit off topic(request Mods to move to appropriate thread) since I’m seeing a lot of discussion here about an unannounced looming diesel ban. My gut feeling is diesels will not be banned anytime soon in the next 15-20 years.
My thoughts:
1) Central Government cannot impose a blanket diesel ban on the whole of India. Federalism in India doesn’t work that way. Only individual state governments can do that.
2) Most of the state governments don’t dole out blanket bans on income streams bringing in tax revenue.

The ban in Delhi NCR was brought in neither by the center, nor by any state government. It was done by the NGT. NGT is not answerable to any elected government or their representatives. It is similar to the Supreme Court, and governments are bound to implement its diktats.

If tomorrow, the NGT decides to extend the ban to other Tier I cities, there is not a thing any state government can do about it. They will have to execute and implement it.

All governments know that private car buyers are the easiest to target and show the least resistance to any regulation that screws them over. Best way for them to show that they are doing something for pollution, without actually doing anything meaningful.