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20th September 2009, 21:48 | #151 | |||
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According to the initial fuel efficiency reports coming from team-bhpians, the Linea seems to be more fuel efficient when compared to the SX4 and the Fiesta 1.6 I said earlier people buy a car they see maximum value in. I dont find value in the ANHC... its an average car with a good engine and to me a car is sum total of all the parts and not just the engine. | |||
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20th September 2009, 21:53 | #152 | |
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Yes feather light if you compare it with the European competition. Going over a series of potholes just brings about the limitations of the car's build and road manners. I am not speaking out of thin air. I have driven both the ANHC and Jazz and found the ride and handling to be average compared to the Linea, Punto couplet. The engine in Jazz runs out of breath at low revs, you really need to give it a stick for it to move at a decent pace. I still maintain that 1.5 Litre Vtech engine is a good one but the whole car doesnt cut it for me... but then it could just be me. Last edited by extreme_torque : 20th September 2009 at 21:56. | |
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20th September 2009, 21:56 | #153 | |
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20th September 2009, 22:25 | #154 | ||||||
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On the safety part, there are folks who have taken their cars (that belongs to the segment that we are now debating on) to 180kmph and that car didn't even have airbags or ABS. How is ANHC that offers ABS, BA and Airbags as standard in all its variants not the safest? Quote:
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20th September 2009, 22:26 | #155 | ||
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Second highest selling petrol in the segment : SX4. Linea sells because of diesel, similar is true for Fiesta, Verna also. Only SX4 and G3HC are the offering with only one petrol engine option. Even Accent has alternative fuel version ( IIRC ). Quote:
Note that acceleration and ride are compared with Baleno, a car that pulls well in high end and rides better than most sedans can do ( overall ). G3HC comes in its own in city driving where the car is naturally into the environment. Ovreall, again I repeat, G3HC is not good enough to command more than Rs. 1 lakh premium over SX4. | ||
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20th September 2009, 22:34 | #156 |
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| I personally still think Honda is certainly overpricing even the City. Simply put, the car charges a huge premium over its immediate competitors and for that premium the least it can do is match its competitors on features. It already charges a more than adequate premium for the aspects where it betters its competitors. Given that, it has no business under - speccing the car. A few other factors to bring up here. While the car is lauded for its FE, we need to bear in mind that its severely under-tired. This results in better FE results for the bulk of the user market. Any enthusiast (such as - presumably - many on T-BHP community) would go for a tyre upgrade on day zero. One must not only add such upgrade cost but also consider how much the FE is impacted and then re-assess the City for its merits. If after taking into account expenses such as alloys, tire upgrade; re-grading FE based on tyre upgrade; we should assess what the cost of the car comes out to and whether all its advantages (such as great engine) add up anywhere close to the price differential between the City and its competitors. Would I still buy it? Perhaps yes because I am a sucker for the best engine. Is it VFM. No way !!! For the above reasons, I am keen on some mfgr coming along and giving me a viable alternative to the City. Just as an example - I would readily buy a Linea at City price if it came with a higher spec diesel / petrol engine. |
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20th September 2009, 23:00 | #157 | ||||||||||
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My Indigo went for its regular service to Tata Motors. One of the reported problems was the aircon fresh - recirculate switch not working. Service advisor "Saar, that is a known bug with the Indigo. Please don't use it at all, after all, why would you?". I then had the manager of the service center drop me a line. He also stated that its a problem if used frequently & best to avoid using it (changed under warranty though). Now, the question is : WHY accept failure? When the manufacturer of a car "accepts" that somethings just wont work, and aren't worth bothering about, that says a lot of the standards they set for themselves. To give you a parallel, a Lexus (Toyota) lady customer complained about the way that the pedals were positioned, and that it led to her sandal heel breaking into two. Lexus sent someone to her place overnight, the diligent engineer observed usage, went back and changed the pedal design to better accomodate high heels. They even offered existing Lexus owners an upgrade when their car came in for service. Or, how there were complaints of the hatchback operation of a certain model Civic. Honda hired two guys, full time, to only open / close the hatch the entire day. They repeated the operation like a million times, found a fault and rectified it ASAP. THAT is attention to detail. There is a reason why Honda & Toyota have the global fan following that they do. Quote:
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Look up Shantanu's service costs also. For the record, the minor services for my Vtec have cost <1000 rupees, the medium ones 1500 - 1800 (rarely even 2000) and the major ones 5,000 (once in two years). Quote:
Interior cleaning have nothing to do with Honda, nor the way they have engineered their cars. And we accept very well that the after-market is best for such jobs. In the last 5 years of detailing my Benz & Vtec, I have always referred to the after-market. Quote:
And then, you'll surely agree that the parts of HOnda & Toyota are amongst the most durable? I remember a flyer by Toyota which compared the Corollas cost of ownership to that of the Octavia over 50,000 kms. The Corolla cost less than 25K, the Octavia about 65K. Last edited by GTO : 20th September 2009 at 23:11. | ||||||||||
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20th September 2009, 23:03 | #158 | ||
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EDIT1: @GTO: The service cost is very similar to that of any brand new sedan delivered, the 'costly to maintain" iKON in my hands never saw a bill of more than 2500 Rs @ regular service, in my ownership experience of 48000 kms, usual bill was around 1250-1500 Rs. And i think you need to look into things like wheel balancing and wheel alignment more than interior cleaning when you refer to my quote Twice i paid around 3k INR (for repair of wheel bearining and fuel canister) and one fuel injector @8K (all due to very long non usage periods), and hence the cheap service never make a case for me. If so then i dont see a differnce between a Honda and Ford lol Especially when the iKON used to go in for regular service well over 8k kms, where as the Honda's at 5k kms. See here also the usage matters, i drive and take care of my car's better, where as my bro's cars are used "normally". And normally used Honda's are like any other brand. I am not disputing your experience, but i for a fact know that regular joe lands up paying more @ dealers for regular service. When you talk about timing belt cost, hope you are referring to ANHC's cost, an out dated model should find cheaper parts. Last edited by Jaggu : 20th September 2009 at 23:21. | ||
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20th September 2009, 23:19 | #159 | ||||
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b) Let's see how the OHC VTEC and the ANHC stack up ? * OHC VTEC : 9xx kg ; ANHC iVTEC : 1100kg - So ANHC is heavier than OHC VTEC by >100kg * Low rpm driveability in OHC VTEC was poor (compared to OHC 1.5), while ANHC iVTEC provides driveability and performance through the rpm range (no VTEC crossover point for higher profile cam) * ANHC iVTEC optimizes FE. ANHC is a much bigger car than OHC VTEC, weighs heavier, and still has higher FE than OHC VTEC. * ANHC has better in-gear acceleration than OHC VTEC. So, all the higher bhp and torque is being put to good use. But the emphasis is to balance in city driveability and FE with outright acceleration. There is no doubt that the iVTEC is class above the old VTEC in terms of engine tech and capability. Please also use measures like specific bhp and torque (i.e. bhp/l and torque/l) to realize the improvement in the engine. BTW, which car is beating the OHC VTEC in 0-100 even today in the C/C+ segment ? Quote:
And one could say that the Linea has too much emphasis on styling which results in a larger exterior dimensions, with lower rear legroom and headroom, and weighs unnecessarily higher ? Question of form over function, while the ANHC/Jap cars go for function over form or atleast a different balance ? Safety comes foremost from body shell design, crumple zones, crash reinforced sections etc ? Having a fender weighing more kilos, does not provide any improvement to safety. Quote:
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With the Linea, the answer is no. And what about crawling in the city in stop-go traffic ? No again, compared to most of the competition. So, the 1.4 Fire remains the worst engine of the lot in comparison, a detuned and uninpsiring engine mismatched to a much too big car and also would be beat by several B segment hatches. Don't be shocked, check the figures. The list of cars which have faster 0-60kmph times includes Spark, Santro, Getz 1.3, Swift, Zen Estilo, A-star, Ritz. Many of them also beat it in 0-100kmph times. Go figure ... | ||||
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20th September 2009, 23:28 | #160 | |||||||||||
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By that reckoning, the Linea & Verna petrols are even more overpriced. Cos, when you bring in total cost of ownership, they will turn out more expensive to own. Quote:
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Caramelo, as I have repeatedly posted earlier, Honda MUST offer climate control and alloy wheels as standard on all ANHC variants. Quote:
Very subjective comment there. It would be my pick in the C segment, and is the choice of most buyers, thereby proving the best overall choice for the majority of the market. Quote:
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20th September 2009, 23:37 | #161 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: bangalore
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Well said vid. Not to mention the driver ergonomics and slick gearshift will best a Linea anytime. I have 195/60R15 Michelins, and I can confirm the handling is superb on hill roads inspite of soft rear suspension and high GC :-) |
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20th September 2009, 23:56 | #162 | |||
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BRILLIANT. This post pretty much sums up everything that counts in the real world. Think about it. | |||
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21st September 2009, 00:11 | #163 | ||||||
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On the aside, do we have efficiency numbers for OHC Vtech and the new Vtech? Quote:
Being based on the Punto, I would expect Linea to score the same on the safety rating which explains your "unnecessarily higher" theory? Infact how far would you go just to prove your point with abstract comments such as this? Quote:
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21st September 2009, 00:22 | #164 | |
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Quality and workmanship of ANHC interior parts is right up there and cannot be easilly bettered. But yes, the colour looks dull. | |
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21st September 2009, 00:42 | #165 | |||||||||||||
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| For your reference 116/1100 == 105.45 105/995 == 105.55 The newer engine also makes more torque. Quote:
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I can also start a thread and prove that an Accord or a Superb anyday is a better buy than the Mercedes C-Class and they are cheaper as well but then we know thats not the point. Here we are talking about a car which is the costliest in the segment and gives the least standard equipments and we go on and on about the resale value and better engine and say its not overpriced. Quote:
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Rephrasing the old man's sentence, verbatim "Saying that all I want from my car is reliability is like saying all I want from my girl friend is punctuality" Character of a car is something that no amount of numbers can justify, it can only be felt. Last edited by extreme_torque : 21st September 2009 at 00:53. | |||||||||||||
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