21st September 2009, 11:12 | #181 | ||
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Instead of making statements like that have you stopped to think that maybe Fiat designs cars like that? Maybe it's in their DNA to make heavy cars? For example, how many here know that the Punto is the only hatchback, premium or otherwise, (see Jazz and Fabia pictures for proof) to come with a metal seat back in the rear seats. That's a safety feature. Yes, it adds weight and reduces fuel efficiency by maybe 0.05kmpl. Nice to know that there is at least one company in India that thinks it's owner's lives are more valueable then Rs.0.25. Quote:
Sorry for going off topic. This thread is about ANHC. Please continue the entertaining discussion. Last edited by amit : 21st September 2009 at 11:24. | ||
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21st September 2009, 12:03 | #183 | ||||
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But I find the 5k service interval for a petrol sedan absurd. | ||||
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21st September 2009, 12:16 | #184 | |
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Very honest reply, none of them. See i have used sedans for long (10-12 years) and somehow after the 1.6 L iKON nothing ever came near to the "feel good factor" while driving. I like stiff suspension, which can take bad roads at good speed. Stiff chassis and some amount of excitement from handling department. I test drove almost all the cars available at that point of time (2007) before i decided for a hatch, which was closest to my kind of car set up. I know suspension is noisier in Swift, compared to competition but its darn tough and thats what matters for me at the end of the day. In that respect even iKON was rattle free but had higher suspension noise, thanks to the way in which it is set up. Ok you might be wondering, why so much of beating around the bush and ga ga over iKON and all? well reason being, if i was forced to make a choice between the current option, then it would be very close fight between ANHC and SX4! If not for the price (yeah i admit i have that indian mentality which counts feature for the price i paid), Honda might have been my choice! just for its looks (i love it!). I strongly believe in the theory; that Honda like to have a premium image in India and charges it, and takes Indian customers for a ride. No matter how good or bad their car is. Ofcource its inability to take daily abuse would make it lose some points also. Ok here i admit that i dont have much info about A-NHC durability at this point of time, since the one i have access to is hardly 2 months old. But the previous 2 versions aged pretty fast, compared to the 2 SX4 with my colleagues. Let me explain, what i mean is the way in which the car feels; loose feeling, suspension/springs softened, which was very evident in older city's by 40k kms. On the other hand this sort of aging was not very evident in other makes. Hyundai's are set up as a boat and will remain a boat, Fiat is tough and i have never seen them sink. So why SX4? one is close to 2 years and some 18k kms, when i last drove it (last thursday for 20 kms), felt as if its just been delivered from showroom, yup not even rattles, which MUL is know for otherwise? This inspite the fact that the car has done some good amount of highways and bad roads (coorg, kerala etc), not been serviced since 10k kms. Maybe the owner and driver are both careful. Ground clearance is awesome! None of the cars can vroom into our office car park area like this one! I think it really is an underdog which was never marketed well. In short i am slowly getting attracted to the otherwise funny looking sedan these days. Oh also am a sucker for white, and SX4 in white is pardonable, i see one in white often visiting our premises. Handling: well i really havent explored very high speed antiques in SX4, but the car felt ok at 100-120 kph and nothing seriously wrong, maybe better rubber? See i would be confused as ever, so i will stay away from this sedan chase. | |
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21st September 2009, 12:18 | #185 |
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| My pick would be ANHC, especially after additions of ABS/Air Bag/Eye catching design... On service costs front, I have heard horrifying stories from friends who own high mileage Honda's & that is where my only hesitation would be. I always wanted to know how much percentage the external metal parts in a vehicle consists of overall cars weight (approximately). I assume that thick metal transfer to better safety in comparison with flimsy metal part.. not sure whether my assumption is right here. Anyone? |
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21st September 2009, 12:33 | #186 | |
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On the other hand thinner body panels might be useful in pedestrian safety and absorbing the impact (enhance crumble zone) and saving the passenger compartment from the impact in case of frontal collusion. In short its a complex science and fine balance would be required to judge how safe the vehicle is. Thats where all the testing and rating comes into the picture. | |
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21st September 2009, 12:34 | #187 | ||||||
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Interiors room would depend on a lot of factors some which would be the size of the dashboard, the back seat angle, the length of the base of the front and rear seats and the likes. The front and rear legroom number are just numbers. It all depends on what car you find more comfortable. Quote:
There has to be a threshold when the crumple zones should kick in.... not when I hit a bicycle. I remember a thread on the forum which had accident pics of the City and we had the same discussion there as well. Can someone put up the link here. Again please dont assume things. We are having a discussion and lets keep it logic driven and not rhetoric. Quote:
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I am content with the overall car and not just the engine. Got it? Now LOL Quote:
I am not going to argue more on this because you will come up with still more numbers.... any idea of what a torque spread is? Yes 1.4 Petrol in the Linea is an average engine bettered by all of the competition but the overall car isnt and thats is my point. Its also the cheapest by far and gives you maximum number of features inside out. You cant have everything... can you? | ||||||
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21st September 2009, 12:53 | #188 | |||||
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21st September 2009, 13:04 | #189 | |
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What matters in high speed accident is how effectively the crumble zone is designed, how the monocoque structure deflects the collision force and stays intact, presence of cross members on the doors, between the engine and passenger cabin etc etc. | |
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21st September 2009, 13:09 | #190 | |
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Last edited by pmbabu : 21st September 2009 at 13:10. | |
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21st September 2009, 13:14 | #191 | ||
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Its not always the high speed shunts which we are talking of. Small accidents can even occur in the metros where noone would want their crumple zones to work and car be gone as a writeoff. One wants is just a small dent which can be removed by dry denting etc or minimal damages. Am not talking of dents from motorcyclists as they can even occur on a car with thick gauge metals. Eg. Accidents in India pics, i saw a Maruti Esteem hits a still Skoda Octavia. Esteem was blown off till the bonnet and fenders and all that Octavia had was a small dent on the bumper. We cant say here that Esteem's crumple zones worked well or it was designed like that whereas Octavia isnt safe. Its not that those cars with a solid exterior body wont effectively activate crumple zones in an accident. The disadvantages of thick metal sheet is more like slower 0-100 timings and FE which matters most in India whereas only advantage could be more safety which also everyone doesnt accept as its just a passive safety feature and it cant be shown on paper. Quote:
I applaud Honda for making safety as standard on all models but company strategies are different here, theres no base model for the ANHC and even if there is what will they remove from the car now? Regarding E pks moving out less from the showrooms, maybe its case though we dont have concrete info. Last edited by coolboy007 : 21st September 2009 at 13:25. | ||
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21st September 2009, 13:15 | #192 |
BHPian | It all relative After following this thread from the start my views are that any car in todays market will appeal to a certain number of buyers.Now a guy who owns a fiesta/linea/verna and is looking to buy Nano/800 will not compromise and go for the cheapest varient in these cars.He will look at which is the most comfortable car for him and resale maintainence cost will be secondary or not bother him very much.Like wise a person who owns/afford laura/jetta/civic and looking for the second car may go for the ANHC since brand/snob value counts for him.Now this person may even forgo the idea of buying the upper D segment cars for reasons like a)Lack of parking space b)Lower upfront cost etc.Obviously fuel efficiency is not a deal breaker for him. Looking at the new ANHC owner reports one can see that most of them start praising the car starting with engine performance ,handling ,braking,safety. Fuel efficiency is qouted just for the sake of it many not bothered about a kpl here or there. Now look at the ownership threads of Swift/Punto/Ritz all of them give priorty to fuel average.Where as they are willing to live with rattles ,poor braking and bad suspension.Now if you ask this set of people about their views on ANHC, for them it will look overpriced. |
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21st September 2009, 13:19 | #193 |
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| Wasn't there a discussion a while back regarding heavier cars being safer? Correct me if I'm wrong but I was always of the opinion that a heavy car than a light one assuming all other safety features are equal. Obviously a Sumo isn't safe even though it is heavy because it has no real safety features compared to a modern sedan. But if two cars were similarly specced in terms of safety (crumple zones, airbags, etc.), then the heavy one is safer. Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 21st September 2009 at 13:22. |
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21st September 2009, 13:21 | #194 | ||||||||||||
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The discussion was if the Honda City is overpriced and to me it is. Quote:
Even the Indica Quadrajet needs service every 10k kms and its diesel and runs on normal mineral oil. Quote:
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Depreciation yes but the much higher initial outlay and then a service every 5ks would balance that out but that what I think. I know the market thinks otherwise. Quote:
A very average car with good reliability, good engine and fuel efficiency and it clicked with the masses. I dont consider myself to be a part of that group which is why I think City is overpriced. Quote:
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And you never mentioned if it was Verna diesel or the Verna Petrol who's doing the trick?? Quote:
There might not be a need for the justification but its there already, in the form of since SX4 is only sold in petrol forms. | ||||||||||||
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21st September 2009, 13:23 | #195 | |||||
BHPian | This thread is becoming more and more interesting day by day, Why don't you add Fiesta to the comparison. Though you consider the fiesta is from a lower segment, it would give the City a run for it's money. I'm sure there has been enough requests to add fiesta in the equation. It is the same forum where i read about the fiesta and it had helped me a lot in choosing the car. When it comes to a comparison having performance & handling IMO i feel it would take a few good points out of the ANHC and that would benefit many who are looking for a drivers car!! P.S. It's not only because i own one, but the car a really capable C segmenter for the price. IMHO is feel the car is absolute VFM and will give a new perspective on the pricing debate Quote:
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