[Rajain]

Originally Posted by mohan41

Did this happen suddenly? Was there no sign of anything abnormal with the clutch earlier?

Yes that's right - there was no previous sign of anything abnormal with the clutch earlier. Just a simple straight driving and I started to feel the clutch was acting funny - like when I was pressing it was too soft, then when I tried to change gear the gear remained slotted where it was (in this case - it was 5th gear). I pumped the clutch and got a little bit of feeling - enough to re slot the gear. However, this was so temporary that I lost the clutch again within a couple of hundred yards. Slowly I managed to get it into neutral and pull up on the side.

My previous two experiences with clutch were years ago -

a) With Opel Corsa Sail - the clutch play was getting reduced but the feel was there. It was like the first 1" of the clutch pressing was not there and the rest was there. There was enough days like that until I took it to the Opel workshop and they replaced the clutch.

b) The next was Hyundai Santro - the clutch became hard but yes it was always functional. We were driving from Kolkata to Shantiniketan and I felt it was hard. But it was there - never like gone missing totally. The drive was completed with no incident.

So, to me the clutch going missing and the gear remaining slotted where it was - while driving was a spot of bother. Yes, the beauty of it was there was a MASS within a couple of kilometers, then another one in next 45 kms and another one after another 45-50 kms. Its a huge relief that one is able to call Maruti 24/7 helpline and they can send help over.


Cheers
Rajain

[Rajain]

Hello

So, I drove to Pratham motors, Outer Ring Road Bangalore today to check if the vehicle needed anything after the recent time in Gonipoppal.

All minus 2 services of my Ertiga have been done at Pratham over the last 4 years. I know most of the staff and certainly all the senior management people.

I gave them the detail story on Mandya, Mysore and Gonikoppal, they pulled out the record of what was done at these places and concluded that the clutch plate is not required to be touched. The reason they told me was that in case the clutch plate is not doing well then the acceleration will slow down, the power pick up won't be experienced and the vehicle will have very sluggish performance. Per them, if these indicators are not there, then clutch plate does not need to be touched.

I had asked the costing etc but it was the considered opinion of three people there that all work that was needed to be done had been done and the vehicle was all set.

The following had been changed in Mysore - clutch hydraulic assembly cylinder and in Gonikoppal the synchonizer rings had been replaced. So, based off on what had been replaced, based off on the present condition they determined that nothing needs to be done.

So, I came back. While I am happy that nothing is needed to be done, however, I am also confused if there is any nagging issue in the vehicle.

Cheers
Rajain

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by Rajain

concluded that the clutch plate is not required to be touched. The reason they told me was that in case the clutch plate is not doing well then the acceleration will slow down, the power pick up won't be experienced and the vehicle will have very sluggish performance. Per them, if these indicators are not there, then clutch plate does not need to be touched.

This is interesting! The correct way to address the Sync Ring issue is to also replace the entire clutch assembly along with these rings - This is to be done as a preventive and a proactive measure.

If you look at my update, at 97,000 kms my clutch was also healthy with no signs of judder or weakness and if not for the sync ring issue, it would have easily gone past 1.2 Lac kms at least without any sweat. In fact, even when the clutch was removed, the ASC confirmed that it was in good shape.

There have been good cases of the sync rings symptom cropping up again in next 10-15000 kms only because clutch was not replaced earlier.

You can read this entire thread running 6 pages and reviews from owners on Ertiga, Swift and Dzire regarding the synchronizer ring issue. You will notice how most of them who got the Sync rings replaced have also replaced the clutch kit as per recommendation/advise from MSIL.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...r-failure.html

Further to this, I may add that when you are charged labor for dismantling and refitting the Gearbox, replacing the clutch is wise as you save completely on labor here since the Gearbox is anyway down for this job.

[Rajain]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

This is interesting! The correct way to address the Sync Ring issue is to also replace the entire clutch assembly along with these rings - This is to be done as a preventive and a proactive measure.
....Further to this, I may add that when you are charged labor for dismantling and refitting the Gearbox, replacing the clutch is wise as you save completely on labor here since the Gearbox is anyway down for this job.

Thanks Parag.

This is indeed interesting. Or maybe I am missing something. Let me check the paperwork again - maybe the parts are called differently and billed differently.

I mean the car was at Gonikoppal for 2 full days - all parts required were available between there and Mysore. So, whatever was needed to be changed was changed and the vehicle has done more than 750 kms since then with no issues.

Let me check the paperwork again and see what was done and if there is something I am missing.

Will report back.

Cheers
Rajain

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Further to this, I may add that when you are charged labor for dismantling and refitting the Gearbox, replacing the clutch is wise as you save completely on labor here since the Gearbox is anyway down for this job.

+1 to everything and let me also add that, at whatever kilometers your/anyone's car presently is, the clutch must have at least seen half of its life. And when this entire circus is done, why not change it as it would better for both [synchro rings & clutch]

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by Rajain

Let me check the paperwork again and see what was done and if there is something I am missing.

Will report back.

You only need to ask the ASC why they think replacing clutch is not needed for the issue that you are facing and give examples of many who have replaced the clutch along with the Sync rings.

Originally Posted by Sheel

+1 to everything and let me also add that, at whatever kilometers your/anyone's car presently is, the clutch must have at least seen half of its life. And when this entire circus is done, why not change it as it would better for both [synchro rings & clutch]

True. Even with a healthy clutch the "wear" is imminent and its still not really new!

Although it pained to spend on the clutch, eventually I was satisfied more because I would have had to spend on the clutch sooner or later and also pay labor again or I was skeptical that the issue will crop up again.

People asked me, what if the Sync ring issue comes up again with this new clutch and I said to me it surfaced first at 97,000 and I will wait for another 97,000 kms and won't mind spending then. For now, the big spending that waits are the tires and the Timing chain - Easily will make my wallet lighter by at least 35-36K .....But hey, that's what I am spending on usual wear and tear and for me most of these parts have seen super good life - Clutch, Brake Pads, Tires etc.

[Rajain]

Hello

Been a while since the last update.

The vehicle is now 73500 kms or so. Yes the clutch work is still pending. Something that I need to get done.

Recently I had the opportunity to drive an Innova. I had driven it earlier, but not for more than a couple of kms. This time was much longer. The vehicle, it seems is made for the highways - 7-8 people, two large enough suitcases, several small bags - what not. The vehicle was full and it was driving wonderfully well. However, I felt it was a bit sluggish and perhaps on the heavier side. I was also able to feel the ladder frame chassis.

It has a good suspension, wonderful engine - though I can say anything above 100 kmph was too noisy.

So, why am I saying this on my Ertiga thread. Comparisons were natural. Back in the day when I was planning to buy the Ertiga, I had a second hand Innova in mind. However, with the price (primarily) I gave a thums down to the Innova back then. Question (hypothetical) will I buy the Innova today. At around 24L on road for top end Innova - perhaps a no again. I am very happy with the Ertiga and it has served me well over the years and across a variety of terrains.

Ertiga gives me great flexibility, wonderful space utilizations, good engine, nimble handling and above all a good footprint.

The wheels keep rolling, travels continue. Sometimes 300-400 kms every week.

Cheers
Rajain

[Rajain]

So, this weekend required a huge movement.

A few household goods, a couple of furniture items (two single seat sofas), 5-6 suitcases of various things, ladder, gas cylinder, gas stove, mattresses and blankets from one house to another. So this is what I did -

Folded down the rear seat (in our case it is always folded down anyway) also folded down the middle bench. This is a good plus - it makes a good flat bed. That gave a huge cargo room.

I packed up two suitcases in the Thule roof top box, placed a 'chatai' on the flat seats, placed the sofa on top, and then another three suitcases, plus the mattress in a way that it does not block the view. The gas cylinder was placed in one corner. Two smaller bags with clothes went up in the roof top box.

All in all, the vehicle was full to the brim and I the only person seated. The distance to be covered was about 40 kms from HSR Layout to a place between Chikka Tirupati and Whitefield. There is a small broken patch short of Sarjapur. All the driving was, of course, sedate. The weight could have been perhaps an additional 550-600 kilos. The engine pulled through nicely, everything was smooth and when I reached the destination, everything was as it was packed good. Nothing broken or dented.

It has been a long time since I drove like this - fully packed. The last was Dec 2015 when I came driving from Gurgaon to Bangalore. And particularly from Mangalore to Bangalore. While driving past Sakleshpur we had stopped and taken several pieces of driftwood. The vehicle was full till the roof.

Full marks to Ertiga for the space, the engine, the flexibility and the cargo handling space.


Cheers

Rajain

[ankan.m.blr]

Originally Posted by Rajain

Full marks to Ertiga for the space, the engine, the flexibility and the cargo handling space.
Rajain

In all the internet reviews, the reviewers mention a huge turbo lag for the diesel Ertiga. Specially how difficult it is to drive in city stop-&-go conditions. Will full load, assuming AC on, how does the car behave in real world scenario in B2B traffic? And in an hill/incline, since you mentioned Sakleshpur?

[Rajain]

Originally Posted by ankan.m.blr

In all the internet reviews, the reviewers mention a huge turbo lag for the diesel Ertiga. Specially how difficult it is to drive in city stop-&-go conditions. Will full load, assuming AC on, how does the car behave in real world scenario in B2B traffic? And in an hill/incline, since you mentioned Sakleshpur?

Hi

Actually one does not feel the turbo lag. After coming from an Opel Corsa Sail (which was a bit sluggish) I never really felt any turbo lag in the Ertiga (joking). There is a slight lag before the turbo spools up. Takes a going to about 1700-1800 rpm before that comes up.

I also added the Race Dynamics tuning box which allows for 4 settings and I stay in setting P1. This has been good as well since the power delivery is more linear. I am no engineer to prove that but it could well be the case.

The real power delivery, as I said comes when you are above 1700-1800 rpm. Anything less than that is no lag but a bit like ambling along in an AT vehicle without pressing the accelerator.

As far as hill climbs go. No issues at all. As far as one know ones vehicle well enough. I have done Coonoor a couple of times including once from Madumalai to Ooty and then to Coonoor, I have done Kannur more recently, done Mangalore-Sakeshpur, done Mount Abu, done Lonavla, Coorg, Pune, Vadodara and Simla. Besides of course, village roads in Haryana, I have also done some wonderful sands of Rajasthan around Sam Dunes ahead of Jaisalmer. The vehicle is well balanced in terms of power to weight and is able to pull its weight neatly. I have seen enough Ertigas in the mountains. Ladakh/Simla/Manali/Srinagar/Kargil - all including. Power delivery is not a concern and one gets used to just giving that extra pep when taking on an incline and the vehicle responds well.

With full load on, AC on - the vehicle has enough grunt in it to take on traffic or the highways. I have never faced any issues with regard to power or the much talked about turbo lag. IN fact maybe the Race Dynamics box helps a bit. I am informed that it gives 20% extra power. Though it is not an approved device and so it may dishonor the warranty. However, that is not the case. I have used it from the first month onwards and it is pretty good.

SO, go ahead drive your Ertiga without any worries as far as power delivery and any lag is concerned.

Cheers

Rajain

[Rajain]

Hello

finally an update after so many weeks.

Remember the trip to Kannur and the clutch failure?

While they had fixed the clutch back then the synchronizer rings had not been.

Finally got time to get that done. I had driven to Pratham on Outer Ring Road and wanted to give it to them but turned out thanks to the NGT rules/notice they could not operate Pratham workshop at ORR. I gave the vehicle in at Mondovi on Bannerghatta Road. Mondovi had also done the work in Mysore and Gonikuppal a few months ago.

The vehicle was given in the morning and collected back in the evening. The synchonizer ring and the clutch plate were replaced. The slave cylinder had been replaced in Gonikuppal earlier.

It has been a few hundred kms since the change and the vehicle is running fine.

The ODO now reads at 76,000 kms.

Cheers

Rajain

[Rajain]

Hi

Since the synchronizer ring change the gear slotting is pretty good. No issues to report. In fact in the last two weeks there have been two long trips and a number of smaller trips and a quick 1000 kms covered.

My management classmates were getting together in Bangalore and some of them wanted to do an out station trip. Coorg became the destination. A bag each plus camping gear and we were on our way. Happy to report that car remained in top condition. We were 5 adults, 6 bags, two sleeping bags and a tent. We stayed at a coffee estate and camped in their garden.

The drive was smooth. The route taken was Bangalore-Mysore-Madekeri. We also stopped at Bylakuppe. The world is a small place. I came across a colleague from our Delhi office in Bylakuppe! Coorg in this season is amazing green and wonderful shades of sky as well. While camping it was am amazing sky - so full of stars.

The car remained in top shape. Regular 100 kmph or so. One tankful was good enough to take us there and back. We also used Tropicool car cooler. Works very well. The car was driven through some slush and a couple of steep inclines. In the coffee estate some part has no road and the incline required some push of the engine. No issues at all. I continue to remained impressed with its ability, flexibility, overall drive experience and above all the brand support.

The ODO now reads 77000 kms.

Cheers

Rajain

[sam_sant2005]

Hi All,

I have been noticing lately that slotting into 2nd gear esp has become hard (feel of something coming in the way of the gear lever). Is this the start of sync ring issue? Does this issue progress like this and then eventually stop slotting? my ertiga is currently at 54000kms and 4th year warranty is set to expire in Sept 2017. Please advice.

[Rajain]

Originally Posted by sam_sant2005

Hi All,

I have been noticing lately that slotting into 2nd gear esp has become hard (feel of something coming in the way of the gear lever). Is this the start of sync ring issue? Does this issue progress like this and then eventually stop slotting? my ertiga is currently at 54000kms and 4th year warranty is set to expire in Sept 2017. Please advice.

Yes in short go to the workshop and raise the issue. They will try to escape and say it is not within warranty, it is regular wear and tear etc.

Yes the following parts will require replacement -
1. Slave cylinder
2. Sync rings between 1 & 2 and 3 & 2
3. Clutch plate (most likely)

Yes eventually it will stop slotting and you may have to learn to skip gear 2 and drive to 3 which if it happens on a long distance journey maybe quite a pain.

This is a known issue in their engines. Their are dozens of other vehicle owners who have reported this issue. Don't know why Maruti would leave this as an issue in their engines but it is a fact that this happens to 95% DDIS engines.

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers

Rajain

[Rajain]

Been a while since I updated the thread. A pre-worshipped within family owned 3.2 Ford Endeavor has joined the garage. I am yet to have a full blown thread on Ford Endeavor since it is just settling in.

The Ertiga has been driven less than 1000 kms in the last many months. Conversations with someone known who is keen on the vehicle. And it amazes me how much the resale price is being offered.

It continues to shine bright and drives like a charm.

Overall since the last update, the vehicle crossed 1,00,000 and is at around 1,10,000 kms.

Cheers
Rajain