[debuda]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

The new technology - that's exactly what I have been discussing with Anoop. I want to learn what all has changed in last 7 years, so we can use the Yeti and XUV as reference to list all the improvements on the 3 important fronts: power, FE and emissions.

Some basic things I have learnt are:

1. Injectors: Tuc uses mechanical injectors whereas current gen (Santa Fe) uses ultrasonic injectors, which are better in terms of efficiency, NVH, reliability, longavity. I guess Yeti/XUV both use ultrasonic ones?

2. DPF: Does a lot of good to emissions, but not sure any Indian vehicles have this. of course, Tuc does not.

3. VGT: of course, of course:-) Tuc uses FGT/WGT.

4. Timing chain: Tuc uses belts, but it may not be relevant to power/FE/emissions.

5. 6-speed GB: Tuc uses 5 speed and the ratios are not chosen very wisely :-(

6. DMF: Tuc uses single mass flywheel. Again, I don't know if this impacts power/FE. it may just do some good to the clutch and driver's left knee (the sole reason that it may have been worth it, but it's expensive to replace). Interestingly, Terracan had DMF (and also a proper low ratio GB). Tuc was concieved as a cost optimized SUV, I think.

7. Electronics: The current generation surely will have better, faster ECUs, more sensors (e.g. EGTs, etc), and better algorithms.

8. What else?

I think you have all important technical innovations covered. EGR has been standard for many years now. The only additional important area I can think of is that of materials. Maybe the newer engines use more advanced materials but I'm not conversant with developments in this field in the recent past.

As far as I know, most new common rail diesel engines use piezoelectric injector technology. I don't know about ultrasonic injectors. Ultrasonic technology is commonly used for cleaning of precision mechanical components such as fuel injectors.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by debuda

As far as I know, most new common rail diesel engines use piezoelectric injector technology. I don't know about ultrasonic injectors. Ultrasonic technology is commonly used for cleaning of precision mechanical components such as fuel injectors.

You are right - my bad. I meant piezoelectric injectors. After the remap, I keep thinking about injector cleaning quite frequently so ultrasound popped up .

By the way some more points I remember:

8. As you said, materials: I am told the new gen turbos are better at sustaining higher temperatures and RPMs. Not sure which cars have those, etc.

9. Rail pressure: this is going up and up and up...:-)

BTW, I am thinking of doing Leh this year, so need to prep the Tuc. I need to start with suspension...

Cheers!

[debuda]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

BTW, I am thinking of doing Leh this year, so need to prep the Tuc. I need to start with suspension...

I'm planning to do the Ladakh circuit (from Srinagar side towards Manali side) in May this year. It'll be an all male crew -- 2 of my friends are already committed to this trip and I'm on the lookout for a 4th. participant. From my experience of long drives I reckon 4 would be the optimal occupancy for my XUV.

Maybe we could time our respective expeditions such that we could meet up en route.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by debuda

Maybe we could time our respective expeditions such that we could meet up en route.

That will be great.
I will keep you posted on how our plan shapes up.

BTW, the SA informed me that the following things need to be replaced:
- Front and rear shock absorbers (~ 5K each)
- Front and rear insulators (~3K each)
- Front lower arms (~9K each)
- Ball joints (TBD)

I am asking him if the lower arms really need replacement or if changing the bushes will be enough - he says the arm are damaged. I have to go and check myself. BTW, the lower arms are also called lower control arms?

[sudev]

Originally Posted by debuda

I'm planning to do the Ladakh circuit (from Srinagar side towards Manali side) in May this year.

Going off topic here but are all the passes open in May???

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by sudev

Going off topic here but are all the passes open in May???

I have no idea. I am preparing the car right now and scouting for friends to join. Some said July/August will be easier for softroaders like Tuc...

Anyway, while you are reading this thread, can you comment on the part costs (I understood from various sources that these are pretty much inline with other markets and other cars). And what's the way to check the health of the lower arms? Changing only the bushes seems to be a difficult engineering job. Any experience with that? Also, what are the figures for these parts on GV?

Cheers!

[debuda]

Originally Posted by sudev

Going off topic here but are all the passes open in May???

I read in the newspapers that this year (2013) the passes are likely to open end-March, which is one month earlier than usual.

However, as of today, the passes are closed. The easiest way to check this is from http://leh.nic.in/ which is the official website of Ladakh Autonomous Hill Development Council.

[Digital Vampire]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

1. Injectors: Tuc uses mechanical injectors

Electro-mechanical Solenoid-based injectors to be precise. They are still in use on many vehicles.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

2. DPF: Does a lot of good to emissions, but not sure any Indian vehicles have this. of course, Tuc does not.

In India, I guess DPF is probably there only in Mercs and BMWs - That too I'm not too sure.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

3. VGT: of course, of course:-) Tuc uses FGT/WGT.

A VGT would have been a very welcome addition, but retrofitting one is not really easy, but definitely possible. We had thought of doing it on an Elantra, but backed off due to time constraints.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

5. 6-speed GB: Tuc uses 5 speed and the ratios are not chosen very wisely :-(

True...If you dream about true speeds above 185 on the Tuc, 6-Speed GB is probably the only choice, but a transplant is pretty complex to begin with.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

6. DMF: Tuc uses single mass flywheel. Again, I don't know if this impacts power/FE. it may just do some good to the clutch and driver's left knee (the sole reason that it may have been worth it, but it's expensive to replace). Interestingly, Terracan had DMF (and also a proper low ratio GB). Tuc was concieved as a cost optimized SUV, I think.

DMF certainly helps in overall smoothness and delivery, but DMF is one part which has failed the most on Santa Fe and Hyundai keeps blaming the "Indian" style of driving.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

7. Electronics: The current generation surely will have better, faster ECUs, more sensors (e.g. EGTs, etc), and better algorithms.

Definitely better and faster electronics in the new engines. For example, Tucson uses the primitive EDC15 ECU whereas XUV uses more modern EDC17. But whether they are better utilized varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. I find the XUV very conservatively tuned for reasons unknown to me. But if its mechanicals can hold up against higher power, it'd mean lots of remap potential!!!

Since you brought in the XUV again , recently, I was part of a team (you know whom and where to look!) doing VBOX testing of a bunch of cars including XUV and it did a 0-100 kmph in 13.2 seconds (Power Shifting) which is a respectable figure for a Indian vehicle tipping the scale at 1800 Kg.

Corresponding VBOX numbers for Tucson (tests done during 2011).

Stock Tucson (112 ps, TCS-Off, Pedestrian Shifts) - 13.29 Seconds
Tucson (With PSI IM Tuning Box - S2, TCS-Off, Power Shifts) - 10.1 Seconds

Tucson (Remapped) - Untested on VBOX but I expect it to be in the 9.7 to 9.8 second region if error-prone Android Torque-Pro 0-100 figures are anything to go by

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by Digital Vampire

Tucson (Remapped) - Untested on VBOX but I expect it to be in the 9.7 to 9.8 second region if error-prone Android Torque-Pro 0-100 figures are anything to go by

Hmmm...I would really like to test this on Vbox. Hope you arrange to bring one to Goa/Leh. Why is all the action only in Bangalore???

BTW, I think my Tuc will beat yours .


Quick update on the suspension work:
Parts ordered (including the lower arms and the turbo-intercooler pipe).
Expected to arrive on 4'th April.

Regarding the lower arms: I could not find anyone who can do the bush replacements for me. Also, I haven't had a chance to inspect the lower arms. The SA said let's open everything when part come, and he is sure that lower arms are gone. Hope he is right and the money is being spent on the right things...

[Digital Vampire]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

BTW, I think my Tuc will beat yours

I too think that your Tuc will post a slightly better 0-100 timing but top-speed sprints is my territory .
My takeoff is comparatively bogged down by fatter tyres and a partially leaking EGR valve (suspected).

Did you order the sub-frame bushes as well?
That part was supposed to be changed long back under a TSB.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

bring one to Goa/Leh.

0-100 testing in Leh?
Though unrealistic, I guess that would be a first in stratified atmospheres!!

Jokes apart, we will talk about Goa soon.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Why is all the action only in Bangalore???

Yet another reason for you to shift base to BLR!!!

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by Digital Vampire

0-100 testing in Leh?
Though unrealistic, I guess that would be a first in stratified atmospheres!!

Ha.
0-100 testing on the way to Leh - anywhere in GJ/RJ as per your choice .

Originally Posted by Digital Vampire

Yet another reason for you to shift base to BLR!!!

Once I settle my life (unless you are willing to help me with that too).

[anandpadhye]

Crossed 1,19,000 km - ~4000 km since remap and turbo rebuild.
Oil level reached mid-way beteen max and min. From my experience, this means it consumed ~700ml of oil over 4000 km. Discussed with SA if the turbo work was not a 100% success, he said let's watch for another 5000 km, for now topped up till MAX. Other than that remap is behaving well. Did a Goa trip in April to meet Anoop. He installed the same map as mine and we drove each other's cars back to back.As I was suspecting, mine gives out slightly more puff of black smoke (for a second or 2) if accelerator is dumped. It's more pronounced with AC on. His car also puffs but to a lesser extent. Again, fingers pointing to the rebuilt turbo? But good news is that under normal acceleration and and at steady speeds (even very high ones), there is no smoke.

BTW, His Tuc felt much more willing than mine, his oil level is right at MAX (~3000 km since oil change), a sign that his engine and turbo are in good health (he has done ~1,28,000 km). Also, he has got the sub-frame bushes changed and is running brand new highway tires. My ride quality (even after replacing the front 2 shock absorbers and lower arms) is harsh on potholed roads. So I will pursue with my SA to get the front insulators as well as the sub-frame bushes changed. But he is reluctant - he says they are fine and the ride is harsh because of the AT tires (I am running Yokohama Geolandar G011 A/T, done ~20000 km).


BTW, here is the bill for the turbo work:


And here is the bill for the front suspension work:


Cheers!

[Digital Vampire]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

is running brand new highway tires.

I'm not sure whether you noticed, but my driving behavior has completely changed after installing these MRF Wanderers (215/65 R16 Stock Size- Same as in Duster) - The worst tires I've ever purchased in my life! It just don't like to hold traction when powering during corners - and when Traction Control has to work overtime to maintain sanity, it says a lot about these tires . Never happened with Kumho, Michelin, Bridgestone and Cooper tyres which this vehicle has cycled through in its life. Damn...I miss my Cooper Discovery Sport HP (235/60/R16) tires - Even with less than 5mm tread depth remaining, it was a lot better than these crappy MRF Wanderers.

I'd rate MRF Wanderers (215/65 R16) 2 out of 5 stars. One star for being reasonably priced and the second one for being not so noisy (at least for now!!!).

Lesson (Re)Learned: Take online reviews with a BUNCH of salt!!!

Note to Tucson Owners: When you change tyres, do yourself and the Tucson a big favor by upgrading to 235/60/R16.

[K a s h]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

As I was suspecting, mine gives out slightly more puff of black smoke (for a second or 2) if accelerator is dumped. It's more pronounced with AC on. His car also puffs but to a lesser extent. Again, fingers pointing to the rebuilt turbo?

One more point to consider is the Air filter. He runs a Green cotton which is far less restrictive than your Stock Filter.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

My ride quality (even after replacing the front 2 shock absorbers and lower arms) is harsh on potholed roads. So I will pursue with my SA to get the front insulators as well as the sub-frame bushes changed. But he is reluctant - he says they are fine and the ride is harsh because of the AT tires (I am running Yokohama Geolandar G011 A/T, done ~20000 km).

Come on!, Yokohama tyres have soft side walls even when compared to Michelin. I was once shown the side wall stiffness comparison between Yoko & Michelin by Madhus Tyres. No way Yoko will made the ride quality harsh with regular air pressure (30 - 34 psi).

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by Digital Vampire

I'd rate MRF Wanderers (215/65 R16) 2 out of 5 stars. One star for being reasonably priced and the second one for being not so noisy (at least for now!!!).

Lesson (Re)Learned: Take online reviews with a BUNCH of salt!!!

Note to Tucson Owners: When you change tyres, do yourself and the Tucson a big favor by upgrading to 235/60/R16.

OK, will try 235/60/R16 next time, but they are not available for now. In any case, my Yoko's have done around 22K right now so they have another 20K or so left. (Note: the horiontal band I showed you in Goa is actually as per design - something to do with offroad pattern. The tyre wear indicators are well below threshold. My SA pointed this out. So basically Yokos have 2 types of horizontal bands - 1. part of the tread, 2. tread wear indicators, which marked by the triangular "tread wear marker" symbol. So it was a false alarm). Pulling left on hard braking was due to low pressure in front left (19 psi) while the front right was at 29 psi. However, skidding on hard braking is something I can't figure out...

Originally Posted by K a s h

One more point to consider is the Air filter. He runs a Green cotton which is far less restrictive than your Stock Filter.



Come on!, Yokohama tyres have soft side walls even when compared to Michelin. I was once shown the side wall stiffness comparison between Yoko & Michelin by Madhus Tyres. No way Yoko will made the ride quality harsh with regular air pressure (30 - 34 psi).

I used green cotton for around 3000 km after remap. I did not notice any difference actually. I am out of the cleaning liquid so switched back to paper filter. Any idea how I can clean green cotton without the special cleaning liquid?

Yes, I also think Yoko's are not the root cause of harsh ride on potholes. After all, they are offroad tyres and should provide some comfort on bad roads.

BTW, Leh plan is in place. We are starting from Pune on evening of 14'th June, returning by evening of 30'th June. It will be great if any of you can make it. I am preparing a list of things to check and will post tomorrow. Please review and advise.

Cheers!