[abhinav.s]

Wow! That's amazing FE and since you mentioned Winters I think this is without AC. Congrats on owning the beauty and munching miles on it. You are doing justice in buying a diesel by running close to 20k every year.

This was one of my most desired cars but missed it by a whisker when the production was stopped in 2010.

Originally Posted by architect

Sorry to go off-topic but today, after 55,000 km, I got the best urban FE ever: 21.06 kpl. I love winters. In summers, the FE never goes beyond 18 kpl in any cycle (my typical cycle for a week is 250-400 km), but in winters it hovers between 19 and 20. 21 kpl is good, just below its best ever FE of 23 kpl.

[nandalalv]

Originally Posted by architect

Without hearing the sound, I can't really say anything about it. I doubt if any A.S.S. will comment either. Why don't you take it to another A.S.S. (Concorde?) or a good independent garage in your city for a second opinion?

Thanks architect!!The sound is more like the aircon fan(amplified)..especially heard in the 1st gear!!any idea about the prices for the parts I have mentioned?

[architect]

Originally Posted by abhinav.s

Wow! That's amazing FE and since you mentioned Winters I think this is without AC.

Yes, this is winter FE without AC, with a light foot and reasonable traffic. Summer FE hovers between 15 and 18 kpl.

Originally Posted by abhinav.s

Congrats on owning the beauty and munching miles on it. You are doing justice in buying a diesel by running close to 20k every year.

The three years is still 45 days away, and I am at 61,000 km already. So actually I have driven more than 20,000 km every year.

Originally Posted by abhinav.s

This was one of my most desired cars but missed it by a whisker when the production was stopped in 2010.

It does have its own set of issues, especially some niggling quality issues of components and poor Tata-Fiat service and spares. More on that later in the three year review.

[tortoiseNhare]

@ architect

Do you plan to continue with Tata-Fiat once the 3 years and hence the extended warranty are past? Is there any independent garage known to you who can serve the Palio MJD better than the TASS?

[architect]

Originally Posted by tortoiseNhare

@ architect
Do you plan to continue with Tata-Fiat once the 3 years and hence the extended warranty are past? Is there any independent garage known to you who can serve the Palio MJD better than the TASS?

Firstly there aren't too many independent garages, at least in Delhi, who have thorough knowledge of Fiat cars. They may be making brilliant diagnosis occasionally, but they don't have thorough know-how.

That said, very few A.S.C. in Delhi have good working knowledge of Fiats (especially the 178 platform) except Elegant Cars, Vivek Auto and Dynamic. The situation is better with Puntos and Lineas because the Tata-Fiat A.S.C. have received training on them recently.

In such a situation, I have only two prayers: (a) that Elegant and Dynamic continue to serve their customers like they do and (b) that the parts are still available.

It is a sad truth for us owners but there's no denying that Fiat after sales support has not registered much improvement. Let's hope the Linea and Punto owners are happier than us.

[visweshkalambur]

Architect, i quite agree with your statement. After multiple attempts to work with the *** guys everytime for my Palio MJD, i finally gave up and sold the car. Yes, it was close to my heart, but, had to let go due to practicality. (Waiting for my Optra Magnum diesel)

[architect]

Three years since I took delivery, almost to the precise hour, the odometer stood at 63,000 km. That was last Wednesday. I have added 1,500 km over the last week making it 64,500 km.

I am now having mixed feelings about the kind of distances I am piling up. With a shift to the farthest suburbs imminent, I shall be breaching the one-lakh-kilometre-mark sooner than I thought. The idea of reducing this by splitting the driving between this car and the bike has been discussed here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...-bullet-5.html.

This started as a review of the car, so let’s get back to the topic:

I have always maintained that the Palio to have was the 2002 Palio 1.6 GTX. I even contemplated the Palio Stile 1.6 Sport at a mouth-watering price of 4.75 lakhs on-road in March 2008. Looking at the odometer I realise I would have been bankrupt by now, had I gone ahead with that decision.

The ownership experience so far is well-documented in this thread. While buying this car, I was given a lot of sales talk about how the Tata-Fiat JV had improved things. I had bought the car when the company had just started its new phase; I have been a keen observer of its progress in terms of After Sales Support. There has been an improvement, but it is so small that neither is it satisfactory nor does it justify the hike in costs of spares in any way. They do call you and bother you to the point of irritation if you rate them less than 10 out of 10 on any feedback form. If only Tata-Fiat spent less time on feedback forms and follow-up calls and used the same manpower in the technical and quality departments.

It is interesting how a well-engineered product suffers due to poor quality of components. Is it that 50% Tata in the JV? In 64,500 km and three years, the list of parts failures and replacements are as follows, with the extended warranty replacements marked as EW.
1. Combination Switch (EW) replaced for no apparent reason, was working fine.
2. Boot lock clamp (EW), for an irritating rattle due to a bad spot weld.
3. Wiper motor due to timer malfunction (EW). Timer malfunctioned again recently.
4. Radiator water pump due to bearing noise (EW).
5. Clutch kit consisting of pressure plate, clutch plate and clutch release bearings (EW for manufacturing defect, not wear and tear).
6. Alternator Tensioner Adjuster due to bearing noise. This was valid for EW but paid due to urgency on a crazy Christmas day of 2010 when three A.S.C.s and an independent mechanic located the part which was wrongly labelled as a 1.6 engine part and finally fixed to make my Lucknow trip next morning possible. All this thanks to a Tata CRM server that is often down in some A.S.S. or the other.
7. Clutch Release Bearings due to bearing noise.
8. Left Front Shocker mounting.
9. Battery holder-clamp (a plastic part fixed to stop the battery from moving on its tray).
10. Two headlamp low beam bulbs, three fog lamp bulbs, one rear stop lamp bulb and one number-plate illuminator. My car does 50%+ of its mileage at night / evening, so a higher rate of usage of lamps.

While it is not a compensation for the failure, let me add that each part has been changed in advance of failure and upon detection of any abnormality. The boot lock clamp and wiper motor were purely preventive replacements.

Service, by and large, is not particularly expensive (except for a now crazily priced diesel filter at Rs 1,700/- from Rs 1,000/-). I have stuck to the recommended 7,500 km service schedule so far but intend to move to a 5,000 km service schedule with Mobil 1 / Selenia changed at every alternate service. Routine maintenance costs have been around 70 paise per kilometre. Additional services, accident repairs and parts failures have pushed up the costs to Rs 1.10 per kilometre. Two sets of tyres have cost me Rs 26,000 so far, but the current set should last for another 35,000 kilometres, so I am not complaining.

Even after so many replacements, I am reasonably happy with the car (the car, not the support it enjoys from Tata-Fiat. Only the car, mind you. ).
Out of 64,500 km, nearly 17,000 km has been on the highway, with me travelling solo most of the time. This car has been to Bir/Billing, Palanpur, Hrishikesh, Dehra Dun, Bikaner (twice), Sattal, Kanpur (twice), Lucknow, Khajuraho, Jaipur, and quite a few other places within 200 km of Delhi. It has done a 1200-km Delhi-Lucknow-Delhi and an 1100-km Delhi-Kanpur-Delhi within 30 hours each time with me travelling solo and under fairly stressed conditions. On all these trips, this car has not provided any anxious moments. I have picked up the vehicle on an impulse after dinner and driven from Bikaner to Kishangarh through unfamiliar state roads of Rajasthan without a second thought.

While it is not a tall order and obviously expected of modern cars to behave reliably, my point is to illustrate that a Fiat need not be a second car as I have read some people claim. It is the one and only mode of transport I use. Even though I have a bike in perfect running condition, it is not always possible or comfortable to use it because of the stuff I carry with me.
Within the city, it can be driven both sedately or “on-the-boil” depending on your mood and traffic conditions. The superb, well-weighted steering with brilliant feedback, the composed medium and high speed ride quality, the comfortable driving position and ergonomics (except a minor lack of space for left foot while placing it on the dead pedal), the acceptable handling (despite the increased body-roll in the Stile variant), the general spaciousness (both actual physical space and that implied by a large greenhouse and beige interiors) and general indestructible feeling of this vehicle stays with you throughout.

The only criticism here is the poor manner in which the multijet engine has been shoe-horned into this car. While the cabin is surprisingly well-insulated from outside noise, the drone of the engine above 2,000 RPM intrudes into the cabin so loudly that it tends to spoil an otherwise commendable highway experience for a 5-lakh-rupee hatchback. The other problem that manifests itself on the highway is the narrow power-band of the engine. It makes one plan one’s overtaking and braking moves. The lack of ABS and Airbags is another downside. Besides these, there is not much to criticise.

Writing a review of a discontinued model can leave you thinking about what use people will make of it. Perhaps only while picking up a used vehicle on what sounds like a good deal. I can say that this car is at par and, arguably, better in quality and reliability as compared to similar-priced cars from the Tata stable. I know that’s not a great ideal to compare with, but I would trust an older Palio to be in better shape than, say, an older Indica, all other factors being equal.

It may not be exactly a fun-to-drive car. I don’t see how it can be unless, of course, you Pete it (ask Bubby for the details on that one). However, if you get used to tackling that turbo right, it is a fantastic mile-muncher except for the drone above 110 kph or so. Even my daily run of 40 km or so is something I look forward to.

That’s all for now. I am closing this three-year review with a photograph of the car. I hope the next year’s review is equally happy and positive, preferably even more so.

[.anshuman]

One of the nicest and most detailed ownership threads i have come across. Thanks for keeping us updated on the ownership.

Being a fellow Fiat owner i agree Fiat India could have done a lot better if they concentrated on something else than irritating owners with those useless feedback calls which they never act upon, in the end the owner ends up irritated and short-changed. i find these telecallers even dumber than IVR systems.

02' Palio GTX, especially the S Edition has always been my favorite. Even i somehow ended up buying a Diesel Indica in 2002.

Keep updating.

[lloydofcochin]

architect,

I have been a silent reader of your thread

Congrats on completing 3yrs with the Palio, It is indeed a fantastic Car

65000 Kms in 3yrs is some running. Glad to hear that apart from some A.S.S issues the Car has served you well so far.

Your thread is an information trove for other Palio owners and wannabe owners, it is very well documented and have balanced periodical reviews which will be very handy for the readers.

I too got a Palio under the Dhamaka scheme and in the last 5 months it has served me well clocking 19250 Kms in the process. Touchwood the A.S.S has been excellent so far except some nonsensical pricing for some spares like the Fuel filter, ORVM etc.

It was a super deal that I got for a fantastic Car and I've enjoyed every minute of driving it. I too want to write a review but have been pretty lazy so far in putting down my thoughts maybe a couple of weeks later once it crosses 20k Kms I will start one.

Keep driving and keep updating!

Wish you many more happy miles with your Palio

[architect]

Oh Yes, I forgot to add that I have by now lost five RHS ORVM mirrors (and zero LHS ones, despite being advised by many to keep the LHS one shut). Thank God for this:

Originally Posted by architect

Price of Mirror @ASC: Rs 600-odd plus labour + Tax (Total: Rs 800-900)
Waiting Period: 1 week

Price of Mirror @Noida Sec16: Rs 90 + Rs 30(fixing)
Waiting Period: 5 minutes.

So where's the catch? The mirror is from the retro Palio, which means it fits and works in the new assembly, but the shape does not match the assembly cover. With a saving of Rs 800 and a long waiting period, not to mention inconvenience in driving, I am not complaining and willing to overlook the shape mismatch.

[tortoiseNhare]

I was waiting for the latest update about your car. As always it is an excellent summary of the ownership experience.

Mobil/Selenia that you intend to use henceforth is synthetic, is it not? Is that very expensive? When did you change the PS fluid, gear oil etc? As per service manual it is recommended at 60K kms iirc.

I am at 41000 kms now and the stock Goodyears don't have much tread left. I am in two minds about the next set of tyres. I think I shouldn't go for Michelins because my car is on rough roads often. The GY's have given me zero puncture till date but a rather noisy and rough ride too. What about Bridgestones next? Is there a 175x75 size option in 13"? I think 185s will be an overkill for my kind of sedate driving.

[Ravi Yadav]

Very well summed up Architect. I totally agree to you ,its not a fun to drive car but if kept with the power band its a great car to drive. I have not been driving her too much these days but just completed 5k mark.
Yesterday had the first problem with her. She can't be locked from the driver side. The key just turns freely. Is this something that is covered under warranty. Hope its time to visit the workshop again.

[gemithomas]

Excellent Long Term Review. What about the aam aadmi question? Kitna...?

Its good to see that you are able to mange the A.S.S. Its kind of funny. Isnt it supposed to be the other way round!!

[architect]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

One of the nicest and most detailed ownership threads i have come across. Thanks for keeping us updated on the ownership.
.

Originally Posted by lloydofcochin

Your thread is an information trove for other Palio owners and wannabe owners, it is very well documented and have balanced periodical reviews which will be very handy for the readers

Originally Posted by Ravi Yadav

Very well summed up Architect. I totally agree to you ,its not a fun to drive car but if kept with the power band its a great car to drive.

Thanks. One of the first Palio Multijets on the forum, so people watch this thread a little more closely, encouraging me to document things well.

Originally Posted by lloydofcochin

65000 Kms in 3yrs is some running. Glad to hear that apart from some A.S.S issues the Car has served you well so far.

Originally Posted by tortoiseNhare

Mobil/Selenia that you intend to use henceforth is synthetic, is it not? Is that very expensive? When did you change the PS fluid, gear oil etc? As per service manual it is recommended at 60K kms iirc.

Come to think of it, besides the fact that some parts have waiting periods, I am actually quite happy with Elegant Cars, which is the ASC I go to. The workshop manager O P Sharma has been with Fiat since the PAL days (Prem Nath Motors) and the people out there know what they are doing.

Selenia is semi-synthetic, I think. It is also cheaper than Mobil 1 (at the service centre. If I buy from the market, Mobil 1 might be at par, but I am not sure). Selenia sells at Rs 900/- per litre or so. My only purpose of moving to synthetic is that I can change oil at 10,000 km and do a general service at 5,000 km from now on. In any case, 7,500 km is too long an interval for mineral oil.

Gear box oil was changed at 60,000. Power Steering fluid has not been changed as it seems fine. It has been topped up once. Clutch / brake fluid have been changed at 32,000 km. Coolant has been changed every year and during the change of radiator water pump.

Originally Posted by tortoiseNhare

What about Bridgestones next? Is there a 175x75 size option in 13"? I think 185s will be an overkill for my kind of sedate driving.

Bridgestone Turanza are supposed to be great tyres and harder than Michelin XM1+. Don't worry about overkill, just go for 185/70/R13. You will be surprised by the difference.

Originally Posted by gemithomas

Excellent Long Term Review. What about the aam aadmi question? Kitna...?

FE (sorry to sound repititive) is something like this:

Urban
with AC: 14.5-17.0 kpl (worst ever is 11.xx but that was a one-off)
without AC: 18.0-20.5 kpl (best ever is 21.06 kpl, again a rare case)

Highway
worst: 13.xx kpl (horrible western UP traffic, redline every gear except 5th)
best: 23 kpl (light traffic and only double digit speeds despite 500 km of hills and climbing to 2200 m above sea level)

On the highway, the traffic makes a lot of difference, since overtaking needs lot of high revs. If you decide to remain below 90 kph, you will be rewarded with great FE.

Originally Posted by gemithomas

Its good to see that you are able to mange the A.S.S. Its kind of funny. Isnt it supposed to be the other way round!!

Let's put it this way, Elegant Cars and me are managing with each other. Good Service backup is a lot of relationship building, from both sides. On more than one occasion, I have driven away from Elegant without paying my bill and have settled it later because they weren't clear about the bill. Any other ASC would have asked me to wait till the bill was cleared.

It's not that I get preferential treatment there. Bubby, ByDesign, VikasB, Bruiser and quite a few other TBHP-ians and FIAT owners are happy with the place. Of course, it is still plagued by poor support from FIAT itself.

[jagan0677]

Excellent Review, Architect! Wishing you many more 1000's of kilometres of safe and fun-filled motoring!

Originally Posted by tortoiseNhare

I was waiting for the latest update about your car. As always it is an excellent summary of the ownership experience.

Mobil/Selenia that you intend to use henceforth is synthetic, is it not? Is that very expensive? When did you change the PS fluid, gear oil etc? As per service manual it is recommended at 60K kms iirc.

I am at 41000 kms now and the stock Goodyears don't have much tread left. I am in two minds about the next set of tyres. I think I shouldn't go for Michelins because my car is on rough roads often. The GY's have given me zero puncture till date but a rather noisy and rough ride too. What about Bridgestones next? Is there a 175x75 size option in 13"? I think 185s will be an overkill for my kind of sedate driving.

Hi,

My SDX is at 69000kms currently. I was not very happy with the stock Goodyears. However, i had made the mistake of not changing tyres immediately at delivery. Considering the loss on the tyres, I decided to stick on to the Goodyears for some time. I ran them till 42000 Kms. In that period i had 2 punctures on 2 different tyres, which forced me to convert them from tubeless to tubed tyres.. Even at 42000 kms, i had good amount of tread left. I should say about 20000kms worth.

At 42000 kms, I switched my steel wheels to the OEM alloys. I got a decent deal of 4 alloys for 15000 Rs. Tyres - i chose 185/65/R14 Michelin's Xm1+ at about 3500 per tyre. So far the Michelin's in about 27000 kms, have run flawlessly. Good grip on dry, Decent grip on wet, Less noise. 0 punctures( touch-wood!). And ya, right from day one I have been running on nitrogen.

I am hoping against hope this set of XM1+ will run till abt 100,000 kms( that's a tyre life of about 58000kms) and some more. Fingers crossed. My usage is about 50% smooth roads and 50% rough roads. Some of them really rough. I have not felt any impact of the rough road on the Michelin's.

After switching to the R14 OEM alloy and XM1+s, there was a huge jump in confidence in running the car in the 110-145 kph range on our highways down south. Some real crazy situations that are thrown at us at these speeds , I should say!

OT, After reduction in the tyre noise, the biggest irritant is the engine drone. I am planning some noise shield like dynamat in the next 3-4 months. Hopefully, that will be make it an improved highway cruiser.

I get alignment, balancing and 4-wheel rotation done every 10000kms. I try to get it done at 5000 kms, however, practically i miss every alternative 5000 km interval.

Cheers,
Jagan.