Advice on CNG Conversion

panky12345 · 9th April 2006, 23:17

LPG (legal or illegal) is bit risky if u smoke....am also planning to convert my Indica from deisel to CNG....trying to figure out how can I as I have a ICE setup in the trunk.

gr8guzzler · 10th April 2006, 01:33

Guys,

I am right now going in for a LPG kit and the same question was haunting me too, which is better CNG or LPG.

CNG Pros
- Cheaper than LPG, right now the cost of CNG in Mumbai is 20.31 per Lt
- FE will increase by around 30%, so if your vehicle is giving you an avg of 10, then you should be able to get around 13.
- Very low emissions

CNG Cons
- Kit is expensive, at around 35-37K for MPFI vehicles
- Empty tank weight is around 68Kgs, since CNG is stored at higher pressure, more metal is used hence the weight
- Takes more time to fill compared to LPG
- 30% drop in power
- Needs more maintenance than usual
- In my case availability was an issue since I stay in Navi Mumbai which does not have a CNG filling station

LPG Pros
- Cost, Good imported MPFI kits at 22-25K. Indian Kits available are more cheaper
- Empty tank weight is just around 22 Kgs
- You get cylindrical tanks which fit into your spare tyre space, good for hatchbacks where space is at premium.
- Drop in power is around 5%
- Maintenance is usual as compared to petrol.

LPG Cons
- Cost of LPG 26.20 per lt higher as compared to CNG
- FE drop by 20%
- Higher emissions compared to CNG

As mentioned earlier, I decided to go for a LPG kit due to non availability of CNG near my place. But irrespective of whatever kit you go for, it's always good for the engine to drive atleast 25Kms on petrol after a tankful of CNG/LPG drive. Also most kit suppliers will get you the RTO registration done at the same cost. But the most important part is to get the kit retro fitted by an authorised service station who has past experience installing the kit in a similar vehicle and see to it that the kit has been tested and certified by govt agencies.

Hope this info is helpful.

Cheers!!!

manver786 · 10th April 2006, 09:35

Hi folks,
I have been using CNG in my Zen (Carb) since 1998 or 1999 (RTO approved) and has covered more than 150k on CNG. There is no harm to the engine. If the vehicle is MPFI there is no drop in power but in Carb models there is a considerable drop in power. Apart from routine maintenance or my negligence I have spent nothing. I would recommend CNG to any one without any doubts. Initially when it was installed in my car I had sleepless nights as there was considerable drop in power when the AC is switched on as compared to Petrol. Now I am used to it and enjoy the savings. A friend of mine got the CNG kit installed in his MPFI zen and I find no drop in power whether on AC or non-AC.

Thanks,
manu

somebodystopme · 10th April 2006, 13:20

Hi i am a bit confused what do u mean by drop in power?? Is it drop in like pickup, acceleration thingy?? Or likr something to do with Electricity or altenator in car???

2fast4u · 10th April 2006, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebodystopme

Hi i am a bit confused what do u mean by drop in power?? Is it drop in like pickup, acceleration thingy?? Or likr something to do with Electricity or altenator in car???

buddy this drop in power is in pickup, acceleration.........................

well i had this ride from Sahar Airport to Pune in a Maruti Versa. I dont know whether it was LPG or CNG but the guy filled it at a pump 5 mins from the Sahar airport. It had an LPG odor. The Versa sells as the "Carry" (goods carrier) in the Gulf and has a good peppy engine. So I wanted to have a ride on this Passenger creation.

Gosh!!!!!!!!! It was a really bad experience. The engine made some erratic noise in any gear, mind you the vehicle was new maybe under 6 months. when on the Expressway it was absolutely humiliating to see our ST Buses Asiads overtaking. The Max Speed it was doing was a pathetic 88kmph SPEEDO read. real terms on expressway it was feeling like 30kmph. Not to mention the seating is also very bad - i mean the cushioning.

i feel the cng / lpg is best if u r into use within city but on the highways be prepared for the slow lane and also to get off the shoulder.

manver786 · 10th April 2006, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebodystopme

Hi i am a bit confused what do u mean by drop in power?? Is it drop in like pickup, acceleration thingy?? Or likr something to do with Electricity or altenator in car???

It is drop in pickup, acceleration especially on a gradient when AC is on. Please note that it is only in carb. models MPFI vehicles have no such problems. Please go ahead and instal you will have no regrets.

wannaplay · 21st May 2006, 15:02

hi guys

I have been reading all the posts But I dont see any converts for a Ford Ikon 1.6 , Any one have any idea if the converstion is suscess full on a Ford ikon now i am thinking of converting my Ikon into GAS ,But a Does any one know any good mechanics in Hyderabad

wolfinstein · 21st May 2006, 21:04

@ Direct Injection

" From what I understand, there is a shortage of natural gas all over the country. (Remember, banks have stopped financing gas based power projects because of this and are only giving loans to coal based thermal power projects). Hence, all this talk of Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline. There appears to be tacit understanding between the govt. and vehicle manufacturers not to manufacture and sell gas-based vehicles in large numbers.[/quote]"

Mistaken My friend, The country is short on LPG not CNG...! CNG is available in abundant source almost everywhere in the world..Since LPG is not a natural form of GAS...It has to be made in refinery plants..Hence Added cost + The entire country's cooking needs is fuelled by LPG Gas in Piped or Cylinder form's..! The Pipe-line will carry CNG..! The worlds largest Gas basin has been found in Krishna-Godavri Basin ( Which ofcourse is back home in India)..! All Oil Well's have CNG Gas in them as residue or Air-pockets...!

mithun · 23rd May 2006, 10:48

Why CNG filling stations are a rarety in our country (except delhi) ?

Is it bcoz of the availability of crude CNG less when compared to LPG ?

Zappo · 23rd May 2006, 12:00

Without jumping on the whys and hows of CNG versus LPG availability let me draw out a few points. First of all, my vote goes for LPG. Here's why,
* LPG won't cause a noticeable drop in power. This is very important if you are habituated to your peppy petrol engine. I have driven a M800 on LPG. With 3 fully grown-up adults it could do wheelspins!
* LPG does not cause as big a drop in FE as some people seem to suggest it does (20%?!!!). In fact more often than not for 1 litre of of both fuels you may find that while with petrol your car giveskmpl 13 with LPG it is somewhere around 12-12.5 kms.
* AutoLPG in hyderabad costs Rs.30 a liter compared to the Rs.50 for petrol. That is still a massive saving.
* LPG is one of the most natural replacement for petrol and does not need any modifications as such for the engine. Not so with CNG, one of the main reasons why CNG conversion is more time consuming, difficult and costly.
* LPG (AutoLPG) is nowadays available in almost all the big (and even not so big) cities. Even Reliance has the facility in many of its pumps. CNG is something you will be hard-pressed to find once you are out of Delhi. Even a city like Hyderabad has no CNG pumps. So a CNG vehicle means forget those intra-city runs... your car is meant only for Delhi. Important for people who may take a job in a different city tomorrow and move out.
* Finally, outside delhi almost all taxis and ricks are getting converted to LPG. They have clocked miles and they will vouch for what is a common knowledge. That a kit installation done at RTO approved places with proper certifications DOES NOT cause any damage to the engine.

Think about all these before you decide on CNG versus LPG thing. To me LPG is a more natural replacement for petrol than CNG.

lodhra · 23rd May 2006, 16:17

Hi

Let me join in the debate. I have Lpg fitted on my Gypsy. Everyone knows about the neve ending thirst of Gypsy. To add to it I have A/c on it. Now when i intially started, A/c did not have a FICD unit that increased the rpm. Also tyres were bald (Nylon). Lpg gave an FE of 6/kg with A/c on in the city.
I installed the FICD, changed t radials . (REcommended size 205/70) mine (195/65) aand the fue economy improved to 8/kg. Now i consulted a renowned LPG fitment centre and did some fine tuning. The gas flow should be kept at 14 on the metere not less not more with and without A/c for that they do some fine tuning. My Fe improved to 12/kg with A/c anf fully loaded car. There is marginal drop in pickup. This will only be known when u have to move from 3rd to 4th gear ( in my case). One advantage LPG has that it can used till the last drop unlike cng.

Tips

Get the best kit. If u dont wanna go for auto transfer get installed imported BRC italian switch so that u car wont stop when switching to neutral from LPG mode to Petrol a case seen with Indian switches.

I have done almost 5k now on my gypsy and lpg is cool. When i started it was 26rs per kg and it is infact now dropped to 23rs per kg as on may 19 2006

Decide for urself
To add one more point. LPG has a strong data where in italy 80%, UK and USA 40% use LPG on their cars. A thing that has so great folloing is bound to be hassle free

One caution is that if u have not drilled a hole to filt Lpg inlet then leave your trunk door open for a few secs after the gas is filled and do not smoke in the car for atleast 20 mins. If the inlet is out no probs.

Also a chemical is added to the LPG kit to detect leaks. A leak immediately stops gas transfer.

Get propere xonsultation. Research on the net and chose the right option

For me LPG all the way

Zappo · 23rd May 2006, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lodhra

Lpg gave an FE of 6/kg with A/c on in the city.
I installed the FICD, changed t radials . (REcommended size 205/70) mine (195/65) aand the fue economy improved to 8/kg. Now i consulted a renowned LPG fitment centre and did some fine tuning. The gas flow should be kept at 14 on the metere not less not more with and without A/c for that they do some fine tuning. My Fe improved to 12/kg with A/c anf fully loaded car.

Whoa! thats a massive improvement! Proves what a knowledgeable garage/installer can do. Of course, it also takes some time to stabilize the installation. You may need to make a few trips to the installer with your feedback, based on which he will retune the kit.

By the way 12km per kg of LPG, eh! By god! That ever-thirsty Gypsy is actually giving you a Rs.2 per km running cost... boy! That's almost unbelievable. With petrol how much does the Gypsy give? 9-10kmpl, right?

gr8guzzler · 24th May 2006, 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannaplay

hi guys

I have been reading all the posts But I dont see any converts for a Ford Ikon 1.6 , Any one have any idea if the converstion is suscess full on a Ford ikon now i am thinking of converting my Ikon into GAS ,But a Does any one know any good mechanics in Hyderabad

I have recently converted my Ikon 1.6 ZXI, as of now have no problems with it. There is also a old thread which has pics of a Ford Ikon LPG install, search for it.

Cheers!!!

panky12345 · 24th May 2006, 04:08

any inputs on deisel --> CNG conversion. Ok it doesnt affect much in MPFI petrol but wass up for deisel?

prakash2757 · 24th May 2006, 06:24

Woha, nice thread. I am in Bangalore CNG is totally out of sight here.. Only option left is LPG. Which seems to be a best bet.. People say LPG spoild engine & all stuff.. but I feel it will not be of any problem as I have read all ur real life exp.. Thanks for a useful info..

For all U guys with LPG kits fitted. Can anyone tel me which company's LPG kits do u use ? Which is best ? Price as well performance wise..

9th April 2006, 23:17	#16
panky12345 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,697 Thanked: 171 Times	LPG (legal or illegal) is bit risky if u smoke....am also planning to convert my Indica from deisel to CNG....trying to figure out how can I as I have a ICE setup in the trunk.
	() Thanks

10th April 2006, 01:33	#17
gr8guzzler BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Navi Mumbai Posts: 653 Thanked: 87 Times View My Garage	Guys, I am right now going in for a LPG kit and the same question was haunting me too, which is better CNG or LPG. CNG Pros - Cheaper than LPG, right now the cost of CNG in Mumbai is 20.31 per Lt - FE will increase by around 30%, so if your vehicle is giving you an avg of 10, then you should be able to get around 13. - Very low emissions CNG Cons - Kit is expensive, at around 35-37K for MPFI vehicles - Empty tank weight is around 68Kgs, since CNG is stored at higher pressure, more metal is used hence the weight - Takes more time to fill compared to LPG - 30% drop in power - Needs more maintenance than usual - In my case availability was an issue since I stay in Navi Mumbai which does not have a CNG filling station LPG Pros - Cost, Good imported MPFI kits at 22-25K. Indian Kits available are more cheaper - Empty tank weight is just around 22 Kgs - You get cylindrical tanks which fit into your spare tyre space, good for hatchbacks where space is at premium. - Drop in power is around 5% - Maintenance is usual as compared to petrol. LPG Cons - Cost of LPG 26.20 per lt higher as compared to CNG - FE drop by 20% - Higher emissions compared to CNG As mentioned earlier, I decided to go for a LPG kit due to non availability of CNG near my place. But irrespective of whatever kit you go for, it's always good for the engine to drive atleast 25Kms on petrol after a tankful of CNG/LPG drive. Also most kit suppliers will get you the RTO registration done at the same cost. But the most important part is to get the kit retro fitted by an authorised service station who has past experience installing the kit in a similar vehicle and see to it that the kit has been tested and certified by govt agencies. Hope this info is helpful. Cheers!!!
	() Thanks

10th April 2006, 09:35	#18
manver786 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: delhi Posts: 50 Thanked: 50 Times	Hi folks, I have been using CNG in my Zen (Carb) since 1998 or 1999 (RTO approved) and has covered more than 150k on CNG. There is no harm to the engine. If the vehicle is MPFI there is no drop in power but in Carb models there is a considerable drop in power. Apart from routine maintenance or my negligence I have spent nothing. I would recommend CNG to any one without any doubts. Initially when it was installed in my car I had sleepless nights as there was considerable drop in power when the AC is switched on as compared to Petrol. Now I am used to it and enjoy the savings. A friend of mine got the CNG kit installed in his MPFI zen and I find no drop in power whether on AC or non-AC. Thanks, manu
	() Thanks

10th April 2006, 13:20	#19
somebodystopme BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 519 Thanked: 43 Times View My Garage	Hi i am a bit confused what do u mean by drop in power?? Is it drop in like pickup, acceleration thingy?? Or likr something to do with Electricity or altenator in car???
	() Thanks

21st May 2006, 15:02	#22
wannaplay Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Location: hyderabad Posts: 4 Thanked: 0 Times	hi guys I have been reading all the posts But I dont see any converts for a Ford Ikon 1.6 , Any one have any idea if the converstion is suscess full on a Ford ikon now i am thinking of converting my Ikon into GAS ,But a Does any one know any good mechanics in Hyderabad Last edited by wannaplay : 21st May 2006 at 15:03.
	() Thanks

21st May 2006, 21:04	#23
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	@ Direct Injection " From what I understand, there is a shortage of natural gas all over the country. (Remember, banks have stopped financing gas based power projects because of this and are only giving loans to coal based thermal power projects). Hence, all this talk of Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline. There appears to be tacit understanding between the govt. and vehicle manufacturers not to manufacture and sell gas-based vehicles in large numbers.[/quote]" Mistaken My friend, The country is short on LPG not CNG...! CNG is available in abundant source almost everywhere in the world..Since LPG is not a natural form of GAS...It has to be made in refinery plants..Hence Added cost + The entire country's cooking needs is fuelled by LPG Gas in Piped or Cylinder form's..! The Pipe-line will carry CNG..! The worlds largest Gas basin has been found in Krishna-Godavri Basin ( Which ofcourse is back home in India)..! All Oil Well's have CNG Gas in them as residue or Air-pockets...! Last edited by wolfinstein : 21st May 2006 at 21:09.
	() Thanks

23rd May 2006, 10:48	#24
mithun BANNED Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,195 Thanked: 268 Times	Why CNG filling stations are a rarety in our country (except delhi) ? Is it bcoz of the availability of crude CNG less when compared to LPG ?
	() Thanks

23rd May 2006, 12:00	#25
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,922 Thanked: 2,699 Times	Without jumping on the whys and hows of CNG versus LPG availability let me draw out a few points. First of all, my vote goes for LPG. Here's why, * LPG won't cause a noticeable drop in power. This is very important if you are habituated to your peppy petrol engine. I have driven a M800 on LPG. With 3 fully grown-up adults it could do wheelspins! * LPG does not cause as big a drop in FE as some people seem to suggest it does (20%?!!!). In fact more often than not for 1 litre of of both fuels you may find that while with petrol your car giveskmpl 13 with LPG it is somewhere around 12-12.5 kms. * AutoLPG in hyderabad costs Rs.30 a liter compared to the Rs.50 for petrol. That is still a massive saving. * LPG is one of the most natural replacement for petrol and does not need any modifications as such for the engine. Not so with CNG, one of the main reasons why CNG conversion is more time consuming, difficult and costly. * LPG (AutoLPG) is nowadays available in almost all the big (and even not so big) cities. Even Reliance has the facility in many of its pumps. CNG is something you will be hard-pressed to find once you are out of Delhi. Even a city like Hyderabad has no CNG pumps. So a CNG vehicle means forget those intra-city runs... your car is meant only for Delhi. Important for people who may take a job in a different city tomorrow and move out. * Finally, outside delhi almost all taxis and ricks are getting converted to LPG. They have clocked miles and they will vouch for what is a common knowledge. That a kit installation done at RTO approved places with proper certifications DOES NOT cause any damage to the engine. Think about all these before you decide on CNG versus LPG thing. To me LPG is a more natural replacement for petrol than CNG.
	() Thanks

23rd May 2006, 16:17	#26
lodhra BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 197 Thanked: 40 Times	Hi Let me join in the debate. I have Lpg fitted on my Gypsy. Everyone knows about the neve ending thirst of Gypsy. To add to it I have A/c on it. Now when i intially started, A/c did not have a FICD unit that increased the rpm. Also tyres were bald (Nylon). Lpg gave an FE of 6/kg with A/c on in the city. I installed the FICD, changed t radials . (REcommended size 205/70) mine (195/65) aand the fue economy improved to 8/kg. Now i consulted a renowned LPG fitment centre and did some fine tuning. The gas flow should be kept at 14 on the metere not less not more with and without A/c for that they do some fine tuning. My Fe improved to 12/kg with A/c anf fully loaded car. There is marginal drop in pickup. This will only be known when u have to move from 3rd to 4th gear ( in my case). One advantage LPG has that it can used till the last drop unlike cng. Tips Get the best kit. If u dont wanna go for auto transfer get installed imported BRC italian switch so that u car wont stop when switching to neutral from LPG mode to Petrol a case seen with Indian switches. I have done almost 5k now on my gypsy and lpg is cool. When i started it was 26rs per kg and it is infact now dropped to 23rs per kg as on may 19 2006 Decide for urself To add one more point. LPG has a strong data where in italy 80%, UK and USA 40% use LPG on their cars. A thing that has so great folloing is bound to be hassle free One caution is that if u have not drilled a hole to filt Lpg inlet then leave your trunk door open for a few secs after the gas is filled and do not smoke in the car for atleast 20 mins. If the inlet is out no probs. Also a chemical is added to the LPG kit to detect leaks. A leak immediately stops gas transfer. Get propere xonsultation. Research on the net and chose the right option For me LPG all the way Last edited by lodhra : 23rd May 2006 at 16:18.
	() Thanks

24th May 2006, 04:08	#29
panky12345 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,697 Thanked: 171 Times	any inputs on deisel --> CNG conversion. Ok it doesnt affect much in MPFI petrol but wass up for deisel?
	() Thanks

24th May 2006, 06:24	#30
prakash2757 BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 90 Thanked: Once	Woha, nice thread. I am in Bangalore CNG is totally out of sight here.. Only option left is LPG. Which seems to be a best bet.. People say LPG spoild engine & all stuff.. but I feel it will not be of any problem as I have read all ur real life exp.. Thanks for a useful info.. For all U guys with LPG kits fitted. Can anyone tel me which company's LPG kits do u use ? Which is best ? Price as well performance wise..
	() Thanks