Advice on CNG Conversion

directinjection · 24th May 2006, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by panky12345

any inputs on deisel --> CNG conversion. Ok it doesnt affect much in MPFI petrol but wass up for deisel?

Converting a diesel into CNG is a lot more complicated and I don't think is worth the effort. It does not make any economic sense also. In Delhi, the entire bus fleet was converted to CNG not for any economic reason but because of the Supreme Court order which could not be disobeyed. As it is, diesel is some 33% cheaper than petrol and on top of it, the diesel engine is inherently more efficient than petrol by about 33%. So, compared to a petrol engine, you are already 66% better off. (Guys, pardon my arithmatic if it's wrong!)

lodhra · 24th May 2006, 15:22

Hi zappo

Yeah the fuel economy increased. LPG tuning should be taken seriously. I see lots of people who just use it as a cost saving factor. Infact with proper tuning u can get best results. As LPg does not heat ur engine much in stalled traffics u can get good ac output in carb cars. In my case i have changed the electricals of the car. Put in different relays for fogs, horns and Ac. And that surely helps. With petrol my gypsy in city gives me a average of about 10-11 though i cannot be pretty sure about it. LPG tends to give u low average in initial stages as u get used to gearing with it , improvements are seen. Also visit a LPG expert every 3 monts to check gas flow pressure if u constantly switch between petrol and LPG. I will put up another thread oh the exact costs of reoing my Gypsy with LPG A?C and change of electricals if someone can guide me under which forukm i have to post

gr8guzzler · 25th May 2006, 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lodhra

LPG tends to give u low average in initial stages as u get used to gearing with it

I recently got my Ikon converted and gearing while on gas is a bit different. i was thinking the tuning was not right or something. My engine revvs a bit more when I press the clutch to change gears and the same does not happen when I'm running purely on petrol. Is this what you were referring to?

Also since you are in Mumbai, can you let me know where you got your kit tuned, I would like to get the same done too.

Finally...you can start a new thread under Modifications if you want to provide more details...

Cheers!!!

lodhra · 25th May 2006, 14:25

Hi gr8

I was given the opinion that the car does not knock in LPG hence maybe u are experiencing the rev up situation. Initially i too got the same problem. I think its just our perception of the car since we have been driving so long with petrol , LPG mode suddenly takes us by surprise. But surely as you experiment it becomes much easier. I did my car at Suman auto LPg which is at link road goregaon. He has his website too http://cng-lpg-conversion.com/

Thank you for the advice will soon post the thread.

jdutt · 19th August 2006, 01:33

Guys pls tell......

Lets say i got my car converted to LPG/CNG, either of them. Now imagine my gas is over while running and due to some reason i am not able to fill it. Then i run on petrol. BEcause the tuning is done to suit the LPG or CNG kit will i get VERY poor FE if i drive on petrol. SAy before conversion FE with petrol is 10/Lt. Will it go down drastically if run on petrol after getting the either Kit installed ?

wolfinstein · 19th August 2006, 22:30

@ Jdutt, The engine tuning and engine settings remain the same...! The setting for CNG or LPG are done at the Reducer end or the section where the pipes are connecting into the throttle..! My XETA runs same..! Petrol or CNG. The FE is same 11 Kmpl on Petrol and 16-17 on CNG..!

jdutt · 20th August 2006, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfinstein

@ Jdutt, The engine tuning and engine settings remain the same...! The setting for CNG or LPG are done at the Reducer end or the section where the pipes are connecting into the throttle..! My XETA runs same..! Petrol or CNG. The FE is same 11 Kmpl on Petrol and 16-17 on CNG..!

That solves one of my worries..........Wolf, do you seen ANY ANY ANY drop in engine response and power (Used 3 times any to be very specific) when u drive with CNG and whats your top speed with CNG ?

How does Xeta behaves with switching ON a/c while running on gas ? Any sluggish experianced....

wolfinstein · 20th August 2006, 23:00

All right intial drop in lower gears yes...! I cruise on 80 with AC on 5th..! During traffic times I need to shift into lower gears for a stop and go pickup, however while moving shift into a 3 is sufficient to pick on...! Top speed I clocked with CNG mode and with AC was 100 km...on Noida-Fortis road...! You can get the exact details from my review..!
AC ke saath no performance change in 3/4/5 Gear considering you are above 50 Km..! However if you're in lower speeds Car feels heavier..!

jdutt · 20th August 2006, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfinstein

Top speed I clocked with CNG mode and with AC was 100 km...on Noida-Fortis road...! You can get the exact details from my review..!

Not boasting about anything........my TOP speed with petrol 155 Kmph at Noida toll road.

By the way where i can see your review ?

Regards.

esteem_lover · 21st August 2006, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by directinjection

Converting a diesel into CNG is a lot more complicated and I don't think is worth the effort. It does not make any economic sense also. In Delhi, the entire bus fleet was converted to CNG not for any economic reason but because of the Supreme Court order which could not be disobeyed. As it is, diesel is some 33% cheaper than petrol and on top of it, the diesel engine is inherently more efficient than petrol by about 33%. So, compared to a petrol engine, you are already 66% better off.

Quote:

(Guys, pardon my arithmatic if it's wrong!)

so i guess, if the driver is 34% more efficient, then the diesel car would be 100% better off than the petrol one , eh ? its not arithmetic, it is fantasticmetic.

ess_a · 21st August 2006, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

so i guess, if the driver is 34% more efficient, then the diesel car would be 100% better off than the petrol one , eh ? its not arithmetic, it is fantasticmetic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by directinjection

Converting a diesel into CNG is a lot more complicated and I don't think is worth the effort. It does not make any economic sense also. In Delhi, the entire bus fleet was converted to CNG not for any economic reason but because of the Supreme Court order which could not be disobeyed. As it is, diesel is some 33% cheaper than petrol and on top of it, the diesel engine is inherently more efficient than petrol by about 33%. So, compared to a petrol engine, you are already 66% better off. (Guys, pardon my arithmatic if it's wrong!)

You are actually 50% better off in this scenario!! not 66%....

Ok now i also have a question.... Is CNG good for an Alto.... It is already underpowered especially when the A/C is on.... Do u guys think there wont be a significant loss of power.... secondly what cylinder size should i be fitting if at all i go for CNG???

ess_a · 9th September 2006, 14:38

Quote:

Ok now i also have a question.... Is CNG good for an Alto.... It is already underpowered especially when the A/C is on.... Do u guys think there wont be a significant loss of power.... secondly what cylinder size should i be fitting if at all i go for CNG???

One thing more... Cant euro III cars be retrofitted with CNG kits? The delhi transport authority's site says only cars upto euro II norms can go for the conversion...
Plus does any one know of a good cng intaller in delhi and what kit to go for.... Landi renzo doesnt have kits for euro III cars.... Only Bendini does... Is this true?

wolfinstein · 9th September 2006, 19:34

Don't you know how Goverment Sites work..! Lol

Well it depends on which Euro 3 Car Kits have been approved as of now- TATA, HM,GM Kits are approved...Waise it really does not matter..You can get a new car converted...just that older cars cannot ..Lets say Current Bharat Stage 3,2,1...Legally not prior to that..!
Ya Bedini is Euro 3 ready, You could visit www.iglonline.com and find approved fitters.

ess_a · 19th September 2006, 17:55

Checked with Shrimankar in Okhla... The guy said till now the bedini kit they have is not for alto euroIII... He also added that right now the govt has put on hold cng conversions and some new norms are expected to come by 21-22 sept... Now how come if cng kits are available for other euro III cars like xeta and city, they are not for alto? And any review on IMPCO, BRC kits....?

wolfinstein · 19th September 2006, 18:56

spoke with them again, regarding this New Norm and Was advised that it is expected but can't say when..Since the Kits have to be approved by CRI and ARAI ( Or whatever the Transport Authority of India ( Not RTO) is called) that is why the kits for Alto and Palio is yet awaited, However you can go for a older fittment, the only difference with the Euro 3 kit will be an Advanced Lamda Sensor,which you can ask to be installed later when the kits come up.

24th May 2006, 15:22	#32
lodhra BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 197 Thanked: 41 Times	Hi zappo Yeah the fuel economy increased. LPG tuning should be taken seriously. I see lots of people who just use it as a cost saving factor. Infact with proper tuning u can get best results. As LPg does not heat ur engine much in stalled traffics u can get good ac output in carb cars. In my case i have changed the electricals of the car. Put in different relays for fogs, horns and Ac. And that surely helps. With petrol my gypsy in city gives me a average of about 10-11 though i cannot be pretty sure about it. LPG tends to give u low average in initial stages as u get used to gearing with it , improvements are seen. Also visit a LPG expert every 3 monts to check gas flow pressure if u constantly switch between petrol and LPG. I will put up another thread oh the exact costs of reoing my Gypsy with LPG A?C and change of electricals if someone can guide me under which forukm i have to post
	() Thanks

25th May 2006, 14:25	#34
lodhra BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 197 Thanked: 41 Times	Hi gr8 I was given the opinion that the car does not knock in LPG hence maybe u are experiencing the rev up situation. Initially i too got the same problem. I think its just our perception of the car since we have been driving so long with petrol , LPG mode suddenly takes us by surprise. But surely as you experiment it becomes much easier. I did my car at Suman auto LPg which is at link road goregaon. He has his website too http://cng-lpg-conversion.com/ Thank you for the advice will soon post the thread.
	(1) Thanks

19th August 2006, 01:33	#35
jdutt Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 13 Thanked: 0 Times	Guys pls tell...... Lets say i got my car converted to LPG/CNG, either of them. Now imagine my gas is over while running and due to some reason i am not able to fill it. Then i run on petrol. BEcause the tuning is done to suit the LPG or CNG kit will i get VERY poor FE if i drive on petrol. SAy before conversion FE with petrol is 10/Lt. Will it go down drastically if run on petrol after getting the either Kit installed ?
	() Thanks

19th August 2006, 22:30	#36
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	@ Jdutt, The engine tuning and engine settings remain the same...! The setting for CNG or LPG are done at the Reducer end or the section where the pipes are connecting into the throttle..! My XETA runs same..! Petrol or CNG. The FE is same 11 Kmpl on Petrol and 16-17 on CNG..!
	() Thanks

20th August 2006, 23:00	#38
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	All right intial drop in lower gears yes...! I cruise on 80 with AC on 5th..! During traffic times I need to shift into lower gears for a stop and go pickup, however while moving shift into a 3 is sufficient to pick on...! Top speed I clocked with CNG mode and with AC was 100 km...on Noida-Fortis road...! You can get the exact details from my review..! AC ke saath no performance change in 3/4/5 Gear considering you are above 50 Km..! However if you're in lower speeds Car feels heavier..!
	() Thanks

9th September 2006, 19:34	#43
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	Don't you know how Goverment Sites work..! Lol Well it depends on which Euro 3 Car Kits have been approved as of now- TATA, HM,GM Kits are approved...Waise it really does not matter..You can get a new car converted...just that older cars cannot ..Lets say Current Bharat Stage 3,2,1...Legally not prior to that..! Ya Bedini is Euro 3 ready, You could visit www.iglonline.com and find approved fitters.
	() Thanks

19th September 2006, 17:55	#44
ess_a BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 317 Thanked: 6 Times	Checked with Shrimankar in Okhla... The guy said till now the bedini kit they have is not for alto euroIII... He also added that right now the govt has put on hold cng conversions and some new norms are expected to come by 21-22 sept... Now how come if cng kits are available for other euro III cars like xeta and city, they are not for alto? And any review on IMPCO, BRC kits....? Last edited by ess_a : 19th September 2006 at 17:59.
	() Thanks

19th September 2006, 18:56	#45
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	spoke with them again, regarding this New Norm and Was advised that it is expected but can't say when..Since the Kits have to be approved by CRI and ARAI ( Or whatever the Transport Authority of India ( Not RTO) is called) that is why the kits for Alto and Palio is yet awaited, However you can go for a older fittment, the only difference with the Euro 3 kit will be an Advanced Lamda Sensor,which you can ask to be installed later when the kits come up.
	() Thanks