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Old 12th February 2021, 11:15   #676
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by WanderinNomad View Post
Guys, have a couple of questions.

1 Is there any problem with installing CNG in such an old car? I do not want to ruin a perfectly capable car that has served my family for such a long time but am also tempted to take advantage of a cheaper and greener fuel.

2 In Uttarakhand CNG is relatively new, and I can only find dealers of Mijo brand kits. Does anyone have any experience with this brand?

3 My preferred brands are BRC and Lovato which are easily available with Delhi installers. However, what I have been told is that I will have to get the kit installed from an authorized dealer in Uttarakhand only to get it endorsed on RC. Any ideas about the same or any workaround?

3 I want to install a sequential kit and do not mind the cost difference. Is it compatible with older cars like mine?

4 @Frankmehta; I read in your thread that there is a 14kg light-weight cylinder available too. Most of the installers I have talked to have no clue regarding the same. Can anyone give some details on the same?

@Max; Just read your posts on your 2004 Honda city iDSI. Any update on the long-term performance of this engine on CNG.

By the way, before anyone comments the car's running has increased a lot in the past couple of years and it does around 50kms daily now.
1. It doesn't matter unless the engine is in bad shape, visit a CNG installer or a few and take recommendations.

3. Did you ask this from a CNG guy or from RTO? Visit the RTO once and talk to people over there. Generally this isn't the case. Maruti/ Hyundai's have Factory fitted kits that are registered in other states. This doesn't make sense IMO. But, it might be that UK RTO doesn't recognise Delhi installers as authorised for their list.
And if this is the case, grease some palms and you could get the work done. I'd refrain myself from getting CNG installed from Dehradun as they don't have a lot of experience in fitting CNG kits.

Yes, you can get a Sequential Kit on any car as long as it is Fuel injected and not Carburetor

Also, do weigh the options of buying a new car with factory fitted CNG. I have been doing the same. I have been around too many people with CNG on their cars and issues cropping up here and there after few months. Factory fitted cars are factory calibrated to run on CNG fuel and usually have dedicated spare parts. They are a better bet.

Last edited by Schneller : 12th February 2021 at 11:19.
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Old 12th February 2021, 17:35   #677
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by Schneller View Post
1. It doesn't matter unless the engine is in bad shape, visit a CNG installer or a few and take recommendations.

3. Did you ask this from a CNG guy or from RTO? Visit the RTO once and talk to people over there. Generally this isn't the case. Maruti/ Hyundai's have Factory fitted kits that are registered in other states. This doesn't make sense IMO. But, it might be that UK RTO doesn't recognise Delhi installers as authorised for their list.
And if this is the case, grease some palms and you could get the work done. I'd refrain myself from getting CNG installed from Dehradun as they don't have a lot of experience in fitting CNG kits.

Yes, you can get a Sequential Kit on any car as long as it is Fuel injected and not Carburetor

Also, do weigh the options of buying a new car with factory fitted CNG. I have been doing the same. I have been around too many people with CNG on their cars and issues cropping up here and there after few months. Factory fitted cars are factory calibrated to run on CNG fuel and usually have dedicated spare parts. They are a better bet.
Thanks for the reply. CNG conversion is not much popular on team-bhp which is very surprising since most of us love driving and are tired of the ever-rising fuel costs.

The car is in excellent condition and can easily serve me for 5 more years or even longer if the government allows it. Have visited a Mijo kit installer and he has recommended that I should install a sequential CNG kit in this model

No, I have not visited the RTO but have talked to some installers in Delhi as well as Dehradun. You are right, Delhi installers are not in the approved list of Dehradun RTO. Do not know whether greasing the palms of an agent will work!

Frankly, RTO hassles are too many. Let me elaborate-

1 UK RTO allows only some brands of kits such as Mijo, Highrise. I will find out which other brands are approved. Kits like Lovato and BRC are not approved.
Although, as per my research Mijo brand is quite good. In fact, nowadays, all sequential kits of reputed brands are good so this doesn't seem to be a problem.

2 As you said, UK RTO does not have NCR fitment centres in their approved list. I would any day prefer an NCR installer over UK one. So this is a problem.

3 And now the biggest problem, UK RTO is not allowing cars older than 10 years for CNG retro fitment. This is simply foolish since Honda City 2006 is BS3 compliant and many other states allow BS3 and BS4 vehicles for CNG retro fitment. Due to this new development, I am stuck. A major CNG installer in UK claims that he has filed an appeal with the RTO for this rule and he should get a waiver within 1-2 months.

So, If I have to install a CNG in my car, I will have to run it illegally. Which for some strange reason, doesn't seem to be a big issue to a law-abiding citizen like me. I am sure no-one checks cars for CNG / Non-CNG in India and if caught, a few hundred rupees should sort out the issue. To be extra comfortable, I will even consider covering the CNG cylinder with a fabricated subwoofer installation. However, my car will be completing 15 years in August 2021 and will have to get it re-registered in June-July. For that particular day, I will have to take out my CNG fitment and get it re-installed post the fitness test. This seems too much of a hassle.

The blatant disrespect for laws may receive a lot of moral-policing from forum members. However, seeing the state of affairs I think a middle-class guy like me should become practical rather than ethical. I have been in the energy sector for some time and I know how difficult it is for private industries to shift to renewable energy. The companies are willing to invest crores of rupees to save money as well as the evironment but the babus in state government have an entirely different agenda. Engineers working in the energy sector and who have experience in open access license procurement may understand what I am talking about. My personal case of CNG conversion is just a smaller version of what I have experienced in my professional life.

Apologies for the rant. Coming back to the topic, I would like to keep my car because of sentimental reasons. Even if I buy a new car, I would be keeping this car till the government allows it. The car is extremely reliable and has almost nil resale value. This makes the decision to keep the car even easier.
The only problem with buying a new car is that I am single and do not have use for two cars.

Coming to CNG retro-fitment issues, I think CNG has got a bad name from old venturi kits and road-side installers. All sorts of 'jugaads' have been allowed in this sector and it is a highly uncontrolled industry. However, if you get a new branded sequential kit installed from a reputed installer, the issues should be negligible.
Additionally, you may have to get a timing advancer installed, get your car serviced at 8000km instead of 10000kms, change spark plugs, air filter much sooner, etc. These precautions should take care of any issues.
I am willing to do the above so that I can enjoy driving at one-third of the cost.
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Old 12th February 2021, 18:50   #678
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by WanderinNomad View Post
Thanks for the reply. CNG conversion is not much popular on team-bhp which is very surprising since most of us love driving and are tired of the ever-rising fuel costs.

So, If I have to install a CNG in my car, I will have to run it illegally. Which for some strange reason, doesn't seem to be a big issue to a law-abiding citizen like me. I am sure no-one checks cars for CNG / Non-CNG in India and if caught, a few hundred rupees should sort out the issue. To be extra comfortable, I will even consider covering the CNG cylinder with a fabricated subwoofer installation. However, my car will be completing 15 years in August 2021 and will have to get it re-registered in June-July. For that particular day, I will have to take out my CNG fitment and get it re-installed post the fitness test. This seems too much of a hassle.
.
Well it is not popular for a reason, us BHPians hate risking shoddy fitment and, there is always a risk in non-oem fitted kits acting up. But, now i expect CNG to catch up with the Skyrocketing prices of Petrol and diesel.

Get your RC renewed, go to a CNG installer in Delhi and get the kit installed. The bad name for CNG fitment is usually due to lack of support for these kits. Even OEM fitted kits are not serviced because most workshops do no know that they have to change filters.

No one checks for CNG usually but, at times when travelling interstate near 26 Jan and 15 Aug, my boot has been checked so, avoid these dates. Rest you can proceed. Just pick a good time to get it installed and stay in Delhi for 2-3 days and ride your car out to check any issues. Additionally I recommend getting a CNG kit from the brands available in Your state as repair and servicing will be easier for you.
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Old 12th February 2021, 21:21   #679
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by Schneller View Post
Well it is not popular for a reason, us BHPians hate risking shoddy fitment and, there is always a risk in non-oem fitted kits acting up. But, now i expect CNG to catch up with the Skyrocketing prices of Petrol and diesel.

Get your RC renewed, go to a CNG installer in Delhi and get the kit installed. The bad name for CNG fitment is usually due to lack of support for these kits. Even OEM fitted kits are not serviced because most workshops do no know that they have to change filters.

No one checks for CNG usually but, at times when travelling interstate near 26 Jan and 15 Aug, my boot has been checked so, avoid these dates. Rest you can proceed. Just pick a good time to get it installed and stay in Delhi for 2-3 days and ride your car out to check any issues. Additionally I recommend getting a CNG kit from the brands available in Your state as repair and servicing will be easier for you.
Yes, I agree, getting a popular kit (in UK) installed from an NCR installer should be a good choice. Getting it installed in NCR is also not a problem since I am in Delhi at least once a month. Sadly, I didn't want to go the illegal route but let's see if the government leaves me a choice.
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Old 12th February 2021, 21:44   #680
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by WanderinNomad View Post
Yes, I agree, getting a popular kit (in UK) installed from an NCR installer should be a good choice. Getting it installed in NCR is also not a problem since I am in Delhi at least once a month. Sadly, I didn't want to go the illegal route but let's see if the government leaves me a choice.
If you choose to forgo the sentiments with the car, you can look at the Gi10 Nios Sportz CNG model. Had the pleasure of driving it and it is quite the package. But nothing beats sentimental value. I just sold off my a First car (bought when i turned 18) for an upgrade and have been missing it
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Old 18th February 2021, 18:45   #681
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by WanderinNomad View Post
Guys, have a couple of questions.

I have a 15-year-old Honda city ZX Idsi which has covered 1.08 Lacs km to date.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...a-city-zx.html (14 years & 1 lakh km with the 2nd-gen Honda City ZX)

My city, Dehradun has just opened up to CNG and I am toying around with the idea of getting a kit installed. The car is in immaculate condition and will easily last 5 more years post-re-registration this year.
Now I have a couple of questions before I pull the trigger.

1 Is there any problem with installing CNG in such an old car? I do not want to ruin a perfectly capable car that has served my family for such a long time but am also tempted to take advantage of a cheaper and greener fuel.

2 In Uttarakhand CNG is relatively new, and I can only find dealers of Mijo brand kits. Does anyone have any experience with this brand?

3 My preferred brands are BRC and Lovato which are easily available with Delhi installers. However, what I have been told is that I will have to get the kit installed from an authorized dealer in Uttarakhand only to get it endorsed on RC. Any ideas about the same or any workaround?

3 I want to install a sequential kit and do not mind the cost difference. Is it compatible with older cars like mine?

4 @Frankmehta; I read in your thread that there is a 14kg light-weight cylinder available too. Most of the installers I have talked to have no clue regarding the same. Can anyone give some details on the same?

@Max; Just read your posts on your 2004 Honda city iDSI. Any update on the long-term performance of this engine on CNG.

By the way, before anyone comments the car's running has increased a lot in the past couple of years and it does around 50kms daily now.
Well, the rising petrol prices, as well as, recent opening of cng pumps in my city has made me go CNG with the car.

Very soon I will be going in for the following-

1 installing Mijo sequential kit from a government authorized center in Uttarakhand.

2 There is a shortage of 14kg cylinders and the only option is to buy a used hydrotested one. I do not want to fit a 12kg cylinder since it takes up more boot space in this car. Will be installing a new 12kg one and changing it to 14kg once it becomes available. The installer has agreed on this.

3 No RC endorsement since the government does not allow BS3 and BS6 cars to be retro-fitted on RC

4 The car will go for its re-registration in June. Will get the kit removed and re-installed for fitness test.

5 The CNG cost will be 34k which can be recovered in 12000 kms

6 Sadly, the fitter will cut 4 wires on injectors. I wanted coupler to coupler fitment but can't find one in Uttarakhand

7 Service schedules will be shortened to 7500km post CNG installation.

Let's see how this goes.
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Old 18th February 2021, 19:19   #682
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

I believe the lightweight tank is not an rto approved one and that capacity is no longer available. You can try asking for it but I doubt you'll get it
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Old 19th February 2021, 00:35   #683
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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I believe the lightweight tank is not an rto approved one and that capacity is no longer available. You can try asking for it but I doubt you'll get it
Yes not available now. In fact I am having difficulty sourcing the 14kg one too.

By the way, Is cutting the four petrol injector wires OK? Or should I search for someone who does coupler fitting only. My installer does awesome fitting and I prefer him because he is local. But he says coupler fitting leads to issues. For coupler wiring I will have to find someone in delhi.
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Old 20th February 2021, 13:18   #684
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Default Factory fitted vs Retro fitted CNG Kits

Hello BHPians,

I am considering buying a car for city commutes. My daily run is around 60 kms & I am considering buying a CNG hatchback for this purpose.

The thing that is bothering me is limited choices I have with factory fitted cng offerings, I am leaning towards WagonR but it is offered only in base variant, while Hyundai offers Nios in 2 variants with CNG, but I find them highly overpriced. I like the new Kiger as well but unfortunately it isn't available as a CNG option. Everything is so confusing at the moment.

1. Is there any difference between factory fitted CNG kits & retro fitted kits in terms of safety & reliability?
2. Can any petrol car be converted to CNG?

Please help me clear this dilemma!
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Old 20th February 2021, 14:44   #685
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Default Re: Factory fitted vs Retro fitted CNG Kits

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Originally Posted by techieaditya View Post
Hello BHPians,

I am considering buying a car for city commutes. My daily run is around 60 kms & I am considering buying a CNG hatchback for this purpose.

The thing that is bothering me is limited choices I have with factory fitted cng offerings, I am leaning towards WagonR but it is offered only in base variant, while Hyundai offers Nios in 2 variants with CNG, but I find them highly overpriced. I like the new Kiger as well but unfortunately it isn't available as a CNG option. Everything is so confusing at the moment.

1. Is there any difference between factory fitted CNG kits & retro fitted kits in terms of safety & reliability?
2. Can any petrol car be converted to CNG?

Please help me clear this dilemma!
Let me try answering your questions:

1. I confirm any petrol car can be converted to CNG. But, there's lack of good tuners in market, especially for turbo petrol cars. Latter may need more than a few visits to the CNG installer.

2. Factory fitted kits offer peace of mind as to warranty & ease of service support. Everything else is lip service of lack of experience as per my experience (both Maruti & Hyundai CNG-ed vehicles are there in my circle).

3. Most popular cylinder capacity in CNG vehicles is 12 kg (~ 60 liters). Factory fitted vehicles come with this kit. However, you can opt for 14-16 kg cylinder when going after market (16 kgs one is difficult to get as far as my experience goes). Moreover, fitting a 14-16 kg capacity cylinder in Maruti & newer Hyundai cars may not be appropriate, it can damage the body & suspension easily.

4. Factory fitted or after market kit, you need to go for once a year service too. Hydro-testing of cylinder is also required at regular intervals.

5. Wagon-R & i10 NIOS aren't same segment cars. But, Wagon-R ticks most boxes if you are in budget. You can always opt for dealer fitted kit for peace of mind (considering the vehicle will primarily be used within city).

6. Mileage (per kg) will vary from 20-30 kmpkg depending on conditions & time of drive.

BTW what are the features that are.missing on LXi variant of Wagon-R.

Best of luck with your purchase
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Old 20th February 2021, 15:37   #686
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Default Re: Factory fitted vs Retro fitted CNG Kits

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Best of luck with your purchase
Thank you for taking time to explain everything in detail.

I own a swift dzire (diesel) & intend to keep it, so I want to keep the budget tight.

The two major features that are missing in Wagon R Lxi are: Security system & adjustable steering.

Is there any difference in terms of safety between factory fitted & after market CNG kits (if getting it done from a reputed dealer & getting a sequential kit like lovato or BrC)?
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Old 20th February 2021, 17:57   #687
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Default Re: Factory fitted vs Retro fitted CNG Kits

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Originally Posted by techieaditya View Post
Thank you for taking time to explain everything in detail.

I own a swift dzire (diesel) & intend to keep it, so I want to keep the budget tight.

The two major features that are missing in Wagon R Lxi are: Security system & adjustable steering.

Is there any difference in terms of safety between factory fitted & after market CNG kits (if getting it done from a reputed dealer & getting a sequential kit like lovato or BrC)?
For the Wagon-R you can get the Security System installed from dealer (they would happily honour the warranty in that case). How important is adjustable steering for you? I don't feel it's as important as have lived it on all cars. Japanese cars have ergonomics spot on in my opinion. My Aspire has height adjustable steering, but has only 2 settings & I haven't changed it ever after 1st day.

Re getting the kit installed from reputed installer outside company ASS, it's difficult to fault either brands. It boils down to your choice & local feedback.
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Old 21st February 2021, 15:08   #688
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

My Pune based cousin wants to install a Sequential CNG kit on his 2015 Honda Amaze petrol automatic. The car has done 50k kms and is in good shape to run for another 50k at least. He will be using this as a daily beater with a daily running of approx 50kms.
Post our research we’ve zeroed in on Lovato and Tomasetto.

Pooja Motors (Kothrud) have quoted a price of INR36k for the Tomasetto kit with a booster and RTO documentation charges. PuneCNG (Wakad) has quoted inr48k for the lovato kit. My questions for the forum members are:

1. Both appear to have similar hardware and processes but have a substantial price difference of 12-13k. Is it advisable to go with Tomasetto?
2. Does anyone have any previous experience at these garages?
3. Any particulars to keep in mind while installing an aftermarket CNG setup?

Selling this off and buying a factory fitted cng car is not an option.
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Old 21st February 2021, 17:29   #689
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

Quick Points for anyone who is interested in installing a CNG in his/her car-
I have been researching on this topic and would like to share my research with the forum.


I will keep the post in points for ease of understanding.

1 Basic Kit types: First of all, you should be aware that there are two basic type of kits available, Venturi and sequential. I will not go into technical details as a quick search on google will give you that.
All MPFI cars should only be fitted with a sequential kit. So, if you are driving a car which is manufactured post 2001, you need a sequential kit.

2 Types of sequential kits: Basically there are two types . Normal and OBD2.
Everything about both these kits is exactly the same except for the fact that OBD2 kit helps the tuner to tune the kit without connecting a separate OBD2 scanner. In non OBD2 kits, a good tuner should connect to the OBD2 port separately to finely tune the car. Do not get confused with various categories of the same brand or different brands. It is as simple as that.

3 Which type of kit from the above two should be fitted in your car?

Turbo petrol cars : OBD2
Modern Tata cars : OBD2
BS6 cars : OBD2
All other cars : Normal sequential is fine.

4 Which brand to choose : It doesn't matter as long as the kit is genuine.
Lovato, BRC, Zavoli, - Italian
Mijo,Highrise, Msequent- indian
Tomassito , Tomassito India
Motozen, Landirenzo, Egreen , Emer, Greco etc.

All are fine. Basically, all the kits have the same functioning and are pretty straightforward. All these kits have advanced in the last decade to offer an acceptable level of quality.

5 Price: Most original kits are between 30k-35k.
Lovato retails at 40k-50k
Do not worry about 2k-3k less or more as even an 800km run will give you that amount back

6 Installer : While choosing any brand is fine, please be careful about the installer. Choose an authorized distributor of any of the brand above, check how he is doing the installation on a car and remain with your car while installation. Remember this industry is highly unorganized in India. This is really important to avoid being conned

7 Cutting wires: The only OEM wires that need cutting are petrol injector ECM wires to connect them to CNG ECM. A good installed should use couplers and not cut even these wires. Ensure that no wires are cut in your car making it entirely reversible.

8 Cylinder size: Most commonly available are 12kg/14kg. They are installed as per the space available. Certain cars like Tiago are not wide enough to accommodate 12kg cylinder. In cars like Honda city, more useable space is freed up in the boot if you install a 14 kg cylinder. So choose accordingly.
There is not much difference in gas filling capacity ( A 14kg cylinder will take in maximun 700gms-800grams gas more which will give you an extra 15-25 km range.

9 RTO endorsement:
Here is the tricky part, thanks to our (baseless and confusing) rules -
a) BS6 cars with CNG- cannot be endorsed on RC as per government. Basically, the current kits are not approved and we will have to wait till the government legally allows it. You cannot fit a kit now and endorse it later since government will allow different type of kits for these cars.
b) BS4 cars - You are lucky. They can be endorsed on RC. You can either get it done yourself for Rs 1000 or give your installer 3k-5k to get it done for you. I would prefer the latter since each state has a list of approved kits and authorized installers in the state, only these brands fitted with the listed installers are passed. If the installer is getting it done for you, you are most probably at the right guy.
c) BS3 / pre 2010 cars- Cannot be endorsed on RC
d) Running without endorsement on RC:
- Although illegal, there aren't any challans as such on CNG.
- Your insurance goes for a toss

10 Service schedule post CNG fitment:
- In short, reduce it a little bit to compensate for drier nature of CNG fuel as well as to be on the safer side. Say your car has a service interval of 10000km , get your car serviced at 8000km.
- Air filter, spark plugs will require frequent cleaning/replacement. Say every 5000km
-Always have petrol in your car. ( Atleast 1/4th tank ). The kit will take care of the rest.
- CNG cylinder hydrotesting every 3 years which costs around Rs 1500 to Rs 2000
- Get your kit checked each time you give your car for a normal service say every 7500km.
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Old 21st February 2021, 19:51   #690
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by WanderinNomad View Post
The blatant disrespect for laws may receive a lot of moral-policing from forum members. However, seeing the state of affairs I think a middle-class guy like me should become practical rather than ethical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderinNomad View Post
d) Running without endorsement on RC:
- Although illegal, there aren't any challans as such on CNG.
- Your insurance goes for a toss
Would like to add that most fuel centres in Mumbai and Pune will not allow you to refill CNG if you don't have a CNG plate / or if it is expired. There will be few bunks where you might get the gas, but they will ask for Rs. 10-20 per kg extra and pocket the excess.
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