Are We Biased Or Just Blind??

iceman91 · 21st April 2009, 10:52

Just A query, It is in plain view to all of us but do we turn a blind eye?
my point being:
"It is sad and questionable when there are a lot more dark stories to car modifications by tuners which get pushed under a carpet and people keep mum about it, while if a dealership does one, he is grilled/boycotted/etc.etc. by tbhpians on the forum."

Why does this happen?
Have we ever thought about this?

Everyone knows it but not a lot want to talk about it, why?

I request people who have been affected or had an experience to post. Others kindly excuse, A lot of hearsay goes on and this thread is to avoid it.

We say Teambhpians stand by the TRUTH, why not out with it?

So are we Biased?

Cheers

greenhorn · 21st April 2009, 10:57

I think it is a case of 'Do as I say, and not as I do'. The 'truth' and 'transparency' is only for others, and certain others are , er, more equal.
Like they say, "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
I suspect this discussion as a whole will be closed/deleted.

iceman91 · 21st April 2009, 10:59

I too have a feeling that is going to happen but hoping that it wont

srijit · 21st April 2009, 11:07

iceman, the problem is that it will just turn into a shouting match. In the Skoda case, we had documented evidence that Skoda destroyed the customer's car. But in case of bad tooning experiences, it will just turn out to be a case of "he said, she said". Add to that the racket caused by supporters on both sides and you have got chaos.

Unless there is concrete proof, documentation etc, both sides wont shut up.
Just my opinion.

Harrie · 21st April 2009, 11:30

And in many cases the problem is not exactly because of the tuner per se. What do we do about that? Maybe what we CAN do is narrate the experiences without pointing fingers ( or naming people ) . Let the forum decide who is right and who is wrong. What say?

theMAG · 21st April 2009, 11:31

The single biggest difference is interactions with tuners are most often on a personal, informal level while those with dealers are strictly at an official level since a dealer is expected to represent the company.

Based on this presumption, outcomes of interactions with customers between tuners/dealerships vary, depending on maturity of people on both sides.

gd1418 · 21st April 2009, 11:34

I'm watching this thread with interest, unless bumped off.

iceman91 · 21st April 2009, 11:36

Agree with you Harrie,Mahesh.

My point being why are tuner stories where the customer can be at fault or the tuner or both being hushed up? Most of the times they are swept under the carpet

I agree it is a can of worms that I have opened. It could also turn into a pandoras box.

amitoj · 21st April 2009, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman91

Just A query, It is in plain view to all of us but do we turn a blind eye?
my point being:
"It is sad and questionable when there are a lot more dark stories to car modifications by tuners which get pushed under a carpet and people keep mum about it, while if a dealership does one, he is grilled/boycotted/etc.etc. by tbhpians on the forum."

Why does this happen?

When one goes to a dealership, one expects a perfectly working machine, which is right to expect, because you are getting a factory manufactured vehicle where strict quality controls are supposed to be in place and the company is supposed to have extensive testing methodologies and practices in place.

However, when one goes to a tuner, it is impractical to have those kind of expectations!! One should know the risks one is taking by getting his/her vehicle modified. You can not modify a car to get more power without compromising somewhere else with the car. There are people who are aware of these risks and hence when things dont go as expected, they dont complain. And then there are others.

Fountainheader · 21st April 2009, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMAG

The single biggest difference is interactions with tuners are most often on a personal, informal level while those with dealers are strictly at an official level since a dealer is expected to represent the company.

Based on this presumption, outcomes of interactions with customers between tuners/dealerships vary, depending on maturity of people on both sides.

+1 to this.

Also going to a tuner is more of a "personal choice". Its not everyone wants a MIVEC transplant into a Lancer or a 1.6 Baleno into a Swift.

But in the case of a dealer, its more scheduled service, parts replacement etc etc. So there is not much of a choice left here. If your brake pads fail, you have to get them replaced. Go to the dealer for a peace of mind experience (read genuine parts, quality etc etc.) But then Skoda has set a different benchmark here

suman · 21st April 2009, 11:39

Isn't there a huge difference between standard production car expectations (Dealership) & modified car expectations (Tuner)?

hrag · 21st April 2009, 11:40

Personal interaction, friendship, "forum reputation" of both tuner and customer - all reasons for dark stories being pushed under grey carpets.

iceman91 · 21st April 2009, 11:40

Amitoj, your point is well considered.
I am not talking about where the muffler does not sound good or mileage dropped by 1kmpl etc etc.
I am talking about projects gone bad/wrong due to tuner/customer error.

low_bass_makker · 21st April 2009, 11:48

I think there a certain amount of biasing and ignorance accounted for..whether is is tuner or a ICE tuner.

A little of brainwashing is also done to convince the customer. But again all is fair in business and war..

Not targeting anyone here so please do not fire back at me...Mods if you think it is wrong you can edit or delete it.

crazydiablo · 21st April 2009, 12:02

I have heard a lot of stories, I know the truth about most of them. Sometimes the tuner is at fault, sometimes the customer is at fault, most of the time its a misunderstanding.

Its mostly to do with customer expectations and reliability. The main issue is that people who are modding for the first time dont know what to expect nor are they aware of what it takes to own a modded car.

BUT what I cannot tolerate is blatant cheating. Taking money for what is not done, or taking money and doing a sub standard job or putting in reconditioned parts and charging for new parts. All this is purely unethical and give tuning as such a bad name. No wonder people stick to only FFEs and filters.

Most people do not mind paying a little extra for a job well done, but what leaves a bad taste is being cheated. None can forgive especially since we love our rides more than millions on the road.

I would also urge anybody who has had bad experiences to come out and post. But please refrain from personal insults. Just post what was expected, what got delivered and what was the failure.

21st April 2009, 10:52	#1
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	Are We Biased Or Just Blind?? Just A query, It is in plain view to all of us but do we turn a blind eye? my point being: "It is sad and questionable when there are a lot more dark stories to car modifications by tuners which get pushed under a carpet and people keep mum about it, while if a dealership does one, he is grilled/boycotted/etc.etc. by tbhpians on the forum." Why does this happen? Have we ever thought about this? Everyone knows it but not a lot want to talk about it, why? I request people who have been affected or had an experience to post. Others kindly excuse, A lot of hearsay goes on and this thread is to avoid it. We say Teambhpians stand by the TRUTH, why not out with it? So are we Biased? Cheers
	(1) Thanks

21st April 2009, 10:57	#2
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	I think it is a case of 'Do as I say, and not as I do'. The 'truth' and 'transparency' is only for others, and certain others are , er, more equal. Like they say, "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" I suspect this discussion as a whole will be closed/deleted. Last edited by greenhorn : 21st April 2009 at 11:00.
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 10:59	#3
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	I too have a feeling that is going to happen but hoping that it wont
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 11:07	#4
srijit BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 598 Thanked: 8 Times	iceman, the problem is that it will just turn into a shouting match. In the Skoda case, we had documented evidence that Skoda destroyed the customer's car. But in case of bad tooning experiences, it will just turn out to be a case of "he said, she said". Add to that the racket caused by supporters on both sides and you have got chaos. Unless there is concrete proof, documentation etc, both sides wont shut up. Just my opinion.
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 11:30	#5
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	And in many cases the problem is not exactly because of the tuner per se. What do we do about that? Maybe what we CAN do is narrate the experiences without pointing fingers ( or naming people ) . Let the forum decide who is right and who is wrong. What say?
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 11:31	#6
theMAG Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Avon, CT Posts: 7,217 Thanked: 1,807 Times View My Garage	The single biggest difference is interactions with tuners are most often on a personal, informal level while those with dealers are strictly at an official level since a dealer is expected to represent the company. Based on this presumption, outcomes of interactions with customers between tuners/dealerships vary, depending on maturity of people on both sides.
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 11:34	#7
gd1418 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,578 Thanked: 728 Times View My Garage	I'm watching this thread with interest, unless bumped off.
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 11:36	#8
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	Agree with you Harrie,Mahesh. My point being why are tuner stories where the customer can be at fault or the tuner or both being hushed up? Most of the times they are swept under the carpet I agree it is a can of worms that I have opened. It could also turn into a pandoras box. Last edited by iceman91 : 21st April 2009 at 11:37.
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 11:39	#11
suman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kolkata Posts: 4,589 Thanked: 279 Times View My Garage	Isn't there a huge difference between standard production car expectations (Dealership) & modified car expectations (Tuner)?
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 11:40	#12
hrag BANNED Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bangalore / Madras Posts: 1,982 Thanked: 31 Times	Personal interaction, friendship, "forum reputation" of both tuner and customer - all reasons for dark stories being pushed under grey carpets. Last edited by hrag : 21st April 2009 at 11:41.
	(1) Thanks

21st April 2009, 11:48	#14
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,815 Thanked: 305 Times View My Garage	I think there a certain amount of biasing and ignorance accounted for..whether is is tuner or a ICE tuner. A little of brainwashing is also done to convince the customer. But again all is fair in business and war.. Not targeting anyone here so please do not fire back at me...Mods if you think it is wrong you can edit or delete it.
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 12:02	#15
crazydiablo BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore/San Francisco Posts: 854 Thanked: 24 Times View My Garage	I have heard a lot of stories, I know the truth about most of them. Sometimes the tuner is at fault, sometimes the customer is at fault, most of the time its a misunderstanding. Its mostly to do with customer expectations and reliability. The main issue is that people who are modding for the first time dont know what to expect nor are they aware of what it takes to own a modded car. BUT what I cannot tolerate is blatant cheating. Taking money for what is not done, or taking money and doing a sub standard job or putting in reconditioned parts and charging for new parts. All this is purely unethical and give tuning as such a bad name. No wonder people stick to only FFEs and filters. Most people do not mind paying a little extra for a job well done, but what leaves a bad taste is being cheated. None can forgive especially since we love our rides more than millions on the road. I would also urge anybody who has had bad experiences to come out and post. But please refrain from personal insults. Just post what was expected, what got delivered and what was the failure.
	() Thanks