[indian21r]

congrats randhawa on breaking the 130 barrier.

I always have 20 psi front and 30 psi rear. This weekend will be spent at the workshop where I will get a new tank and mudgaurd to replace damaged parts. Further I hope Umesh can answer all my queries.
possibility of 19 inchers front and rear
Rear discs
stability at all speeds
tires for the rear all weather
swing arm issues
spark plugs

[JayPrashanth]

Sanjeet,

Congratulations on cracking the 130 barrier. I hope finally things are sorted out for you on the engine side. Make sure you don't keep it there for too long.

Indian21R,

Disc brake possible. For rear disc brake, fitting one on your stock/19 inch rims will require the drum to be modified to become a foundation plate. You can later mount the disc on this drum. This is the most effective way of doing things while retaining the stock/19inch rims. This has been done on a friends LB500 in Pune.

Nineteen inchers also possible.

All weather tires? What is wrong with the stock ones?

Spark plugs? Please elaborate.

Swing arm issues and stability issues: A fix is on the way from the Royal Enfield factory.

Cheers,

Jay

[Randhawa]

@gbanavar-Thanks man, but I am not sure if free flow would help with top speeds as I have tried with the upswept set up and it did not help much on the top side but approach to the top was improved.

@Rahul-I hope you get your answers from your guy and cure most of your problems. Good Luck.

@Jay- I dont want to end up opening the engine again so I am keeping a close watch on things. I topped for few seconds only. At least if this time things go wrong then I know what would be the cause and getting a new better quality crank pin bearing is only the way to go on UCE hence saving myself from getting a new crank to get the same issues again and again. Ron might help me with sourcing an upgrade for the bearing.

But I think I'll still end up upgrading the bearing and getting the crank balanced as mine is vibrating more then what it did with the first setup. I forgot to write about a small thing which I observed. The fuel light was blinking and there was enough fuel in the tank without hitting reserve. I am not sure why it happened.

[nasirkaka]

@ Randhawa:

Takes about a minute or two before the Decompression stops lifting the valve after 700RPM when the engine warms up and crosses the threshold. Idle is set to 1000-1050RPM.

When i start the bike early morning, along with all the usual engine and tappet noise, another, very clear and crisp noise comes for sometime. (something similar to hitting a piece of metal with a metal spoon.tap tap tang.). This noise is not constant and goes with slight throttle turn. This happens early morning or whenever the bike is been standing idle for 7-8 hours.

Is this noise related to the decompressor and valve lift. If yes, could u expand a bit on the same?

[Randhawa]

My answer is Yes and I'll try to explain as clearly as possible.
Here is a exploded view of the exhaust cam and the internals for the decompression act.




Technically the noise should stop at moment when the engine gets to 700RPM but usually in real world conditions it does not happen and we hear it for a bit extended period.

Green part in the picture is what makes the lift on compression stroke and its located just on the tip of the cam lobe.

Red part is the weight which sticks to the inside of the cam gear when the whole gear rotates with speed and retracting or turning the green pin to its flat side so to stop lifting the ex valve more then required.


Reasons for the noise for extended period as well as loss of power when engine is running.

1. If RPM is less then 700 when cold
2. Engine oil to thick and hampering the operation of the weight(red part)
3. Tension of the spring(yellow one in the picture)

What exactly creates that particular noise

When the auto-decomp is engaged(green pin) it lifts the hydraulic roller from the cam and when the roller hits the cam after passing the green pin, it's higher then its normal position on the cam. So it hits the cam with some lash which the hydraulic roller then adjust before every thing start all over again until crossing 700 RPM.


Generally all the problems related to auto de-comp is due to the spring's inaccurate tension(yellow part) or the pin(green part). This design is very simple and sweet but still has some flaws which needs to be ironed out.

[nasirkaka]

Thanks Randhawa,

Thats very clearly illustrated and nicely explained. (did u make that exploded view?? what do you do professionally? )

This design is very simple and sweet but still has some flaws which needs to be ironed out.

Why is this always the case with RE?? Will they ever be able to make a product like Honda Cub, in terms of sound engineering, design detailing and reliability??

[bradhey]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Thanks Randhawa,

Thats very clearly illustrated and nicely explained. (did u make that exploded view?? what do you do professionally? )



Why is this always the case with RE?? Will they ever be able to make a product like Honda Cub, in terms of sound engineering, design detailing and reliability??

I also welcome sound engineering, however this comparision is incorrect, a bullet is owned for it character and soul. A Royal Enfield owner can always revert by saying "why could Honda not put the soul of a motorcycle in its CB 750" ??

Remeber the documentary on Discovery "Worlds greatest ever" on motorcycles ?? the Honda CB 750 did not reach the top spot even though it was the motorcycle with flawless engineering, simply because its owner found it too boring and without a soul of a motorcycle.

[nasirkaka]

@ Bradhy:

The analogy was just on the Engineering front or rather the lack of it when it comes to Royal Enfield. I did not intend to compare characters of two motorcycles, Classic 500 & Honda Cub, which are very very different from each-other.

My point is as follows:

As we all know, the UCE is a very very MODERN engine.

Designed, developed and engineered in the times of CAD / CAM / CAE / Rapid prototyping / Fluid dynamics, various forms of Analysis and many many more advanced technological aids. In spite of all these available technology, there still seems to be loads of technical, dimensional, engineering and detailing flaws with the Classic 500. Some minor and some not so.To mention a few, the fork sleeve alignment and travel, the Auto de-comp spring tension, the air filter box design, the swing arm design, the oval box locking mechanism, the break paddle at cornering, the main stand angle, missing lembda, the plugs fouling, and many more..
People (including myself) are sticking tape on the air filter box to make it air tight as the RE engineers over looked some basic issues.

The world is working with tolerances in microns, and RE is not even able to maintain them in Millimeters???? Typical example is the front fork assemble w.r.t fork sleeve and mudguard. Common guys, lets make some noise so that future Royal Enfield Customers get better products for the Price they pay..

[Randhawa]

@Nasir- Na man, I got the picture off the internet. I am a IT professional and still a student

I don't know why RE can not get things right from the start although the UCE was designed and built oversees by professional R&D designers. Same is the case with the sprag clutch which keeps giving trouble and they have not worked out the way it can be saved from destruction. No problem in the working principle but due to the backfire on startup, the loads gets on the bearing of the sprag which kills it in due course. Now they are changing their supplier for sprag bearings.

Some info about their quality check and a proof

Two days ago I came to know about a owner of Electra UCE who was so close to file a case against RE. Basically within 300kms, his bike started spewing out oil from the exhaust. Now take a moment and think what can cause this on a brand new bike?

The answer is- Some clever git at the assembly line just forgot to put valve seal and presto the owner was an incarnation of Batman and spewing oil all over the unsuspecting people coming behind him. RE says they have four rounds of quality check before bike leaves the factory, now who wants to believe that hey

[Endofdayz]

Originally Posted by Randhawa

@Nasir- Na man, I got the picture off the internet. I am a IT professional and still a student

I don't know why RE can not get things right from the start although the UCE was designed and built oversees by professional R&D designers. Same is the case with the sprag clutch which keeps giving trouble and they have not worked out the way it can be saved from destruction. No problem in the working principle but due to the backfire on startup, the loads gets on the bearing of the sprag which kills it in due course. Now they are changing their supplier for sprag bearings.

Some info about their quality check and a proof

Two days ago I came to know about a owner of Electra UCE who was so close to file a case against RE. Basically within 300kms, his bike started spewing out oil from the exhaust. Now take a moment and think what can cause this on a brand new bike?

The answer is- Some clever git at the assembly line just forgot to put valve seal and presto the owner was an incarnation of Batman and spewing oil all over the unsuspecting people coming behind him. RE says they have four rounds of quality check before bike leaves the factory, now who wants to believe that hey

@Randhawa: yeah they are not kidding. I had given my bike for 2nd service day before yesterday and when i called to check the status, they guy who picked the phone explained. All the service formalities and complaints have been take care. Now the quality inspection is going on. So ideally it is not that it happens only in factory it happens after every service.

But the point to be noted is all the problems are still existing except nice wash my bike got.

[Randhawa]

Could you please share your ongoing saga about the issues you are having and may be we could share some info related to the issues and help each other out.

[nasirkaka]

BREAKING NEWS!!!!

This afternoon i took my bike (Classic 500, less then a month old), for a small ride. Got a feel that there is something wrong with bike's front. The handle was turning a bit too-much on either side, as if the bike wanted to break all the minimum turning radius records.
On close inspection and to my super shock, i found that the metal rod which is welded to the front of the main frame, and which acts as the stopper from turning the handle beyond the desired, is missing. Typically, the welded stopper rod can breaks in case of major accidents involving great load on the handle in turned position, ( happened to my machismo when i met with an accident). Can any one explain how and where it went in a new C5 without even coming close to an accident..

I am getting a feeling that RE purposely gave me a defected piece as before the delivery i made lots of noise for the delay and i guess it upset someone somewhere..

to exaggerate a bit, even feviquick would make stronger bong than RE's electric arc welding. i am very depressed now. :(

[Randhawa]

I am sorry to hear that Nasir. In all honesty I'll request you to take pictures of the missing thing and your welded pin on the stand and email it directly to RE and contact your Area service manager at the earliest. You can easily get your chassis changed rather then settling for a weld on your brand new bike with some lousy touch up work. Please post some pictures of the missing stopper.

[bradhey]

In my opinion, the real problem with this company is lack of "real world testing" and not listening to customer feedback. These two factors alone can bring great improvements in the quality of their product.

Many other things such as scuffing of fork sleeves, jammed oval box, poor paint work et al, are related more to poor workmanship rather than engineering. As for quality control, there is nothing that exists at Royal Enfield, by that name.

Plug fouling, sprang clutch issues, air filter design and flex in swing arm are all but bad and unthoughtful engineering.

And I am sorry to say this but RE has would have to hand craft every bike as if it was being made for Siddharth Lal and train all service centres as they train their US dealers, if they ever want to change their disintegrated image.

[nasirkaka]

THE NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES SO FAR

(There are positives too.. Shall share in some other post)

After a long wait, i got the delivery of my Classic 500 motorcycle on the 16th April, 2010.

AT THE TIME OF DELIVERY:
i was introduced to the basics of the motorcycle and was asked to take a small test ride. At that time i saw some liquid on top of the engine. the technician said that it must be the fresh petrol spilled while pouring in the tank. I went for a small test run and on return, there was more petrol all over the engine. After keen observation, we saw that petrol was leaking from under the tank, where the fuel sensor is inserted and fixed. The culprit was a damaged O ring. ( So much for Post Delivery Inspection)
I went directly to the service station and got the O ring replaced.

Other Issues noted at the Time of Delivery were:
* The front fork Sleeve had scrapped the aluminum rod, on both LH and RH side.
* There was damaged paint on the main frame.
* Paint had not reached certain corners and recesses on the frame
* Black acid spots on the buffed aluminium cover.
* Jammed Oval document box.

I point out all these issues to the service centre in-charge and was told that the paint and buffing issues would be taken care during the first free service.

AT THE TIME OF FIRST FREE SERVICE:
i had made a list of issues and told the same to the technician who was responsible for filling the service form. Some of the issues which i recollect are as follows:

* I reminded them of the promised touch-up job on the paint.
* reminded them that the LH side aluminium cover was to be re-buffed, as promised.
* the bike was majorly pulling towards the right side.
* the fuel sensor had conked off and the indicator kept glowing even on full tank.
* the side stand was jammed, and took Herculean effort to lift or put it down.
* the paint on the underside of the pillion seat was already rusted and bubbling up.
* there was oil leak from the crank rod.

After the service, when i went to collect the bike, i was told that the paint touch-up job was not done as they did not have the green colour touch-up paint can from the factory. The buffing was not done, and i was suggested that i could get it done outside. They said the handle w.r.t.wheel alignment was done, but i still feel it pulling towards right side.

So i came back not fully satisfied. After a few days of service, i received a call from the service centre inquiring about my service experience and how the vehicle was doing? As i was explaining them my issues, they did not even listen completely, said thankyou and cut the call midway. I wonder why do they call in the first place, if they do not have time to listen to customers problems/issues.
[FONT=&quot]All in all, i am very dis-satisfied with the quality of fit and finish of my classic 500, which is suppose to be RE's flagship model.
Now the Handle Stopper rod is broken and fallen-off. Next is what???

Below are some pictures to illustrate the condition.