[quick_silver]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

On a lighter note photo below of the BRDM-2 which is the world's most widely used armoured reconnaissance car - all up weight 7700 kgs; engine - 140 bhp only!!!! Top road speed ~90 kmph, amphibious water speed 10 kmph. Compare this with our SUVs today and their BHP and make your own call on what is an under powered car.

Sir, with all due respect, power isn't nearly as important as torque for a vehicle like that. If I am not wrong, BRDM-2 has an earth shattering torque of 700-800lb-ft.

[deb_majumdar]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Overall if I was in the market for a car in this segment today, diesel would be the i20 or the GT TDI, AT would be the GT TSI and for a petrol MT, maybe the Jazz (considering that the 1.2 in the i20 is also not a great performer)

Absolutely agree with the choices. May be for diesel, adding the Polo TDI Highline also in consideration besides i20 Asta CRDI and GT TDI.

[vebmetal]

Took a test drive of both cars (in the span of about 2 days), and don't mean to add to to friction that seems to be occurring on this thread, and I think both cars have certain advantages over the other, but on the whole the Jazz is disappointing especially since it's more expensive (i.e. the top variants).

I haven't gone through this thread with a fine tooth comb, but I think people have covered much of what I have to say. The only couple of things I would add (that others seem to not have covered):

• Comparing the audio systems, the i20 seems to be waaaay better. Firstly, the speaker quality of the Jazz is terrible, even for stock, considering it's supposed to be a "premium hatchback." Secondly the touchscreen HU is just terrible in the Jazz. In the age of OSes like Android etc. I fail to see why auto manufacturers still feel they need to shove proprietary nonsense down the consumers' throats. Their navigation system doesn't hold a candle to Google Maps, and honestly the vast majority of customers in this segment would already have a smartphone, so this is not a great 'plus' for most. The touch response was also quite unexciting, and to give a comparison, the el cheapo android tablets that they are retrofitting in Shatabdi trains for personal entertainment systems are more responsive! IMHO it would have been better if they had just left a double DIN slot open, and reduced the price a bit.
• I also got a chance to compare the reverse camera on both cars. The screen is slightly bigger in the Jazz (since the Jazz uses the touchscreen HU for this, and the i20 uses the rear view mirror). However, on two counts, I would say the i20's camera is much much better.
  (1) The i20's camera 'bent' the display lines according to how much I turned the steering wheel, giving a nice curve of my anticipated approach. I checked several times, and it was quite spot on. The Jazz's display lines did not curve, and seemed to just be static lines superimposed on the camera feed.
  (2) The Jazz's camera had a weird wide angle thing that totally distorted the depth perception of the feed. Consequently, while I felt I was at least 2 feet away from the gate behind, I was actually only 6-7 inches (which I only knew because the salesman started getting concerned very verbally!). This was not the case with the i20, which gave a more accurate rendition of the depth, which having audible sensors certainly helped as well.

Overall, I feel both manufacturer's have made a couple of bad decisions - skimping on air bags, underwhelming performance w.r.t. acceleration etc. which I feel are not befitting of the "premium hatchback" segment. That given, I feel the i20 was still more closer to "premium" than the Jazz, though I am admittedly no closer to making a purchase decision!!

[adimicra]

^^
@vebmetal, good observation.
I have said several times that Honda has messed up the variants.
The top trim VX is just a no-go. It's not only expensive, it loses features and it clumsily finished like after-market add-ons. Honda should have omitted the VX variant and simply provided the magic seats in V variant may be at a price increase of 10-15K which would have made it same as I20 Asta.
If someone is going for Jazz, it should be the SV or V variants.

Do check the reverse camera operation of the Jazz with a few City owners. I used it a couple of times and found it good. My close friend and a City owner can park his car pretty close to the wall (6 inches) just by looking at the reverse camera display.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by vebmetal

Overall, I feel both manufacturer's have made a couple of bad decisions - skimping on air bags, underwhelming performance w.r.t. acceleration etc. which I feel are not befitting of the "premium hatchback" segment. That given, I feel the i20 was still more closer to "premium" than the Jazz, though I am admittedly no closer to making a purchase decision!!

True. When we bought the City in 2010, every variant had atleast two airbags and ABS as standard. With the subsequent versions, Honda started skimping on these features with barebone variants. I remember making a note in my ownership thread how it was admirable on Honda's part to include two airbags and ABS as standard in the City. Just imagine how incredibly stupid it is, in today's age, for a manufacturer to start cutting down on safety features!

I may be incorrect but I guess Hyundai started this trend of having the wonderful (O) packages. They'll have a dozen variants and an (O) variant with each of those, that has safety features. This essentially gives a buyer every reason to skip safety features. I have a 2013 i20 Sportz and one of the very few things I hate about it are the fact that even this variant has only one airbag.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by vebmetal

Overall, I feel both manufacturer's have made a couple of bad decisions - skimping on air bags:

Originally Posted by libranof1987

True. When we bought the City in 2010, every variant had atleast two airbags and ABS as standard. With the subsequent versions, Honda started skimping on these features with barebone variants. I remember making a note in my ownership thread how it was admirable on Honda's part to include two airbags and ABS as standard in the City. Just imagine how incredibly stupid it is, in today's age, for a manufacturer to start cutting down on safety features!
.

Very important point. I was also disappointed to see Honda go a little back wards with respect to safety features in lower variants especially in the premium cars- First with the City and then with the Jazz. Hyundai had already typically been backward in this aspect.

And this is happening at a time when other manufacturers are paying more importance to safety. VW and Toyota have airbags as standard across their range of products. Ford has airbags as standard in their to be launched aspire. Even Suzuki is offering a passenger airbag in the base version of the to be launched S Cross ( something they were not known for doing).

Of course one can argue that the cuts are in the lower variants which anyway are mainly for projecting a lower starting price and not expected to sell much. Still, the intent and impression conveyed with respect to safety is also important.

[ToyotaFan]

I am posting this query regarding the Bluetooth telephony quality and functionality of the ICE of the jazz S variant. The dealership did not have a car to show me but said its the same as in the Honda city S variant. I wanted to enquire if music streaming is possible through the system and whether the call quality is acceptable since the mic is placed on the dash itself. It would be great of people who have experienced the jazz S variant or City S or SV variant can help me out. S variant is below 6L in Delhi and there is a hefty tax saving due to that.

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

S variant is below 6L in Delhi and there is a hefty tax saving due to that.

What is the difference between tax treatment of car below vs above 6L?

[ak1990]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

What is the difference between tax treatment of car below vs above 6L?

Different rates of road tax depending on the price of the car - here is an indicator for Delhi:

Price Upto Rs. 6 Lac - Petrol Cars - 4%, Diesel Cars - 5%
Price between 6 Lac - 10 Lac - Petrol Cars - 7%, Diesel Cars - 8.75%
Price > Rs. 10 Lac as Exshowroom Cost - Petrol Cars - 10%, Diesel Cars - 12.5%

[Crazy_Bean]

Originally Posted by ak1990

Different rates of road tax depending on the price of the car - here is an indicator for Delhi:

Price Upto Rs. 6 Lac - Petrol Cars - 4%, Diesel Cars - 5%
Price between 6 Lac - 10 Lac - Petrol Cars - 7%, Diesel Cars - 8.75%
Price > Rs. 10 Lac as Exshowroom Cost - Petrol Cars - 10%, Diesel Cars - 12.5%

I believe you are quoting Delhi Road taxes, In Delhi Diesel cars command 25% additional tax compared to Petrol hence the difference. (eg. Petrol 10% and Diesel 12.5%).

Petrol and Diesel rates are slightly lower and Same for both fuel types in Haryana. I.e. its cheaper to register cars in Gurgaon than Delhi.

[ToyotaFan]

Originally Posted by ak1990

Different rates of road tax depending on the price of the car - here is an indicator for Delhi:

Price Upto Rs. 6 Lac - Petrol Cars - 4%, Diesel Cars - 5%
Price between 6 Lac - 10 Lac - Petrol Cars - 7%, Diesel Cars - 8.75%
Price > Rs. 10 Lac as Exshowroom Cost - Petrol Cars - 10%, Diesel Cars - 12.5%

You are spot on with the rates. There is an additional parking charge also in addition to this in Delhi I suppose. There was a difference of 20,000 between S and SV in terms of registration charges. Delhi seems to be doing all that's possible to discourage use of diesel cars. Differential tax along with ban on cars older than 10years with the deregulation of diesel prices. Considering the advanced diesel engines with high fe and lower emissions why are they giving such step motherly treatment to diesels is beyond my understanding

[kcecpl]

Went to book a Jazz V CVT and took a short Test drive on the manual V as the CVT was not available for a test drive. Liked the fit and finish and it had lots of space. monthly driving is around 800-1000 km within the city and thus the Jazz fits the bill. One issue that is bothering me is the that there is no engine guard nor any under body guard. The review clearly states that the sump is exposed and a wayward stone could lead to expensive repairs. Was this the case in the earlier Jazz also? Any comments . Also does the jazz also need servicing every 3 months like the city. Over a five year period this will increase the cost quite a bit and it may be better to go for the ciaz AT which is around Rs.2 lakhs more expensive in mumbai

[Aaron:)]

Originally Posted by kcecpl

Went to book a Jazz V CVT and took a short Test drive on the manual V as the CVT was not available for a test drive. Liked the fit and finish and it had lots of space. monthly driving is around 800-1000 km within the city and thus the Jazz fits the bill. One issue that is bothering me is the that there is no engine guard nor any under body guard. The review clearly states that the sump is exposed and a wayward stone could lead to expensive repairs. Was this the case in the earlier Jazz also? Any comments . Also does the jazz also need servicing every 3 months like the city. Over a five year period this will increase the cost quite a bit and it may be better to go for the ciaz AT which is around Rs.2 lakhs more expensive in mumbai

Yes the lack of an under body guard is a problem. Three years ago, a huge rock broke my City's oil sump. But it was really my fault since I didn't have a look at the road despite driving a car with such low GC. But the Jazz should be better.

As far as servicing every 3 months goes, that's nonsense. I take my City to the service station annually.
IMO go for the Jazz, you won't regret it. Go for the Ciaz only if you need the extra boot space and can extend your budget.

[SneakyFunk]

I pre booked the Jazz V CVT and even today the dealer here in Pune is not committing to a delivery date. Infact they do not have the CVT for test drive yet and says there is no official communication from Honda on this.

Is it only me that's in the dark or its the same story in other places too?

[jeet8686]

Originally Posted by SneakyFunk

I pre booked the Jazz V CVT and even today the dealer here in Pune is not committing to a delivery date. Infact they do not have the CVT for test drive yet and says there is no official communication from Honda on this.

Is it only me that's in the dark or its the same story in other places too?

I too have booked a SV MT Petrol at Crystal Honda, Bavdhan, Pune and there too no delivery date has been commited. As per them there is a waiting on this model and color(Golden Brown Metallic) and will take 1-2 months for delivery.

I believe they have an S CVT variant availale for test drive. If you want you may get a test ride there.