[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Sree73

Utility vehicles under Maruti sells 22608 units in May 2017. ~2K units over April 2017.

Seems the S-Cross cross the 3K units this month

S Cross: 2249
Ertiga: 7121
Vitara Brezza: 12375
Gypsy: 863

Source: http://www.autopunditz.com/

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I just found these power torque graphs of DDIS 320 and DDIS 200 from Maruti Suzuki. It gives an idea about power delivery.

The peak torque is not held for longer in DDIS 320.

Yeah, exactly how it felt like when I drove the 1.6. It was so binary, either fully on or fully off. Not much fun to live with on a daily basis unless you make a living on the highways.

I so wish Suzuki had reduced the peak figures and made the curve more flat. It will look less impressive on the spec sheet but would have made the car more usable and comfortable for the passengers.

Like the amazing 1.6 CRDi from Hyundai, the torque curve is brilliant and it shows when you drive it - relentless linear power delivery available every time you need it. My fantasy bad-roader in the 15 lakhs segment is a S-Cross with the Hyundai 1.6 CRDi and ALLGRIP.

[bhpfaninblr]

To Deet's point, here is the Torque/BHP curve of Hyundai 1.6 CRDI
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/cu...rive_7dct.html

Here is the torque/bhp curve of the Fiat 1.6 Multijet
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/cu...i_16v_120.html

Comparison in table form below:

As you see, eventhough the curve of the 1.6 CRDI looks flat in the graph, The fiat Multijet compares well against it with slightly higher torque at low rpm and comparable across the curve. So definitely the 1.6 multijet is doing better on torque across power bands than the Hyundai

The 1.6 Multijet of Fiat/DDiS 320 is besting 1.6 CRDI on torque driveability. Do not agree with Deetjohn. See the table of torque comparison attached. S-cross engine is a winner here

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Yeah, exactly how it felt like when I drove the 1.6. It was so binary, either fully on or fully off. Not much fun to live with on a daily basis unless you make a living on the highways.

The peak torque of 320nm is not held long. But it remains above 275 nm and bests the competitor Hyundai 1.6 CRDI across. See my table below

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I

The peak torque is not held for longer in DDIS 320. Yes, there is 120 NM more peak torque.. But it would have been lot more fun if this was held for longer

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

To Deet's point, here is the Torque/BHP curve of Hyundai 1.6 CRDI

The graphs on this site are not very authentic. This is what they say :

The Horsepower / Torque Curve below was generated by the ProfessCars™ software, based on the factory data:

The graph which I have posted is published by Maruti Suzuki. I believe it's engine dyno graph and not chassis dyno.

[bhpfaninblr]

These are not going to be way off. If we compare these graphs to what was shared from Maruti, they are similar.

The key thing to note is graphs can look different based on the scales. The right thing to do is to look at rpm 1000-3500 only and have the scale starting from 0 to 320nm on the Y-axis. The table I shared clearly shows that while DDiS 320 does not retain the max torque, it has higher torque than the 1.6 Hyundai CRDI at all usable rpm levels. Attaching the table again for reference

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

The graphs on this site are not very authentic. This is what they say :

The Horsepower / Torque Curve below was generated by the ProfessCars™ software, based on the factory data:

The graph which I have posted is published by Maruti Suzuki. I believe it's engine dyno graph and not chassis dyno.

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

These are not going to be way off. If we compare these graphs to what was shared from Maruti, they are similar.

The key thing to note is graphs can look different based on the scales. The right thing to do is to look at rpm 1000-3500 only and have the scale starting from 0 to 320nm on the Y-axis. The table I shared clearly shows that while DDiS 320 does not retain the max torque, it has higher torque than the 1.6 Hyundai CRDI at all usable rpm levels. Attaching the table again for reference

Which Hyundai 1.6 CRDI in India has a spec of 300Nm torque ?
Am I missing something

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

The table I shared clearly shows that while DDiS 320 does not retain the max torque, it has higher torque than the 1.6 Hyundai CRDI at all usable rpm levels. Attaching the table again for reference

It's not just about the numbers. Yes, 1.6 MJD will have more torque than 1.6 CRDI at any given RPM band. But, a flatter torque curve helps in better driveability.

Originally Posted by kpzen

Which Hyundai 1.6 CRDI in India has a spec of 300Nm torque ?
Am I missing something

The figures mentioned in that graph are for 1.6 CRDI Hyundai engine in Europe. We get slightly detuned version

[sinharishi]

Completed 28,000 kms yesterday. Was driving around Noida early morning today with 3 of us in the car, since we all were engaged in a some discussion I switched off the music system. The DDiS 200 is LOUD! (Yes, I realised it today after driving for 28,000 Kms ), the engine clatter is always audible and gets irritating after some time. Had to switch on the music system to mask the engine noise.

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

As you see, eventhough the curve of the 1.6 CRDI looks flat in the graph, The fiat Multijet compares well against it with slightly higher torque at low rpm and comparable across the curve. So definitely the 1.6 multijet is doing better on torque across power bands than the Hyundai

The 1.6 Multijet of Fiat/DDiS 320 is besting 1.6 CRDI on torque driveability. Do not agree with Deetjohn. See the table of torque comparison attached. S-cross engine is a winner here

Engine' torque curve is just one parameter, its not the whole story. The gearing also plays a big role. So does the vehicle speed at any given time, load on the engine etc.

You wont be able to hit the max torque that shows up on the dyno for a given rpm on the road always.

An engine with a flatter torque curve will be more giving or flexible with the response. For an engine like the 1.6 MJD, one will have a very narrow window. You get that right and nothing will come close in terms of engine performance. But its a narrow window and that can drive you nuts at times.

Drive the Creta and S-Cross in changing conditions, the difference in character of the drive train is very much apparent.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Drive the Creta and S-Cross in changing conditions, the difference in character of the drive train is very much apparent.

True that. I have driven both the cars back to back. 1.6 S-Cross was more fun and a better driver's car. But, Creta was just effortless to drive. There was not much lag and felt easy inside city. Maruti has given us an explosive Fiat engine, but a flatter torque curve would have been brilliant. I am not sure if I could make it possible with remap. Most of the stock vs remap dyno graphs which I have seen, the torque - power graph shape has not been changed much. Anyways, I will try working it out with my tuner

[ankan.m.blr]

Originally Posted by sinharishi

Completed 28,000 kms yesterday. Was driving around Noida early morning today with 3 of us in the car, since we all were engaged in a some discussion I switched off the music system. The DDiS 200 is LOUD! (Yes, I realised it today after driving for 28,000 Kms ), the engine clatter is always audible and gets irritating after some time. Had to switch on the music system to mask the engine noise.

True that! SCross DDiS 200 is really loud; I feel it sounds even harsher & noisier than Amaze iDtec. But when I sit inside an Ertiga or Brezza having the same DDiS 200 engine, the diesel clatter, especially during (cold)start, seems less. Is it due to the presence of SHVS system or better insulation?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by ankan.m.blr

True that! SCross DDiS 200 is really loud; I feel it sounds even harsher & noisier than Amaze iDtec.

I do not agree. Amaze IDTEC is very crude. S-Cross DDIS 200 is more silent than IDTEC and even VAG TDI.

During TD of 1.3 and 1.6 S-Cross, I had observed that engine noise inside cabin was lesser in 1.3

[govigov]

found this amazing video. Watch from the 1:40 ish mark for some awesome footage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCFEehNFvfs

[BoneCollector]

Originally Posted by ankan.m.blr

But when I sit inside an Ertiga or Brezza having the same DDiS 200 engine, the diesel clatter, especially during (cold)start, seems less. Is it due to the presence of SHVS system or better insulation?

Originally Posted by sinharishi

The DDiS 200 is LOUD! (Yes, I realised it today after driving for 28,000 Kms ), the engine clatter is always audible and gets irritating after some time. Had to switch on the music system to mask the engine noise.

The Diesel clatter is obvious but more audible if you are coming in from a Petrol car. Yes, it is always audible but becomes harsher/ louder if you cross into triple digit speeds. On smooth roads, at 80kmph, the road noise plus engine noise is not much of a botheration and if music is on, you'll not notice it. This I'm talking about Brezza with Apollo Alnac 4Gs but with much less running. Reason for lesser noise could be multiple factors. S-Cross 1.6 indeed has more noise than 1.3 .

[Sree73]

Taking rest @courtyard after a Monsoon run to Thrissur - Kerala yesterday.

Mileage - 35000 KMs, FE on this trip - 24KM/L, still running on stock JK Elanzo.
Not much of a cabin noise if run with AC on / slight music.