[SPARKled]

Lovely review. Easily the best I have seen of the Innova Crysta.

I have decided on the GX AT and I love the fact that it does not come with any ICE. ABS EBD plus airbags is what I need in my car. Rest is not a must have and I prefer the higher profile tyres of the GX which are a lot more practical in our conditions. Not only are they cheaper but also makes the ride a lot more comfy. ICE will be taken care by Bass & Trouble and I guess for about a Lakh or so Rupees I can get a beautiful ICE system and I am set. Leather I believe is just not practical in hot humid Bombay and its again a blessing in disguise.

So for sure I am booking a GX AT.

[Sankar]

@Parsh, this is what i could find on the GD-FTV series engines. Looks like they do have some new tech in these engines.

1) Next-generation advanced thermal insulation diesel combustion

Thanks to the world-first use of Thermo Swing Wall Insulation Technology and the use of silica-reinforced porous anodized aluminum (SiRPA) on the pistons, cooling loss during combustion is reduced by approximately 30 percent. SiRPA is a high insulation and dissipation material that is easy to heat and easy to cool.


A port shape more conducive to air intake drastically increases the amount of air flow into the cylinders. Additionally, a newly developed piston combustion chamber shape and a common-rail fuel injection system that achieves higher pressure and more advanced control of fuel injection pressure are used to optimize the injection of fuel into the combustion chamber. This maximizes air consumption, enabling high thermal efficiency and low emissions.


Precise pilot injection matching the state of the ambient air occurs before the main injection to shorten ignition delay, achieving stable combustion even in the world's harshest environments, while ensuring quiet operation and high thermal efficiency.

2) Compact high-efficiency variable geometry turbocharger (produced in-house by Toyota)

The new turbocharger used by the GD engines is 30 percent smaller than its current equivalent, and features a newly developed turbine that improves efficiency, and a newly developed impeller that provides instantaneous acceleration response and produces maximum torque over a wide range of RPM.

3) Toyota-first urea selective catalyst reduction (SCR) system

Use of Toyota's proprietary, compact, high-dispersion urea selective catalyst reduction system eliminates up to 99 percent of emissions of NOx (nitrogen oxide), one of the main causes of air pollution. This will help vehicles conform to Euro 6 and the 2010 emissions standards set by Japan's Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport.
The current globally deployed KD engines will be gradually phased out and replaced with GD engines. By 2016, production will reach approximately 700,000 units a year with introduction in approximately 90 markets, set to expand to at least 150 markets by 2020.


Toyota will continue to position diesel engines as a key component of the Toyota engine lineup, based on the philosophy of providing the right vehicles for the right places at the right time. The entire Toyota group, including Toyota Industries Corporation, will combine its energies to develop cleaner and more competitive diesel engines across a wide-range of vehicle types, taking into account the varying needs of people around the world.

No 3 in the above quote is not available in India as on date. I guess with the urea injection added this engine will meet the Bharat6 norms when it comes out.

Ref: http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/8348091

More info regarding the GD engine available here http://toyota-club.net/files/faq/15-...engine_eng.htm

Some snippets from the link above:

Top versions (for Prado) have balance shafts driven by chain from crankshaft. Unlike KD, balancers located in a separate case under block. Versions for HiLux have not balancers (remark for .au - according to Toyota EPC there is not the balancer in Fortuner's GD, hereafter by "Hilux family" we mean Hilux-Fortuner-Innova series).

Possibly why the engine feels gruff. No balancers. And there is a difference how the balancers mount compared to previous gen.

GD engine uses turbocharger with variable nozzle (VGT or VNT) of 2nd generation (electric actuator). Advantages - the maintenance of optimum boost pressure over a wide rev range, lowering back pressure at high speed, increased output at low speeds, no need for the bypass. Turbocharger has water cooling.

This could be a first in India, if present on the Innova. Normally diesels come without watercooled turbos. I need to check this in mine if possible.

The pneumatically driving flaps with are installed in the intake manifold to close one of the inlet ports, what forming intensive vortex in the cylinder and improve the combustion process.

Like modern diesel mills like the BMW's.

[miharbe]

Excellent Review GTO and Rehaan! Feels good to own the car before the review and also reaffirms that my choice is indeed a good one!

I feel Toyota has priced it OK for the base variants and at a significant premium for the top end one. There is a 6 lacs spread between the base GX AT and the top ZX AT which is almost like buying a small hatch for that money. Other big dampener is the last of an 8 seater in the top end variant.

I'd posted this on the Scoop thread back in 2014 just when I'd bought the last gen Innova!

As a current owner and someone who has just bought one here is my wish list from the next generation Innova (Probably most this has been covered before):

• Automatic Transmission (I don't care if it 4 speed 5 speed or any other speed it should just be an autobox)
• 4 Airbags minimum but I am ready to compromise with 2. 6 would be ideal
• More power from this engine. Somewhere in the range of 140 bhp with 300nm of torque would be nice
• They should change the antenna from the ancient one currently to probably the printed one form the Fortuner or at least a sharkfin type found in more modern cars
• Better NVH however i can live with the current levels
• Safety options like ABS to be standard across the board
• Speakers for people in the last row

I am ready to pay ~20 lacs for the fully loaded 8 seater model if i get all this!

What will compel me to change immediately will be if an automatic is launched and I may just be the first one to run to the Toyota showroom with a cheque in my hand. I might just buy it even if a petrol automatic is launched!

Come on Toyota are you listening?!

Seems Toyota was listening and they did address almost all my requests. Hence I kept my word and jumped at it without a test drive or a look at the vehicle in flesh. It's just the trust that some of us have in the Innova!

Haven't regretted the decision one bit till date despite some of the smaller issues I have personally faced though I sometimes do think we are more forgiving towards Toyota than we are towards other brands especially Germans. That being said my old Innova had no issues whereas the current one seems to have a few. Hope these are an aberration and the future is a peaceful one.

Just one point I'd like to make is on the stability in cross winds. I was on the Mumbai-Pune Expressway and I could feel the car get affected by cross winds at higher speeds. Nothing alarming but i wouldn't expect such a heavy beast to behave like this. Nevertheless I'd very rarely do such speeds so not much of an issue. On the topic of speeds I love looking at the RPM meter and the corresponding speed especially when we're around the 2000 RPM. The earlier one sounded terribly strained whereas this one is barely audible at speeds around 100kmph. Power mode especially with tiptronic is damn addictive and reminds me of my Vento days! Hopefully will pen down an ownership log soon.

Happy with the fuel economy. Where the previous one gave single digit mileage this one is giving 13.xx on the highway and should get better once the engine has run in a little.

For now family and everyone is happy. Have bought the AT primarily for dad (and I am also lazy) so as long as he's happy it's money well spent

Only sore point which dad mentioned yesterday was that the black interiors are a pain to maintain. The fabric seats on the old one were of a shade which didn't show dust or stains easily and also the beige in the cabin really felt nice. Guess will have to live with this for next 10-15 yrs.

Originally Posted by sridhu

Advice to Toyota

Toyota needs to communicate with customers better.

- If Toyota introduces a 8STR Zx or an Automatic Vx in the next 3 months, I will be super upset!
- If they do, & they (or the dealer) give Zx 7 seater buyers the option to put in the 8 seater at a differential cost, it might still be acceptable.

Basically, they need to ensure that my 20+ lakh investment / expenditure gets me what I need.
- They seriously need to introduce an automatic Vx
- Also a 2.8 Ltr MT with 6 speed manual.

I'd have picked the VX has it come with AT. The GX feels like they're stealing from your pockets! First thing wife and sister commented was the lack of height adjust. That coupled with the centre console and headlights are really sore sights to see. Even if ZX AT had an 8 seater I don't know if I would have had the heart to pay so much for it and at that price point I'd probably have given a long hard look at the Endeavour as well.

I think having the 2.8 only on the AT is a good way of differentiating the variants so I like it that the 2.8 is exclusive to the AT.

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks for the correction! Didn't see it in the brochure, but since so many BHPians insist that black exists, I'm removing that point from the review.

I still don't think there is a black one on sale! It wasn't available with my dealer at least and isn't listed anywhere as well.

Originally Posted by GTO

Nandi has lost it. Should cost less than half of that.

I was quoted 71k for the insurance so 80k is ok I guess. However one can get a discount from the showroom itself and outside insurance will probably much much cheaper. I went with the showroom insurance in the quest for early delivery

[thatfastdude19]

When will car manufacturers in India stop exploiting their consumers. I bet that Toyota is probably earning a nice premium on such steep price for the Innova. The Innova needs a new VFM rival to produce the same effect that the Vitara Brezza produced on the Ecosport. Other than the price the vehicle is great!!!! Also a great review....

[kisharchit]

The old Innova started feeling spartan. Old. Tired. And it was expensive. In fact horribly overpriced for the hardware and design that was available. Now though, whole new story it has become. The Innova, although still very expensive, is at least desirable now. Now if I were to buy the Crysta, I would atleast see where the money has gone with the luxuries on offer.

In fact not just as an MPV, but as a whole vehicle, the Crysta is much more desirable and attractive. I quite like it a lot!

Great review GTO and Rehaan!

[parsh]

Originally Posted by Sankar

@Parsh, this is what i could find on the GD-FTV series engines. Looks like they do have some new tech in these engines.

Thanks Sankar for pointing these details. Yes I know these. Thanks for digging through

Foremost, I am certainly not a hardcore automech knowledgeable person, but do like to dig into stuff for knowledge and impart any if I can.

They are bound to have quite a few new things enhanced on that old renewed engine for sure. And ofcourse, it must have taken them quite a lot of efforts, many years, to put this out as well.

The thought put in 'All New Engine?' was to trigger some basic fundamental facts understanding and that this must be the same old exiting engine revamped with the new techs, way long available right with Toyota and possible when people were expecting such a revamp in earlier versions.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

But my next and first AT would be XUV500.

Would be a tough choice between the Innova AT & XUV500 AT, but I'd also go for the XUV500 W10 AWD (even AT AWD is cheaper than the Innova). Love the XUV500 facelift's mature face & Mahindra has been proactive in ironing out niggles over the years.

Originally Posted by baskar

reason for scoop out in B-pillar etc.

Credit goes to Surya from Toyota for showing it to me.

Originally Posted by Voyager-1

He said that it comes with auto levelling too, based on speed.

Bi-xenon / LED headlamps are self-levelling.

Originally Posted by Axe77

How would you comment on an AT purchase decision between the innova and the endy.

In terms of functionality & luxury, there's hardly a difference between the two. The Innova Crysta ZX AT does nearly everything that luxury SUVs do. Points in favour of the Endeavour:

- Styling
- Stunning 3.2L diesel
- Offroadability
- Light steering in the city (Innova is damn heavy)
- Equipment (sunroof, 10 speaker ICE, powered tail-gate etc.)

End of the day, it's a head vs heart decision. There's no doubt though that the Innova ZX AT gives you a lot of bang for the buck if you compare it to the 30 - 40 lakh SUVs.

Originally Posted by printh

Rear drum is not a deal breaker if the braking is good as even Fortuner, Elantra gets drum.

Nope, Elantra gets rear discs:

Originally Posted by su_spatil

does it not make sense to buy the GX variant and deck it up with aftermarket stuff.

I believe that, if you can afford it, you should always buy the top variant.

The ZX gives you side airbags which could save your skull. There's VSC / ESP which could save your life. The ZX's interiors are luxurious, while the GX is utilitarian.

Other stuff that you won't get in the aftermarket: LED headlamps, climate control, full-feature MID, height-adjustable driver's seat, keyless entry & go, electrically folding mirrors etc.

Originally Posted by sridhu

The most frustrating thing about this was that every single variant had a significant negative that prevented you from picking it

Well said!

My mum, 83, decided she wanted to sit in the car. Came out, sat in the car and declared "What non sense? We need a bench seat. I want to stretch my leg out when we travel".

Didn't understand this. The legroom is the same between the two variants, so why couldn't your Mom stretch her legs in the captain seat variant?

Unless you meant sleeping sideways on the seat which is a big, big no no. It's dangerous...don't ever let her do that.

Originally Posted by geotracks

The one question that I get from many though is, with the NGT ban situation in the NCR area and with the possibility of it likely to spread to other Indian cities, how would the resale value of the Innova Crysta be affected?

As I've stated before on other threads, I don't think 10+ year old cars are going anywhere in our country. We have a low penetration level of merely 30 - 40 cars / 1000 citizens (compared to 800 / 1000 in developed countries). Worst case, even if a city does ban 10 year old diesels, you can sell it out of town. Such a ban will be the exception rather than the rule.

Originally Posted by shibujp

Being a Toyota though the car is gonna shrink the minute you are in the driver's seat.

The heavy steering at low speeds ensures this isn't the case. It does feel like a big UV.

How do they manage to do this? Can whatever underbody attachment they use to reduce the ground clearance be removed?

Could be any unimportant part, like Mahindra did with the XUV500.

Originally Posted by parsh

Checked the chassis layout and components, and even if not in complete ditto, majority of layout and components seem ditto, direct lift and direct fit, be it overall chassis, cross-members, suspension setup. This surely does not look like an All New IMV platform but simply a reworked one that too on a very minimalistic levels.

It is 100% the same platform as the old Innova. Reworked & improved of course.

it clearly comes out as the same engine retuned and rebadged.

Even sounds the same!

Originally Posted by SPARKled

Leather I believe is just not practical in hot humid Bombay and its again a blessing in disguise.

I face no problems with leather in hot Mumbai. Love high quality leather seats.

Originally Posted by miharbe

I was quoted 71k for the insurance so 80k is ok I guess.

I'm seeing online quotes for 30 - 40k.

[avdhesh15]

Brilliant review! GTO - you just set the bar higher every single time!!!

Coming to the car, it seems like a brilliant car but I am only a bit taken aback with the pricing. Toyota is minting money of this car and I believe Maruti / Hyundai and loosing out big time by not putting up a proper contender. I also believe that competition, rather lack of it, allows Toyota to price the Innova at a massive premium and will be rectified once one of the big boys shows up (I am not considering Hexa here).

Also, although against Toyota's philosophy, they should have continued the old Innova at a lesser price targeting the cabbies. And the service interval is stupid... in fact more stupid than Honda's 10k/6m. Seriously - 5k for the national highway car?

[octane_100]

No need to repeat that this is a fantabulous review!!

Even though having owned 2 Innovas over the last 6 years, I was never happy with the car for it felt lacking in so many departments. But, the Crysta is a major improvement and ticks almost all the boxes for a premium MPV buyer. For me, the seats for one are a major improvement providing more under thigh support.

However, I have been waiting to book the 2.4 Z since the time of launch but the local dealer's response has been extremely cold. Here I am waiting to book the car with cash in hand, but they refuse to get a 2.4 Crysta for TD. All they have is a solitary 2.8 Z AT and they expect me to book the car just by driving that.

I don't want to give in and I'm sticking to my stand (of needing a TD vehicle before booking), let me see if I can be patient enough

[ajayclicks]

Originally Posted by miharbe

I was quoted 71k for the insurance so 80k is ok I guess. However one can get a discount from the showroom itself and outside insurance will probably much much cheaper. I went with the showroom insurance in the quest for early delivery

Did you negotiate with them? When I purchased my XUV500 (OTR: ~19 lacs) this March, all dealers in Bangalore were quoting ~70K for insurance (zero depreciation) and were magnanimously offering a discount of 20%. I showed them competing quotes from policy bazaar ( in the range of 35k- 40K), listened very politely to their drill of "outside insurance= apocalypse", waved my chequebook, negotiated and settled at 40K, with zero depreciation.

Ofcourse, it also depends on how many dealers does Nandi have to compete with, and how keen he is, not to lose your sale.

[peterjim13]

As always !! Excellent and in detail review.

Actually right on time as I had taken a test drive of the 2.8L AT last friday and had wondered why a Tbhp review on the same car took longer to come out.

The Crysta does everything cosmetically to hide its family face. I think most of the time, it does not feel like an Innova, the cabin and the steering wheel area looks more European or say from a Luxury car than a premium MUV. The Black + Wood + Silver finished interior is brilliant. The brown leather seats makes us wonder which manufacturer it is.

Innova always needed a 6th gear for the highway rides and luckily the AMT has a 6 speed in it. The instrument console is also top class, especially the display between the dials. I think the one in the Audi A6 looks the same.

The comments section mostly covered all praises, so I thought I should look into a few things which I didn't feel nice.

1. As the vehicle moves on, the heavy steering starts to show its muscle. It felt heaver than the older model.

2. 2.8L and 178bhp didn't feel that powerful. I think the first two gears does not add much to the speedometer. (I have not driven many AMT's I had recently tried the Renault Duster AMT which felt better) But must admit that the engine starts pulling post the 3rd gear.

3. The instrument console was pretty new to me. Reminded me of some offroaders, but the combination of White Stalks and White Needles, took me some time to read where the needle was. The Needles should have been in a different colour.

4. On patchy roads, the wheels over patches was evident on the second row. I think the suspension has no improvement over the older model. To compare the finest I have seen was the Duster (old) on patches where you barely realise the, while you can count ever broken rock/gravel or patch on an Ecosport. So this was to an extend par with XUV5OO (for me.. )

5. On huge speed bumps, the ladder on frame wobbles like the Scorpio. I felt it more than that of the older Innova. Thanks to the wonderful seats, with seat belts on, you might still find it comfortable.

And of course, for the love of Chrome - Nippon Toyota has made the Test Drive car to something like "never try this" with its chrome over load. The 2.8L will cost around 26.5L on road in Kerala.

All the above will surely not affect the sales of the car. Simply because they are sold for their reliability, cost of ownership and of course, almost all of them are chauffeur driven.

[miharbe]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

Innova always needed a 6th gear for the highway rides and luckily the AMT has a 6 speed in it.

2. 2.8L and 178bhp didn't feel that powerful. I think the first two gears does not add much to the speedometer. (I have not driven many AMT's I had recently tried the Renault Duster AMT which felt better) But must admit that the engine starts pulling post the 3rd gear.

The Innova Crysta doesn't come with an AMT. It comes with a 6 speed torque converter. I haven't driven the Duster but I'm intrigued how an AMT can feel better than a Torque Converter.

[peterjim13]

Originally Posted by miharbe

The Innova Crysta doesn't come with an AMT. It comes with a 6 speed torque converter. I haven't driven the Duster but I'm intrigued how an AMT can feel better than a Torque Converter.

Wow. Thats an eye opener.

I am not regular on automatic transmissions, but I have driven a few, not for long though.
Generally, I have felt that AT/AMT should do well on urban areas than highways.

I found it easy to drive the Duster on the same roads I took the Innova, I specifically put them on same test to understand the ease of driving. (Luckily in Cochin, we have Renault, Nissan, VW, Toyota next to each other, using the same roads for test drives)

The gear shift was evident on each cars, and Innova lacked power at times and took more effort in tailing slower traffic. May be that is attributed to the size or my driving style, if the gearshift is on torque on the innova.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[vinayrathore]

What a fantastic review! Rated well deserved 5 Stars!!

Now this is the complete package that India was waiting for, for the past decade or so.

Originally Posted by GTO

At 6 & 7 however, things get loud, but the noise isn't from these air vents; it's from somewhere behind!! We went looking for it. Turns out, the rear air-con's condenser is placed to the right of the 3rd row seat (behind the side panel). Now, the air-con blows cool (not cold) air in the 3rd row's RHS cup-holder. Crank the blower level up and it sounds like a mini turbulence going on in the cup-holder area!!

Originally Posted by GTO

See those vents in the cupholder? If the blower level is at 5, they churn out a serious amount of cool (not cold) air. Will keep your bottle cool, but can get very noisy as there's a mini-turbulence inside. Rear air-con condenser is placed behind this panel.

The Vents in the rear cup holder are not blowing air. IMHO its actually sucking air and due to the circular shape, it feels like its blowing. This is infact the inlet for the rear air blower. Its the same location for the blower in all big MUVs/SUVs. My Xylo had it in the same area and the air inlet was at the same place though there was no cup holder there. Even the Fortuner has the air inlet at the same place and there too it feels its blowing air.

In fact the water dripping trait is also the same in all these vehicles.

[lollapalooza]

Superb review GTO. Very comprehensive and detailed.

I am going to be in the market for a 7/8 seater car in the next few months and the old Innova wasn't even in the reckoning. The moment this car came out, I was jumping up and down as it pretty much checks all the boxes.

The disappointment (bordering on deal breaker) is that the top end comes in only 7 seater layout and most of the times we will be 5 people in the car.

Will be a close call between this and the XUV now.