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Old 1st April 2020, 11:30   #31
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
Wouldn't a twin turbo perhaps be more prone to issues, specially in our conditions?
These SUVs are designed to run in really really harsh conditions, having a twin turbo or single would not make any difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000 View Post
Is this due to diesel vehicle restrictions in Delhi?
There is no restriction on engine size in Delhi NCR right now, just a rule that doesn't allow Diesel cars older than 10 years on roads. In past there was a brief ban by Supreme Court, which was removed later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prateekvidya View Post
...and the right comparison would be the Fortuner which in the BS6 variant barely offers 4% more power with a 2.8L engine.
The real difference lies in Power to weight ratio. 70bhp/tonne isn't really an appealing figure for enthusiasts, decent only for a chauffeur driven MPV like usage(Carnival and Crysta are far superior in that respect) or as a Mall Crawler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by docinog View Post
Given that, at present, only the single turbo 2.0l diesel engine is available, is it a viable option to remap the ECU so as to boost the engine’s power and torque to values somewhat at par with those of the Bi Turbo 10 AT Ford Everest? Will this be stressful on the engine and the other mechanical parts in the long run, even if driven with a light foot?

Such a solution seems to be feasible because both these engines are essentially the same, the only difference being their state of tune and single/ bi turbo. As a result, post remap the power figures would be like the stock bi turbo which translates into mush less probability of damaging the engine/ other mechanical parts as long as one drives sensibly.

What do you feel about this?
Endeavour is a complex car and I wont recommend modifications which would void warranty.

A Remap will bump up the power and torque figures and will make the car much better to drive but it wont change the powerband, the narrow powerband will become more prominent with more boost. For example our friend AceF355 has a remapped 2.2 MT 4x4 variant, the car makes upwards of 190bhp but that engine also has narrow powerband, even with supershort gearing it struggles in low end and top end isnt phenomenal either, all the power lies in midrange.

In comparison Twin turbo engines have wider power band(mid range + top end), so I am expecting even if you ignore power bump, that engine will be far nicer to drive, it wont run out of steam by 3600rpm, the 10 speed gearbox will work much better with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 991.2GT3 View Post
Fantastic review Anshuman! I've lived w my 2016 Endeavor 3.2 for a while now(42k kms to be precise) and can't imagine a smaller less powerful engine in this size of car, on the contrary i've been contemplating getting a remap for the longest time to get more oomph out of this beast!
Last November in Jaisalmer, I did crawl recovery on 2 different Endeavours multiple times, I found the throttle to be super laggy, while it offers smoother power delivery but the throttle lag(not turbo lag) did let the car crawl.

I had a strong feeling a throttle controller can improve the situation. There are very good reviews on a throttle controller called IDrive from Australia. So one friend got it fitted in his Endy and the results are phenomenal not only for offroad use but also for on usage. Even with the same power and torque figures, the car now feels much more responsive and peppy, good thing is its a plug and play device with some 15-20 levels of adjustments. You can try this out, will make a big change.

Also, 3.2 engine responds really well to remap. If you are not concerned about warranty, go for remap + throttle controller.
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:41   #32
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

Excellent report. Thanks a lot for sharing.
My two big grouses with the Endeavour 3.2 were poor acceleration while driving in the city (specifically 15kmph to 40kmph zone) and the sub par driver's seat. The previous gen had better seats than what this version has.
The new engine + gearbox it seems fixes the acceleration part but takes away the glorious punch from the engine at higher speeds. Honestly because of the lag, I don't enjoy driving the Endeavour in city limits, highways are another story though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
An Endy without reach adjustable steering? Really! If not giving us a powerful large OR twin turbo engine, at least add good list of over the top features like paddle shifters etc.
Sadly it never got one. I so miss the convenience of adjusting the steering to get that perfect driving position.
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:58   #33
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000 View Post
Exceptional review. Thank you for making my lockdown a bit interesting. I am really disappointed with the 2.0L engine being replaced for a mighty 3.2L engine. This makes no sense at all to me. Is this due to diesel vehicle restrictions in Delhi? or they want to match it with the Alturas G2 & G4 (thanks to Mahindra and Ford JV)?
To keep costs down, most car makers are moving to smaller & sufficiently powerful engines - because that's where majority of the customer base lies. Proportionately, very few people who buy a 45L OTR car, drive it themselves & are generally chauffeured around instead. That also makes a large engine a bit insignificant as the owner will rarely experience it. A smaller engine with more fuel efficiency & lower maintenance cost is what statistically more customers prefer - in developing markets like India.

Companies (bean counters) decide that its not worth managing assembly, supply chain, spares & service for an additional 3.2 L engine or a twin turbo 2.0L if the sales numbers are very tiny (which is the case).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000 View Post
Jeep Compass, Hector and Harrier all have the 2.0L engine and 170 BHP at cheaper price and even more features (cough Hector).
The cars don't exactly compare. Can't compare a small monocoque car with a ladder on frame beast. Compass/Harrier are 5 seaters. Feature list is also quite longer in the Endy. Harrier doesn't even have an option of AWD whereas Endy gets a proper 4x4 with lockable diffs & low range transfer case.

Of course - the cars beyond Compass in the higher segments will always seem overpriced for what they offer, but that applies to all cars & not just the Endaevour. The aspirational value, target customer base & overall experience for the owner all have a part to play in this price. These are exclusive products, not mass market.
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Old 1st April 2020, 13:11   #34
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Just to clarify, the office team also drove an Endeavour 2.0 at a Mumbai dealer and added some points. We did this because we knew the coronavirus is going to delay the press car.
Excellent idea and wonderful execution there Rush, combing a short media drive with a bit more comprehensive local dealer based test-drive. This review reeks core essence of how a SUV should ideally be reviewed, even if it is an update in real terms. Couldn't have been a better way to compile an official review in these difficult times. Cheers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
For example our friend AceF355 has a remapped 2.2 MT 4x4 variant, the car makes upwards of 190bhp but that engine also has narrow powerband, even with supershort gearing it struggles in low end and top end isnt phenomenal either, all the power lies in midrange.
Correct, that's why anybody shouldn't go for remaps blindly thinking it will improve performance. In my case, the mid-range is what I wanted to be punchy which the remap has provided. Coming from 3.0 D-4D mill of 1st gen Fortuner, I was spoilt for absolutely amazing low end grunt which I still miss in my 2.2 Endeavour at times.

That being said, irrespective of absolute numbers, peak torque and power band from the 2.2 are best within Ford Endeavour range which is why this engine responds nicely to a MT gearbox rather than the 3.2 or the new 2.0. I still have a band of 1200 RPMs to play with for peak torque, starting from 1500 RPMs in stock tune while the new 2.0 single turbo delivers its punch at 2000 RPMs. Like you said in the opening posts, it is actually the gearbox that makes the 2.0 engine shine.

For reference, here is how number-wise 2.2, 3.2 and the new 2 litre single (& twin turbo) compare.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
In comparison Twin turbo engines have wider power band(mid range + top end), so I am expecting even if you ignore power bump, that engine will be far nicer to drive, it wont run out of steam by 3600rpm, the 10 speed gearbox will work much better with it.
Correct. Top whack of twin turbo 2 litre will be better for sure, by virtue of its design; but my hunch is it is still likely to remain similar/ only marginally better than my remapped 2.2. Although, the magic of 10 speed gearbox will surely be interesting to see with the twin turbo motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
remap + throttle controller.
Absolutely, having driven the iDrive throttle controller equipped car myself, I can tell it is difference of night and day in response. iDrive controllers are considered among the best in the business by many and I am contemplating to get this on my car as well, although truth be told my car's throttle response is anyday better than the 6 speed AT on older 3.2. My feeling is that in sand dunes or during our offroad jaunts, iDrive will increase the effect of throttle modulation that we need to do at times.

Last edited by Ace F355 : 1st April 2020 at 13:38. Reason: ADDED Remap numbers into the table
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Old 1st April 2020, 21:32   #35
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

Thank you everyone for your elucidation.

One always knew the old adage that there is no replacement for displacement to which you can now also add ‘hardware’.

Since the old 3.2L is gone for good, the only hope for the aficionado is that Ford eventually decides to bring the 2.0L Bi turbo to India. That will truly help the Endeavour in regaining its old glory in the eyes of the enthusiast.

I do hope that Ford India is listening!
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Old 1st April 2020, 23:44   #36
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

A friend of mine owns a Mercedes GLC. I was always fascinated with its 9-speed transmission. However, it’s 2.2 ltr diesel engine is considered to be inferior than BMW and Audi’s 2 ltr engine. So, I was interested to know the performance of the power train as a whole. He was happy to inform that, its brisk and effortless with 100 kmph achieved at just 1300-1400 rpm in 9th gear. Since then I believe, one of the main reason/feature to go for premium/luxury car is higher number of ratios. It really transforms the driving experience.
In this view, I liked this combination- a decent engine mated to a brilliant transmission. It should keep most of people happy. Moreover, I see biTurbo has even narrower peak torque band.
For the same reason I liked what Jeep did to Compass AT by plonking a 9-speed transmission.
I see this as a future trend, smaller engines mated to transmissions having higher no. of ratios. It helps in achieving several goals for manufacturers such as cost, emissions, efficiency, driveability etc.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 01:52   #37
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

Thanks for the review. The Ford Ranger (Pickup truck using the same platform) is now launched in America.

Reading about the powerband, I’m glad that they didn’t include an MT. It’d been a pain to drive in stop and go traffic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
These SUVs are designed to run in really really harsh conditions, having a twin turbo or single would not make any difference.
True. No turbo would be best. The six cylinder 1HZ engine of Toyota is one of the most reliable on the planet.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 17:17   #38
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

Nice review, to me Ford did the right thing by launching 2.0Litre engine. What they should have done is offered atleast one manual variant. Also Just like Fortuner AT should have come with 4X2 and 4X4. I love Toyota's model offering in Fortuner, 4x4 in AT/MT and same with 4x2, gives enough flexibility to buyer.

With these tall, heavy SUV/cars it is important to have engines with good low end torque than more power/capacity to hit crazy speeds. If you are looking at a SUV to drive fast and speed past sedans, look elsewhere.
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Old 3rd April 2020, 11:26   #39
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
For those interested, here is Anshuman's video review:
In the video of the engine bay with engine idling, I see quite a lot of movements with the connecting pipes. Isn't it unusual? I've never experienced something similar with my cars. Of course, I do not own too many, and never seen the Endeavour's engine bay, hence the question.

Last edited by Sheel : 3rd April 2020 at 19:55. Reason: Please do not put video's URL in your quoted post. Thank You.
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Old 3rd April 2020, 11:40   #40
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

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Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
In the video of the engine bay with engine idling, I see quite a lot of movements with the connecting pipes. Isn't it unusual? I've never experienced something similar with my cars. Of course, I do not own too many, and never seen the Endeavour's engine bay, hence the question.
It is absolutely normal, and each of those hoses that you see would be tightly clamped to a secured mounting point to ensure it does not have an unintended touch with a surrounding component. And during testing phase any good car maker tests the cars, then there are audits to see if there are any signs of scratches or marks accumulated on these hoses to ensure they will serve their function without any hiccups.
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Old 3rd April 2020, 19:48   #41
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

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Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
In the video of the engine bay with engine idling, I see quite a lot of movements with the connecting pipes. Isn't it unusual?
It does appear. Honestly, I haven’t noticed so much of movement in any car yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
It is absolutely normal.
No, I don’t think so. Somethings is definitely different. Maybe others can pitch in.

This is what I could find - check from 1,10 Sec

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...rX34L5zw2IgJaZ
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Old 4th April 2020, 08:02   #42
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

I have a 2016 Endeavour 3.2 Titanium, and the Endeavour is the only 7 seater that I would lean towards if I were to trade-in my current ride.

But a single turbo at this price point is not an excusable replacement for the old 3.2. While the new 2.0 L Turbo is a good upgrade for the older 2.2 L engine, this is definitely a downgrade for 3.2 owners. At this price point, Ford should have given us the 2.0 Bi-turbo, or even looked at one of their existing Ecoboost powertrain options - 2.3L Ecoboost, which is the base engine for the NA Ford Explorer, or the 3.0L Ecoboost, both of which could address the NCR market as well.

I guess I am going to keep mine for a while, in spite of the warts of the Sync 2.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 4th April 2020 at 09:51. Reason: line spacing
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Old 4th April 2020, 13:24   #43
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
It does appear.
Thank you

On further discussion with my people, I understand these pipes typically have reinforcements inside which makes them rigid. In the endeavour, these looks like just rubber hoses. Any oscillation, like the one in the video, will put unnecessary stress to the pipes. To stay safe, I'd say such oscillations will not increase the life, for sure.
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Old 4th April 2020, 20:35   #44
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

I testdrove the BS6 Endeavour a few weeks back and although it was a very short 5-6 KM test drive, I found the engine not very powerful but super refined for a big diesel and the shifts were smooth. In fact in this short time I really liked the gearbox and the official review confirms its prowess. NVH levels were good too. Can't compare with the Fortuner but the ride felt a little bumpy specially compared to my Innova. Ingress egress could be a problem for elderly and third row accessibility is poor mainly because the second row seats don't fold down completely. But once inside, the space is decent. Built quality, fit and finish was good as you'd expect from a car of this price range. Overall it's a good car to buy but you'll love it if you are a sedate driver. If you want to race, look elsewhere.
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Old 6th April 2020, 13:43   #45
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing)

Another good video from CarsGuide featuring the Everest-



It was able to hold its own in the company of the mighty Prado.

The Everest in contention here is the 2.0 Bi-Turbo, so not all the elements in the video are applicable to us. I really wish that Ford had launched the Bi-Turbo in India, not because I would have bought it, but because as an enthusiast, I appreciate when companies bring in their best to our market, specifically in terms of engine.
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