[nitkel]

Originally Posted by S15

But then again, what is to be expected from a person who argues with a moderator (check post #317 onwards), who has actually driven the car, and has the audacity to tell him that he's wrong, because his Youtube and brochure derived spreadsheet are clearly a far-superior, and an infallible method of judgement.

Moderators are also human and will have their own biases. Nothing wrong in disagreeing with them! Many (I daresay most) of the posts here on Team-Bhp are speculative or based on second hand information, except a few by people who have actually driven or sat in the cars being discussed. It's an online forum after all and any person who gets influenced into buying or rejecting a car based on just Team-Bhp posts isn't making the right decision IMO!

[RavenAvi]

Allow me to put forward a different opinion here.

I think Skoda India have done their homework. They realise that they cannot simply take over the position that Hyundai/Kia have carved for themselves in the past 15-odd years overnight. For a car which offers a package comparable to the Creta/Seltos (give or take a few exclusive features), the Kushaq is a good option with the 1.0L TSI at the prices where the 1.5L average-performing Korean NA variants have slotted themselves in.

Yes, the mid and top variants are a bit overpriced (50K-75K, IMO) but that is where most sales come from, and Skoda is aiming to score a bit from there. As a mechanical package, the Kushaq is a compelling option over the Korean twins and with good engineering to boot. Sure, some plastics and liners are not of the quality Skoda is known for, but the car is very, very heavily localised. Inherently, the Kushaq has retained the underpinnings of a typical Skoda car in terms of performance and ride quality, and this is where Skoda hopes to cash in with the Kushaq.

But, where they have abysmally lost the plot, is the feature list for the top ATs. I have always been a firm believer that similar variant names should have similar equipment lists, and more often than not, Hyundai India themselves has been the culprit of providing more features on a Creta SX AT (for example) over a Creta SX MT, which, quite frankly, is not acceptable (except for the change in transmission, but of course). So, the same features available on the Style MT but not in the Style AT is quite baffling and mind-boggling, specially when the features are passive-safety related and are so crucial on our absolutely unpredictable roads.

And, no diesel. For a compact SUV which reminds one of performance when you see the badge on the grille up front, not giving a diesel to the Kushaq is like tying a boxer's right hand behind him, right before a fight. What are the brains in product management smoking, I wonder.

Yes, the Kushaq will not set the sales charts on fire, but if it can pull off ~2,000 units a month, that too as a petrol-only offering, it's a moderate success. All this when Skoda horror stories, unpredictable transmissions and dealerships, eye-watering spare part prices and questionable ownership experiences are taken into account. Let's see what the future holds for the car in sales numbers in 6 months' time before burying it.

And please, in an era where i20/Baleno prices are touching 11L+ and a Tata Nexon is nearing 15L in some cities, overpricing shouldn't be a worry. I don't think there's any such thing as VFM anymore. Even Maruti-Suzuki has been jacking up prices of their cars every 3 months these days - check the prices of a Swift or DZire top-end now. Let's not bring Hyundai into the equation - they have been masters at overpricing their most popular offerings from Day 1 itself.

For the record, I have not driven the Kushaq yet and am going strictly by our official reviews and youtube videos.

And yes, all this is coming from a 1 year old 2020 Creta SX IVT owner.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by Lowflyer23

Summed up PERFECTLY! While I agree Skoda could have gone for an aggressive pricing but again it wouldn't have made much of a difference to the janta which prefer cars with diwali lights to a safer (I bet on it) and dynamically superior alternative. Everybody starts to crib but the truth is even after the crash tests we see loads of Seltos and Creta ownership reports even here (no offence to owners).

Are you arguing that the Korean siblings don't offer competent engines, brilliant gear boxes, peace of mind when it comes to ASS, and offer a huge combination of power trains, great boxes and variants? And that it's all only due to "Diwali lights"?

Just read the review of the seltos in the tbhp official thread and tell me you disagree with the neutral experts?

Or is your argument that discerning buyers should only buy the "of classical euro bro" VAG cars or they are all, the 10's of thousands of them not discerning and informed buyers?

The fact of the matter is these cars offer great vfm, highly competent engines, slick gearboxes (auto or manual), a huge and Reliable sales and after sales networks. If you think these cars only sell because "bling" then I have to respectfully disagree with you.

[abhishek_hch]

Originally Posted by VS1811

So, a year and bit back, i bought Seltos GT Line (GTX) DCT for 20k (ex showroom) more than Kushaq 1.0 AT Style and i got below advantages:
- A bigger, more spacious and more butch looking car
- Much more powerful engine and punchier performance
- Larger MID with TPMS, auto headlights
- Six airbags, rear disk brakes
- Heads up display and air purifier

How did you figure out the following -
1. More spacious car considering space is two dimensional & not one.
2. Much more powerful engine, considering that on paper atleast Seltos DCT has lesser BHP than Kushaq DCT.
3. Highly curious as to how you figured out the punchier performance bit? (As mostly you would not have had the chance to drive it yet)

[any23]

Originally Posted by any23

Sorry Skoda, you have killed Kushaq just by its pricing.

My friend/colleague who cancelled his EcoSport booking is now looking for other options.

Quoting my own post here, reason being as my colleague is now looking for Creta SX, he is confused between Kushaq Style 1.0MT & Creta SX.

I am sure Venue/Sonet segment buyers are feeling bad after the price reveal of Kushaq, but Creta/Seltos buyers will sure have a hard time deciding their final buy.

And as mentioned after comparing the feature list, Kushaq base variant is priced well, and for other variants it’s just difference of 50-60K variant to variant between rival brands.

If I would have been in market searching for an SUV in the said price range, eyes closed I would have gone with Kushaq considering the feature, tech and ride&handling it is offering.

[amods]

From a prospective buyer's point of view, I feel the car in all it's variants are overpriced by a lakh rupees ex-showroom. I may not be correct from a manufacturer's perspective.

Looks like I'll have to let it go for now and wait for the Taigun's pricing, possibly to be disappointed again -or- wait for heavy discounts in future.

Fun section - Who's buying the car new for me to get it pre-owned in future I'm ready to wait.

[John316_WRC]

Okay guys, everyone has their own views, own preferences, and biases. Nothing wrong with that. Best way is to ignore people who are trying to force their views onto others. So let's all take a chill pill and agree to disagree.

Now back to the prices. At 11am when I was saw the price reveal I was very disappointed. Again, these are just my views.

1. The Kushaq has a minor size disadvantage compared to the Creta/Seltos, and overall the tight design makes it look smaller than them. So the least Skoda should have done was price it at 9.99 L an an introductory offering.

2. The Seltos HTE (diesel) retails at 10.45 L ex.showroom. So I can't understand why Skoda would price the 1.0 tsi at a same range. Yes the Kushaq is not actually bare bones, but keep in mind for the same money you get a slightly roomier/larger car and a diesel motor.

3. Is Skoda only making products for their fan base alone? If they only want the enthusiasts to buy their products then they've lost the plot. Not everyone in India wants a corner carver. Some people are happy with just the basics. The Seltos might have messed up on the safety aspect, but its covered the other bases pretty well.

4. I'm not going into the horror stories of Skoda ASS but we all know its part of the package. So why go the premium price route Skoda?

5. Couldn't Skoda learn from the Magnite/Kiger strategy? For many people, in the current financial situation the bottom line is all that matters. Skoda had their own Rider versions do decent number because of aggressive pricing. How could they not learn from that pricing strategy?

When you play catch up or when you're going up against established market leaders you have to work on smaller margins, and I feel like Skoda didn't do this here.

Mark my words, Skoda will have to do pricing revisions once the initial hype has died out and the sales numbers speak for themselves. For the sake of Skoda, I hope I'm proven wrong. Missed opportunity. Peace!

[VS1811]

Originally Posted by abhishek_hch

How did you figure out the following -
1. More spacious car considering space is two dimensional & not one.
2. Much more powerful engine, considering that on paper atleast Seltos DCT has lesser BHP than Kushaq DCT.
3. Highly curious as to how you figured out the punchier performance bit? (As mostly you would not have had the chance to drive it yet)

1. Won't get into a technical discussion here but I trust teambhp and some very trustable reviewers who have all called out that Kushaq is less on space at rear and is strictly a 4 seater.

2. Maybe you missed but I compared Kushaq 1.0 AT with Seltos GTX DCT

3. Again, I do have 0-100 timings, in gear acceleration numbers, kickdown 20-80 and 40-100 times to make my comparison. Again, the comparison is between 1.0 Style AT with 1.4 DCT since the prices are at par (at the time I bought, a year back)

[07CR]

Originally Posted by abhishek_hch

How did you figure out the following -
1. More spacious car considering space is two dimensional & not one.
2. Much more powerful engine, considering that on paper atleast Seltos DCT has lesser BHP than Kushaq DCT.
3. Highly curious as to how you figured out the punchier performance bit? (As mostly you would not have had the chance to drive it yet)

1) IMO legroom is good in both cars , whereas the width of Seltos is significantly better. Headroom is more or less same.
2) He's comparing the 1.0 litre variant of Kushaq.
3) Most likely by the performance figures posted by host of journos for the 1.0 litre Kushaq, vs 1.4 litre Seltos. It's no contest actually.

[AZT]

@ Mods can we move the pricing discussion to another thread. All else aside the review was good and we can't have a proper discussion on the car itself with this price segway we've taken.

The car may sink or swim but let's discuss the car and it's features. Let's hear from people who want to buy it, how was the test drive etc.

[Lowflyer23]

Originally Posted by Stribog

Are you arguing that...
disagree with you.

My dear friend I never said these cars aren't competitive, there is a reason the Korean twins sell. I think the Diwali phrase made you a bit uneasy but frankly these cars are not to my taste. I prefer safety of my family and mine to features and long list of powertrains and I live to drive, so I always would opt for a dynamically superior and safer car (even if it is so by a slight margin).

Originally Posted by headbanger

1. As far as a long list of niggles...
wiser going forward.

Talking about niggles in modern Skodas, I've not seen something as horrific as brake failure which the everyone's 'favourite' brand refuses to rectify. This shows how much they value customer lives and also I won't argue much as I believe I have already said what I wanted to and anyone may take it as they wish to.

Also, Nexon and XUV300 (though from a different segment) are high riding automatic vehicles available in the range of 10-20 Lacs.

Originally Posted by S15

This is a personal attack for you?
Please use the report post button, then.

Relax mate, please maintain discussion calmly and appreciate others' inputs even though they may contradict yours and please don't take this request negatively.

Originally Posted by Behemoth

Not at all the case...
claim in any way.

Respected Sir, I understand and completely agree with you upon the goof up by Skoda of impartial treatment to the automatics. However, I would still refrain from Sonet because firstly, 16 lacs for a sub 4m compact SUV is too much IMO and secondly, it's based on the far cheaper Santro's platform and everybody knows how it fared in the crash tests. The reports of Seltos added more doubts and the absolutely silly reliability issues over and above that removed Kia from my consideration and automotive advice permanently (no offence to anyone). Also Sir, I'll anyday prefer a stable shell with 2 airbags rather than an unstable one with 6 airbags.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by 07CR

I am not sure about this. This is a pre owned car, which has completed 3 years already. TBH, there is still no rattle (touchwood), anywhere in the car, neither do I find my roof liner/sunroof compartment flexing with slight touch of my hand as seen in the EVO India review of Kushaq.

That sunroof video from Evo was hilarious. There's no way anyone will pull the headliner like that to check for flex. In the Ecosport the sunroof design has a additional beading around the headliner cut out vs the Skoda which is more flush. This is a mere difference of design and not quality or cost cutting as being highlighted.

I've seen definition of rattles being different. Even maruti owners say no rattles. Rattles can be any squeaks, creaks over roads as well as resonance at rpm's due to parts getting loose. You will find plenty in the Ecosport simply due to clips breaking over time.

It's way better than Maruti but VW cars like Polo, Vento and Rapid are far superior. This is similar as per our review. I will confirm when I check out the car when crowds are lesser and they come for a drive.

By no means is the Ecosport a comfortable 5 seater, but from whatever pictures I saw in some journos reviews, where they seat 3 adults on the rear bench, it clearly is visible that the third person in very uncomfortable on the bench in Kushaq. Relatively, IMO, my mom (healthy build), sis and BIL (healthy build) seat much more comfortably on the rear bench in ecosport. Maybe as the Ecosport is wider than Kushaq, the interior space could be a bit better?

The external width difference is not much and I believe internal will be same. But the difference is in way seat is designed. Ford has kept a flat seat base and back rest but the Kushaq like all Euro cars has countours and 2 distinct buckets. This is what make it look less wider and when people sit they are pushed more inwards. So yes might be less comfortable but again that was the case with Octavia and T-ROC as well.

Ecosport gets the dynamic guidelines, with much better camera display.

Is this in the SYNC system or the other one? SYNC was good the other not at all.

I agree ride quality over broken roads is pathetic in Ecosport. But stated earlier, I was talking only about the fun to drive factor. Me and dad are prepared to forego the ride quality, if the car offers the best high speed manners and steering is a delight.

Actually again, stiff ride doesn't mean great handling. They don't go hand in hand. Indian roads need a suspension that doesn't lose composure on mid corner bumps. The Ecosport gets totally unsettled when it hits a bump mid corner and this affects both handling and high speed manners.

Also I didn't meant to say the Ecosport to be a better car. It's just the overall parameters we have compared for both cars, and IMO, I simply don't find paying premium of over 3L for the Kushaq Style AT.

I think this perception will change hugely when you go and drive or sit in a Kushaq. The problem is on paper the Kushaq looks less impressive and the Ford more impressive.

I like the Ford but it's an old product now and game has moved on.

[vellatechie]

Emotions are running high and partly because lot of people wanted this to be their next car or was excited about Skoda finally doing 5-6K monthly numbers.

Unfortunately Neither of the two will happen now. Noone expected it to undercut or be more VFM than Hyundai but this is just stupid pricing from Skoda.

[niceguisuku]

This thread has surely caught fire. By looking at the pricing, it is clear that Skoda positioned it only for them who can tolerate their misgivings, not for the mass market. Any product is mostly a success when it meets customer pain points with some value proposition. Skoda has definitely erred in understanding pain points, pricing and features. Lot of potential customers would not even mind to step into their showrooms.

We can clearly see in this thread itself that there are more people rue the pricing and what can i say about mass market, even if how many ever justify the pricing / value proposition. And those who justify the pricing, do keep in mind that the expectations of lower pricing came from the Skoda's brag that they achieved 95% localization. Also who on earth would erase their own USP by not giving the safety everyone deserves at certain price points ofcourse. Skoda definitely has to fire lot of their marketing and product guys for sure and it is a testimonial to their inability of getting this capable product wrong in an important market like India.

[Col Mehta]

Originally Posted by Lowflyer23

EDIT: Those claiming that they booked sonet after the Kushaq's price reveal are indirectly indicating dropping it from their shortlist due to their own budget constraints by comparing the Kushaq to a segment lower car. VAG group cars are premium, safer and better to drive than most of their rivals and that's the reason they command a premium. In fact, their 40 lac rupee cars (Superb and Allspace) are bargains as they give cars 2 segments above a run for their money. Most of the people still won't get it because they prefer being "Dil se Strong" and following the trend.

My dear fellow member,

I'm one of those "people" who "claimed" to have booked Sonet, which we did book this afternoon, and it is going to be close to 16 lacs on road. And if we can afford to buy a 16 lacs sub 4 meter car, I'm sure we all understand its not really a matter of "budget constraint" to spend spend another couple of lacs to get Skoda Kushaq.

So where is the problem - well, it didn't make sense to us . That's it. Personal choice, right? Im not going into the details of how ridiculous we thought the pricing was in the context of inferior quality material used, as pointed by reviewers, and lack of safety/6 airbags (how ironical!). So lets not get too excited and start passing judgements. And let's be a little respectful of others' decisions. Please? Thank you.

Have a good rest of your evening.