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Old 3rd May 2022, 09:50   #46
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

What I would wish this package to be...

1. A plug-in hybrid, so I can wall-charge the battery independently.

2. A bigger battery. 200-250 kms range would suffice considering this a hybrid, so the petrol motor need not fire frequently providing for a better driving experience.

3. Battery installed in the floor-panel conventionally.

4. Perhaps a smaller (3-cyl petrol) motor. The car's propulsion would come from the electric motor and the primary job of the petrol motor is to charge the battery only. This would also help offset the highter cost of bigger battery.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 09:51   #47
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by pd1108 View Post
1. Is there a way of knowing if the petrol tank requires refilling?
2. On foggy or days when it is pouring heavily, will the ADAS camera work (effectively)?
1. Since there is a 40L fuel tank this is just like any normal petrol car and if you see the images it has the same fuel level gauge at the bottom of the cluster.

2. ADAS may not be as effective through fog and that's why the system is designed to warn and disable itself if it cannot read the lines or the road clearly. It will tell you the system is temporarily not available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
What's the pure electric range of this car? Is that even a proper question or as @Lobogris said, battery is only to get the car moving.

Also my understanding from the Ads and other reviews is different.This is completely different from what the reviewers and other forum members have commented. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Pure hybrid mode where the engine powers the generator to charge the battery. Battery runs the traction motor. The clutch is engaged.
I believe your description is inaccurate of the hybrid mode. The clutch is not engaged in hybrid mode and is only engaged after 80km/hr in engine mode. Do read the review engine post once.

Also, there is no pure electric range specified as the system decides how to use the EV mode. If you are using it inside traffic and constantly braking and accelerating, the range goes up since the regen recovers charge. If you accelerate more aggressively the petrol engine kicks in.


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Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
Sorry can you elaborate on that please? What happens to diesel cars purchased in 2022?
BS6.2 norms coming into effect in 2023. Nothing happens to existing cars like BS4 cars running today without any issues.

But all new cars from 2023 need to meet BS6.2 which means all the Kia/Hyundai cars that are currently being sold without SCR and urea dosing cannot be sold unless Kia/hyundai again adapts new diesel cars to urea dosing and SCR.

This is the primary reason Maruti/VW/Skoda didn't want to get BS6 diesel in 2020 cause they knew it's only for 3 years till 2023 Bs6.2 norms kick in after which diesel will not make sense in smaller applications.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 11:42   #48
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Fantastic review. I completely agree that hybrids are the stepping stone before going fully electric which will take another 10-15 years for the infrastructure development in India. I am surprised that it took so long for the Japanese makers to bring affordable hybrids to the Indian market. Nevertheless, kudos to Honda for bringing it. I am also glad that this hybrid City e:HEV comes with all the level-2 ADAS features
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Old 3rd May 2022, 11:58   #49
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Great review. I think depending on driving style one can exceed the company specified fuel efficiency.
Why nissan has not thought of launching their epower series (where IC engines acts purely as a generator and electric motor turns the wheel) in India.Once Honda announce their prices,I am sure that Nissan will realise that they had missed the bus.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 12:34   #50
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

A lot of people say "If priced right ..."

So, what is a good price? At what price would you buy it over the corresponding City Petrol? City Diesel?
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Old 3rd May 2022, 13:04   #51
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Excellent review and a probable excellent product.

All said and done, I am not very optimistic about the feasibility and success of this product. That's more to do with the predicted price than product as a whole.

20+ lakhs ex showroom is like 5 lakhs more than the ZX CVT model. That translates into 6-7 lakhs higher initial investment.

There will be few benefits (apart from emission and the obvious efficiency) like
1. ADAS system
2. More rated torque and ease of driving (silence/response in city traffic)

But ultimately the car looks more or less the same. And this is no step ahead in terms of overall performance.

So is it worth the extra money for the benefits that the car has to offer? I doubt mathematics says it otherwise.

A crossover. With only hybrid option should be something Honda better target for.

Because in value game, City hybrid has got very little justification irrespective of the sophistication offered in terms of powertrain. (Unless they price it really aggressively.)

Or atleast government should give tax benefits to strong hybrids to make sense
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Old 3rd May 2022, 13:07   #52
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

This is the type of car which you first brush aside as a gimmick, but fall in love hard as time goes by. Very much like AR Rahman's classics which makes one to love even more every time you listen to it - A Slow burner. Well I'm impressed to the bones now, a proper global hybrid on our shores. The amount of engineering went into this to create this as is' is freaking impressive. I feel this is the type of car which in 20-30 years be like "My papa/grandpa used to own the first gen Octavia" - A special legacy to leave behind for a petrol head.

The more you think about it, it gets more obvious - Hybrids, especially for India. Lets get real, EV infra is going to take atleast 2 decades to be as ubiquitous as fuel stations are. Hybrid's going to slot in perfectly for the transition to happen. Fuel efficiency is not a primary thing for me but an added bonus (but can't digest 6-7-8 kmpl ones). I would gladly get one IF priced around 25L OTR. And that's a big IF, I can easily see it touching 30L
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Old 3rd May 2022, 13:14   #53
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhu View Post
A lot of people say "If priced right ..."

So, what is a good price? At what price would you buy it over the corresponding City Petrol? City Diesel?
As it is I would not buy this at all. In that segment I would happily go for Slavia / Virtus 1.5 TSI.

But hypothetically if I have to pick this over regular City for the hybrid and other technology on offer, it would to 3 to 3.5 lakhs over top end City at the maximum. Beyond that I dont see any benefit of this, mainly from efficiency perspective. And then the compromise one has to do in terms of boot space.

Last edited by sunikkat : 3rd May 2022 at 13:23.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 13:14   #54
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

I had asked these exact questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpkeerthi View Post

2. A bigger battery. 200-250 kms range would suffice considering this a hybrid, so the petrol motor need not fire frequently providing for a better driving experience.
Yes, but the petrol engine will spend time replenishing the larger battery so any increment was a diminishing return
Quote:

3. Battery installed in the floor-panel conventionally.
The cost of a redesigned floor plan was not worth it. Besides, the fuel tank sits there


Quote:
4. Perhaps a smaller (3-cyl petrol) motor. The car's propulsion would come from the electric motor and the primary job of the petrol motor is to charge the battery only. This would also help offset the highter cost of bigger battery.
Considering economies of scale, maintaining parts commonalities, common production lines and engine power curves, converting the 1.5 into an Atkinson cycle engine made more sense

Last edited by ajmat : 3rd May 2022 at 17:13.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 13:49   #55
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Fantastic review. Especially the explanation about how different modes work. I had not been following this car much and had assumed it was a namesake hybrid mainly for marketing purposes. Did not realise it was the real deal as far as hybrids go. Sounded very complicated and alien, but being Honda am sure they have perfected the system. The addition of ADAS is a welcome move.

The boot-space is a huge downer though. 300liters is almost useless considering it is an expensive sedan and am not sure if the mileage efficiency benefit is good enough to outweigh the practical consideration of a good boot.

Definitely looking forward to a test drive though.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 13:58   #56
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKC-auto View Post
In hybrid mode, the battery does not power the motor, the engine via the generator powers the motor, the clutch is disengaged.

What is combined mode? Only 3 modes, switching happens seamlessly based on speed, battery charge.

The important screenshot is here:
Attachment 2303465
The pics I've attached from Honda India web page. Hybrid mode clearly shows power from battery to wheel. My mistake. I've written combined mode instead of the Engine mode. Also your pics seem to be from the Jazz EV. Perhaps it's from a different presentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I believe your description is inaccurate of the hybrid mode. The clutch is not engaged in hybrid mode and is only engaged after 80km/hr in engine mode. Do read the review engine post once.
The 3rd pic I've posted has a mistake in it. It says clutch engaged but shows power flowing through. It should say clutch disengaged. I may be wrong, but in conventional vehicles, if clutch is engaged, the vehicle freewheels. When the clutch is disengaged, the engine drives the car. Unless the terminology reverses in hybrid tech?
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Old 3rd May 2022, 14:40   #57
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
The pics I've attached from Honda India web page. Hybrid mode clearly shows power from battery to wheel. My mistake. I've written combined mode instead of the Engine mode. Also your pics seem to be from the Jazz EV. Perhaps it's from a different presentation?
I'm not sure what you are referring to again. The images from Honda web page are what I have explained as well in the review.

In engine mode the petrol engine drives the wheels but also charges the battery pack. you can clearly see in this mode a gear lock symbol appears on the dash and the power flow changes showing engine to wheels as well as wheels to battery for charging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
The 3rd pic I've posted has a mistake in it. It says clutch engaged but shows power flowing through. It should say clutch disengaged. I may be wrong, but in conventional vehicles, if clutch is engaged, the vehicle freewheels. When the clutch is disengaged, the engine drives the car. Unless the terminology reverses in hybrid tech?
There is no mistake from Honda in the pic. The pic shows clutch engaged which means the clutch locks up. That's the definition of clutch "to lock or grasp".

What you are confusing it with is how a clutch works in a manual transmission. In a manual you have a clutch that when engaged locks the transmission to the engine. When you press the clutch pedal you are actually releasing the clutch from engaging and disengaging the transmission.

In the Hybrid the clutch engages and locks up the engine to the wheels.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 3rd May 2022 at 14:42.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 14:48   #58
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
The pics I've attached from Honda India web page. Hybrid mode clearly shows power from battery to wheel. My mistake. I've written combined mode instead of the Engine mode. Also your pics seem to be from the Jazz EV. Perhaps it's from a different presentation?
If you see the blue dots in hybrid mode, it has 2 directions from the generator, one direction goes to power the motor, the other direction to charge the battery. It's the same ehev system on Jazz.


Quote:
The 3rd pic I've posted has a mistake in it. It says clutch engaged but shows power flowing through. It should say clutch disengaged. I may be wrong, but in conventional vehicles, if clutch is engaged, the vehicle freewheels. When the clutch is disengaged, the engine drives the car. Unless the terminology reverses in hybrid tech?
I think you are mistaking clutch engagement with pedal operation. Even in conventional cars when the clutch pedal is pressed the clutch disengages, when you release the clutch pedal the clutch engages, when clutch is disengaged(pedal pressed) it coasts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
In engine mode the petrol engine drives the wheels but also charges the battery pack. you can clearly see in this mode a gear lock symbol appears on the dash and the power flow changes showing engine to wheels as well as wheels to battery for charging.
If I am not wrong in engine mode, battery charging does not happen, I guess it's battery and motor assisting the engine.

Last edited by SKC-auto : 3rd May 2022 at 14:58.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 15:54   #59
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Good that we finally have a Hybrid that can be had for less than half a crore. But with a boot that is so small, this will not make sense for many. It simply can not make an out-of-district family trip with that boot space. Only people with a long daily work commute can consider this.

In my opinion, a differential cost of 2 lakhs on road over petrol Honda City will be justified considering the ADAS tech and the hybrid. Honda anyway needs to rebuild some lost reputation. So they better price this sensibly.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 16:05   #60
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

The efficiency and running costs seem to be at par with the diesel City. So, I feel the pricing should also be at par with the diesel City.
Slowly Honda can axe the diesel engine and in place provide only petrol and petrol hybrid options.
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