[ACM]

Congratulations Psbali

When has delivery been promissed, which colour?

Are roof rails available for the Aria . (dont mean the Roof Carrier) but just the two rails - it would make the Aria look more sporty.

Are any other original accessories anounced by TATA?

[psbali]

hey thanks guys for all your wishes .. sadly the roof rails are not being provided.. but I do agree with you that they will give the car an overall aggressive and cool look.. and they at the moment are saying that the delivery of the cars would start after 4 weeks. Really dont know how true is that but some one in this thread has said that the gurgaon dealership is ready to deliver their showroom display model on the same day and bookings after 10 days.. Will update you guys with the delivery and initial experience first thing.. Looking forward to really starting a new thread for initial ownership soon

Oh finally I got the edit option.. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Hey cant see any edit option so going in for multiple posts.. I sorta missed answering 2 questions from ACM. Hope there is nothing wrong with it.
I am really very confused with the color. I really liked the night shade black and my dad liked the sardina red color but have as of now asked them to book the sliver one. As we have been buying only lights colors as maintaining dark colors is a task and would be even more problematic as our driver is on an indefinite leave.. But the heart really wants to go for either nights shade or grey.. Though my dad wouldnt have any problem with any color that i choose.. I guess a dark color would definitely look classier as compared to silver or white on an Aria. Though I am open to suggestions.. Would really appreciate them.

And as for other accessories the Aria being loaded up to the brim I really would be surprised if in case there are more options for personalizing the car apart from their normal list..

Hey cant see any edit option so going in for multiple posts.. I sorta missed answering 2 questions from ACM. Hope there is nothing wrong with it.
I am really very confused with the color. I really liked the night shade black and my dad liked the sardina red color but have as of now asked them to book the sliver one. As we have been buying only lights colors as maintaining dark colors is a task and would be even more problematic as our driver is on an indefinite leave.. But the heart really wants to go for either nights shade or grey.. Though my dad wouldnt have any problem with any color that i choose.. I guess a dark color would definitely look classier as compared to silver or white on an Aria. Though I am open to suggestions.. Would really appreciate them.

And as for other accessories the Aria being loaded up to the brim I really would be surprised if in case there are more options for personalizing the car apart from their normal list..

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by suman

But to summarily dismiss AWD & a host of other features (including why ESP cannot be turned off) doesn't really make much sense to me.

Oh & yes - if TML were to actually listen & reduce the price by 2.5 lacs & take away the 4x4, the TML bashers (I simply love this term ) would immediately pile on & ask why the heck they would buy a TATA over an Innova when it didn't even have a 4x4. LOL - with TML, you simply can't win

PS: I couldn't figure why the AWD alone would increase crowding at the service centers??

Except the two features - can turn off 4x4 and can't turn off ESP, I have no major grouse against the Aria.

I agree - TML bashers will never let the Aria win if given half a chance!

Not that AWD would increase crowding! More complex a car is, the longer TASS will take to figure out what's wrong. So the more cars that remain parked at a TASS, the more the traffic jam!

[PaddleShifter]

Many pages added in just 1-2 days. GTO's reviews always fill pages after pages within days. We need to keep reading them every 1 hour to keep updates of current happenings and discussions.

Well, as I've read some pages superficially, I see that Aria is being called overpriced by about 1.5-2lacs.
Come on guys. Features and gadgets can't be added for free.
The level of equipment in Aria does make it VFM.

-There is no point comparing it with Innova.

- If TATA's service centers are crowded because of nanos and Indicas(as per one post above on page16 I think), then what about Maruti's A.S.S. network with all those Marutis, Altos, A-Stars, Swifts, Zen, WagonR, Ritz, Esteems, Dzires etc.

- Even I had said on page 1 that Aria might not have significant impact on Fortuner's sales. Not because it is TATA or Fortuner is Toyota, but because Fortuner's road presence and looks is good enough to make it a very good deal even at a higher price and lower equipment. BUT, lets see how Aria performs when its seen in action on our roads.
Aria's rear end is not very good looking and a bit Xylo like but again that is subjective.

@psbali- Congrats! Hoping to see your ownership thread with lots of pics. Wishing you Happy buying and ownership experience ahead.
The pics Pawan Kadam has posted a few pages back look great. I think Aria looks great in that color.

[suman]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

More complex a car is, the longer TASS will take to figure out what's wrong.

True, but from what I know, selected staff were sent to Pune quite a while ago for Aria specific training. This included not only the Service Advisors but the Technicians as well. As I mentioned on FB, the complexity of the car was keeping some of them awake at nights but I think they should be able to, by & large, handle the Aria.

I'm sure the Company would be standing behind them for any complex issues - after all, it looks like they're pulling out all stops for this one. Personally, I would be keeping my ears open for at least six to eight months to decide for myself if TML have actually been able to exorcise the "Poor QC" Ghost or if it continues to haunt them!!

Originally Posted by architect

The treatment meted out to one at an ASC is also dependant on one's relationship with them and customer's attitude.

I agree with this 100% - once a relationship is built, one gets the same treatement irrespective of the car one drives. I hope that if I ever drive into Autolinks in an Indica Vista, I will receive the same royal treatment I get today. However, in the initial stages, I guess, in a crowded TASS, the chances of a Safari getting precedence over a Vista does exist.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by architect

Is this the case everywhere? From all the TASC I have seen in the last two-and-a-half years in Delhi NCR, I have always felt there is no difference in the way an Indica DLE owner is treated and a Safari VX owner is treated. In any case, 80% of Safaris come to the TASC with their drivers, not owners. I believe the Aria could have a similar situation.

The treatment meted out to one at an ASC is also dependant on one's relationship with them and customer's attitude. I always feel I get better treatment than a regular Safari Owner at my FTASC.

By royal treatment I do not mean that they should roll out red carpets LOL but something little subtle.Well I do not know about NCR but here in Bangalore I have been to two T.A.S.S and found the following

1. No need for any prior booking for small issues / running repairs you can drive in any time
2. Service Advisors and mechanics are different
3. Almost everything is covered under warranty where I heard from friends with Indica that they were not so accommodating.
4. Lots of issues which could have been denied warranty are accommodated for example once I filled adulterated Diesel blue in colour ( Kerosene as per A.S.S) and they cleaned the tank ,HP fuel lines etc. free of cost and just charged me for 10Liter Diesel they filled in at market rate.

So I would expect that Aira customers should be getting lot more then what a 9 -14 lakh vehicle gets

[GTO]

Originally Posted by suman

I feel the Fortuner is also horrendously overpriced.

Riding on the same platform as the Innova, what does the Fortuner have to justify that price tag? A 3.0 litre engine, a 4x4 transfer case with the associated stuff that comes with it, anything else? Anything to justify the price differential? I don't see any.

Can't argue with that! I agree with you, in that the differential value over the Innova is minimal, except for the SUV body style, more power & 4x4. For someone looking at sheer utility, the Innova can do everything the Fortuner can (except handle sand ) at 1/2 the price & the same famed reliability. In fact, and I clearly mentioned in my Fortuner review, the Innova with captain seats is actually more comfortable than the Fortuner.

Not to support this practice, but cost+ pricing is yesterday. Today, manufacturers charge according to what *they think* the market will pay. Example : The difference in manufacturing cost of a C & E Class is 15%, but in the showrooms its as much as 60%. The same between the M800 / Alto, or Santro / i10, i10 / i20 and Dzire / SX4 are FAR lesser than their showroom prices would have you believe. Tata & Mahindra aren't saints either. A 14 year old SUV (i.e. Safari) is still priced at 10 - 13 lakhs OTR, while Mahindra's 50 year old ancient Commander / Armada / Bolero etc. sell for 8 lakhs. Again, my point is, cost of production has little relevance to the ex-showroom price today. Tata has not priced the Aria Pride at 17 lakhs OTR because it costs 15 lakhs to make; it's because they think there is a section of the market that will pay that price.

Originally Posted by mxx

But I cant get it off my mind that in markets were both innova and fortuner is sold, the difference between prices for both is under Rs. 1 Lakh

Really? Which market? Links please.

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

The Aria features and pricing makes the Endevour look puny.

Actually, except for the Skoda Superb, they make every sub-30 lakh car look naked. Tata must be banking on this feature set....after all, the features had a large role to play in the success of the i20, Laura, Superb etc. At the same time, I might add, features did nothing to cars like the Punto & Linea. I give full marks to Tata for the Aria's contemporary nature, its equipment level and safety.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

GTO, I don't quite see why at all the Aria should ever be compared to a Fortuner, as is being frequently done.

Hey, don't shoot the respondent . I was merely replying to a question n.devnath put forth.

Does one compare the Xylo with the Cruze, though Xylo's pre-launch ads said it is the end of the road for all sedans?

I find the Xylo's sedan-replacement positioning as funny as Tata's crossover marketing.

So CR-Vs and Captivas are driven off-road and Endeavours used to drag race on highways.

Actually, the concept of "multi-utility" takes a broader scope in India, where even a Maruti Alto - the only car within a family of 5 - takes an multi-role (weekend highway car, daily drive to work, fun-to-drive holidays, airport runs etc.).

But that does not take away form the fact that the Borg Warner "Torque on Demand" AWD that's installed in the Aria is utterly unnecessary and just adds to cost, weight, complexity

Well, it is a marketing differentiator. Without it, Tata would never have been able to use the "crossover" nomenclature (which is still out of place BTW). And the AWD in the Aria will be used just as often as the 4x4 / AWD mechanisms in other vehicles like the Fortuner / Yeti / Endeavour etc. Occasional slush & sand, if at all. Tata isn't alone here.

Tata themselves silently acknowledge the fact by providing a switch to change over to 4x2, but no switch to turn off ESP, which every enthusiastic driver would love to do once in a while (is it lack of trust in the customer or the vehicle? Are Aria's dynamics SO bad as to merit full-time electronic surveillance to prevent it from toppling, skidding, oversteering or spinning?)

I beg to differ. It's like saying Mercedes doesn't have great crumple zones, hence they provide 6 airbags! And ANY vehicle with a tall center of gravity is prone to toppling. I've seen Sumos, Safaris, Scorpios and even Fortuners lying turtle on the highway. Tata needs a pat on the back for providing such a long list of safety features in their vehicle. Considering that it meets all European safety norms, the Aria is probably safer than the outdated Endeavour, or the built-for-Asia Fortuner in a severe crash. You only realise the value of safety features when they actually save your life in a headon collision.

On the ESP switch off button : In a market as varied as India, it's best to play it "safe". 1 in 50,000 Aria owners would want to make the rear end "slide" out of enthusiasm. It's not worth the risk or effort.

Originally Posted by Manas

Thanks GTO for all the replies and corrections. However, in 2005, I actually got to sit inside both the Aria coupe and the (then) Indiva(?) concept (don't ask how ).
Please visit THIS link to see that the design for the (now) Aria was more of less (at least the shell and major styling lines) were done 5 years ago.
Hence, my mention that the Tatas started working on this X-over design way back.
As far as I remembered, this was unveiled at the Geneva motorshow as far back as 2002 ! (confirmatory link)(Ctrl+F for "Indiva"). When you convert it to English, it says that the concept vehicle had sunroof and 2 rows of seats. Guess the roof didn't stand the test of time.

team-bhp even discussed this "blue car" here in 2006. (and a couple of other places too).

(press release from 2002) New 7-Seater concept unveiled. I guess they kept the basic design on hold till 2006 to start the phase 1 of the actual detailing work.

Originally Posted by Trapezio

@GTO

I know for sure that Tata had started the work of Aria before 2006. Perhaps prior to 2006 the project was still under evaluation. In fact the X2 platform work was mid way by 2005!

Accepted. Maybe the actual development work then started in 2006? Because Tata clearly mentioned the mid-2006 period to us.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

I agree - TML bashers will never let the Aria win if given half a chance!

I disagree. Take a look at the Manza thread; the response was overwhelmingly positive.

[longhorn]

You walk into a Toyota service centre and you need to see their customer care to believe. Buying a new car is a one time activity for the next 4-5 years for the majority, but service centre visits are much more frequent. When you shell out 15 lakhs plus on a car, you would expect decent (not royal) teratment at the A.S.S. too. Hope the dealers wake up to this reality, else Tata will have a hard time moving this one. The electronic wizardy is the icing on the cake. The product itself needs to prove its reliability first, else the electronics itself are of no particular use. The Tatas have put huge efforts in making this product a success. I sincerely hope that the dealers do their part too.

[suman]

Originally Posted by GTO

Not to support this practice, but cost+ pricing is yesterday. Today, manufacturers charge according to what *they think* the market will pay. Example : The difference in manufacturing cost of a C & E Class is 15%, but in the showrooms its as much as 60%. The same between the M800 / Alto, or Santro / i10, i10 / i20 and Dzire / SX4 are FAR lesser than their showroom prices would have you believe. Tata & Mahindra aren't saints either. A 14 year old SUV (i.e. Safari) is still priced at 10 - 13 lakhs OTR, while Mahindra's 50 year old ancient Commander / Armada / Bolero etc. sell for 8 lakhs.

I agree with you completely. Its totally a concept of what the market can/will bear. That's why I mentioned -

Originally Posted by suman

And now, Hyundai is looking at the Fortuner's pricing, factoring in the fact that the Santa Fe will be a CBU & fixing its price in X Trail territory.

When I think back a few years, the old Endy 4x4 cost more than the Safari VX 4x4 but, not all that much more. Four years down the line, look at the difference! Yes, Yes, I know that the 3 litre on the Endy is a killer (the 2.2 on the Safari is a decent machine as well) & they do have the Auto box but simply not enough in my opinion to justify the price differential now. Its just a question of what the market will bear for a Ford vs a TATA...........and they've still done nothing AFA the middle row seating nightmare is concerned

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by longhorn

You walk into a Toyota service centre and you need to see their customer care to believe. Buying a new car is a one time activity for the next 4-5 years for the majority, but service centre visits are much more frequent. When you shell out 15 lakhs plus on a car, you would expect decent (not royal) teratment at the A.S.S. too. Hope the dealers wake up to this reality, else Tata will have a hard time moving this one. The electronic wizardy is the icing on the cake. The product itself needs to prove its reliability first, else the electronics itself are of no particular use. The Tatas have put huge efforts in making this product a success. I sincerely hope that the dealers do their part too.

What makes you think TATA A.S.C are not good.

First 2 services for my Safari with Manipal was a sad experience , but after that the next 3 services with Prerna has been a revelation

half my friends or relatives own a Safari or the Indica, say maybe around 75+ TATA's. No one has ever complained about the laxity of TATA Service. Every one has been getting a proper treatment and the car getting its due care.

Its only a handful of TATA A.S.C giving troubles, but thats the case with most of other Dealers around the country.

Sorry if this is

But the TATA Mindblock is just a wrong perception. I would request NON-TATA owners to refrain from giving out views without First hand experience.

[ACM]

PSbali

Night Shade black looks best to me presently. followed by the other Black, followed by Sardina Red and the golden silver rather than the plain silver.

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

What makes you think TATA A.S.C are not good.

First 2 services for my Safari with Manipal was a sad experience , but after that the next 3 services with Prerna has been a revelation

half my friends or relatives own a Safari or the Indica, say maybe around 75+ TATA's. No one has ever complained about the laxity of TATA Service. Every one has been getting a proper treatment and the car getting its due care.

Its only a handful of TATA A.S.C giving troubles, but thats the case with most of other Dealers around the country.

Sorry if this is

But the TATA Mindblock is just a wrong perception. I would request NON-TATA owners to refrain from giving out views without First hand experience.

Though I do not own a Tata product, I had extensively driven my cousin's Indica and my F-I-L's Vista QJD. You might find Tata's service experience to be exceptional probably because you might not have had the Toyota experience (no offence meant). I have experienced both the Tata service and the Toyota service in Kerala, and frankly speaking, the Toyota experience is a class apart.

I had the bad fortune to go to receive my F-I-L's brand new Vista, and to keep is short, the experience was just horrible. I like the product, but the experience at the dealer was the pits. After making full payment for the vehicle and having it alloted to us, the SE tried to sell the very same vehicle to another customer, and mentioned to us that the vehicle we selected was having engine trouble so we should pick another one. After all this tamasha, he gave us the very same piece that he had mentioned to be defective earlier. If this had happened at a Maruti dealer, the dealership would not exist today. I don't think that anyone shelling out 15 big ones would appreciate this kind of a treatment at the dealer's end.

OT: I have the greatest respect for RNT.

[Sheel]

If we can leave our product/brand biasness aside and contribute positively, it shall be of immense help to one and all.

I know am OT here, but when you have biasness, it shows up rudely.

Peace

[damodar]

Difference between the top end innova and base Aria is 65000 ex showroom in Hyderabad. Now does this justify a full time 4wd,bigger tyres almost Safari ground clearance of 200mm, tougher suspension and a boot sufficient for 6 people if not 7. Now if we assume a 2wd Aria will be cheaper by 1.1 lak this will be cheaper by innova top end by 45000. Will this amount be a sufficient incentive then to go for Aria maybe the sales will increase by 20-30 per cent but the big tyres and extra ground clearance will be wasted.

[GTO]

Just a random thought : It'll be much easier for Tata to have a dedicated service advisor who picks up the Aria from the customer's house, and drops it off after a service. Advantage:

a) Much easier to implement vis a vis create dedicated service bays etc.

b) Customer doesn't have to potentially wait in que, share space with "cheaper" Indica owners etc. Customer doesn't "see" crowded, packed and chaotic service centers either.

c) Cost effective. The Aria isn't a mass volume product. It's not like there will be a 100 Arias visiting the same service center every day. Most dealerships can easily manage with 2 dedicated Aria service advisors. The HR capacity should already in place, it's only a matter of segregation.

d) Some feel good stuff can be thrown in : Box of chocolates upon vehicle return, service advisor's personal cell number given to customer etc.

End result = customer feels good about this personalised service. And home pickup / drop off is SO much more convenient. Tata can well manage a premium experience with minimal financial outflow.

I'll forward the suggestion to TML.