[Perakath]

Pavan_Kadam and gowda79,

All I said was that the side profile of the vehicle looks like the side profile of a Matador van. (Or perhaps vice versa.) To me that's an undeniable truth, and nothing to get offended about. There's certainly no need to roll about laughing after quipping something which I can't understand.

You seem to think the Matador deserves all the respect of a bullock-cart. Some people are interested in them as vehicles in their own right: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...r307-vans.html

Unlike you two I've never had the chance to see a VW Microbus, and I'd never heard of it before I found this thread. I'm glad you consider it a timeless classic. But please don't be so quick to see offence in innocuous statements. At any rate, I apologise for my remarks.

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by Perakath

Immaculately maintained. A joy to look at! I've never seen one in person, I don't think. The side profile of the yellow one on this page looks a bit like a Matador though!

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Thank you sir for calling a timeless classic a matador.

There's a saying in kannada "Mangana kayalli Manikkya"

Actually, it's quite natural for the uninitiated to confuse the side profile of a Matador with that of a VW Microbus. And Perakath has admitted to not knowing much about them and also having never seen one in the metal. Importantly, he's liking them it seems as he gets acquainted with the Microbus here.

One can be forgiven for confusing between the two shapes. There are some vague similarities when one is not really clued in on these vehicles.

Moreover, the Matador is also of German origins. Made by Hanomag-Henschel and called the Hanomag-Henschel Matador (across the different iterations of their F series). It was made under licence by Bajaj Tempo (the Tempo word also was a Hanomag term, including it's use in the name of the Hanseat Tempo from which originated the queer lurching, smoke-belching three-wheeled Tempo on Indian roads in the past - some probably are still in service in smaller towns) before the business split gave Bajaj Tempo to the Firodias. Although there used to be the F of the Firodia's logo prominently in the front, it was only called the Matador thereafter. Now of course the Firodia's commercial vehicle outfit is called Force Motors, which is another story! And if someone wants he can pick up the word 'Tempo' and bring the link with some American cars in to the picture. Should make an interesting diversion, but since it's just that, OT, I'll stick to the Matador!

So, coming back to the Hanomag Matador, although it has never been a cult vehicle like the VW, it still commands a fair collectible value abroad. In some western countries where it was hardly sold, it's value is in fact much higher than even a split-window. For us of course it's so common, hence the perception, tinged with a certain amount of disdain. But, how many of the first generation Bajaj Tempo Matador does one know of in existence now?! The round shape one, maybe considered ugly also by some, is what I'm refering to. And also, even the new shape Matador that most of us are familiar with now, was souped up as a personal transporter, like the Microbus, by quite a few well-heeled Indian in the 70s and early 80s. Many would recall that the late Sanjay Gandhi used one too as a daily driver, himself at the wheel. but that's one topic I'll refrain from adding on further here, many of you would know why.

Pawan, your VW is looking great though. I should have said it in your thread. Maybe I'll drop by there and say it too.

What does the saying in kannada "Mangana kayalli Manikkya," if you don't mind translating it for those not versed in the lingo, mean? I have a feeling it's something interesting and I would like to keep it in my small selection of the chosen ones of various languages, provided I know the stakes!!

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by Prabal

Actually, it's quite natural for the uninitiated to confuse the side profile of a Matador with that of a VW Microbus. And Perakath has admitted to not knowing much about them and also having never seen one in the metal. Importantly, he's liking them it seems as he gets acquainted with the Microbus here.

One can be forgiven for confusing between the two shapes. There are some vague similarities when one is not really clued in on these vehicles.

Well said Prabal. I do see a lone 'old shape' Matador single cap pick up regularly in Pune doing sterling service as a goods carrier. MHF regd, period sun visor et al. One absolutely mint van would do school pick up and drop duty, I actually requested my folks to move me to that van, they didnt take me seriously though.

Some brochures here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/803395-post30.html

And lets get back on track now, eh?

[Perakath]

Wow-- T-BHP is unparalleled at showing me how little I know about vehicles

Thanks prabal and karlos. And pavan and gowda, again-- no offense meant! Great to see good-looking vehicles from another time.

[harit]

I read the last few threads with interest.
The fact is that the VW baywindow does have more than a passing resemblence to the Matador van, only optically from afar, mind you. The shape is of a rounded shoe box, the front screens appear similar, and both have 4 wheels.
There is no arguement about which is a better product and more desireable. It is just like saying when someone resembles a known person, say Nixon, he does not mean that he is crooked, it is the physical similarities which are being hilighted. So why should Perakath be apologetic? He has not been rude, harsh or insulting. Pavan has done a fantastic job, well documented, but all may not appreciate till they know what is involved, the difficulties of sourcing parts, the moneies spent. My wife feels that I collect 'Katchra", so be it. Different folks have a different take, and some come on the forum to get the knowledge, they may blunder a bit here and there, it happens, just forget it.

About Prabals's note, the origin of the Matador started sometime with Tempo, Videl Tempo & Soehne (Sons). They made that infamour G1200 Tempo of Pune with the VW engine. Just before the war, and definitely after the war, they made the three wheeler which Bajaj made later on. Somewhere the name Hanseat came into the picture, this name was formed in the bonnet over the front wheel. In India this was also seen. These transporters were very much part of the economic revival in Germany, cheap transport. And after they expired, the engine was thrown out and a horse was hitched in front. Later came the 4 wheeler Tempo, this has a 2 stroke engine. This was also brought in by Bajaj. Later on we saw the Matador with a normal engine, not two stroke. There was one original German Tempo in Mumbai, it was grey coloured, MRS registered, I saw it around 1980. Not seen again. These Tempo's with their 2 stroke engine always sounded as if they were missing. And the build quality in India was horrible. I believe they never treated the body for anything, the doors were always rewelded into place. Matador got into hanomag Henschel which was taken over by Mercedes.
Quite a few of these old Tempo's in Germany were converted into mobile stores, flower shops etc.
If only VW vans were also produced in India, we would have been much better off!

[RandomUsername]

In Mahableshwar, someone asked us if our bus was a modified Matador!

[vw splitscreen]

I really dont think anyone would have thought it was a Matadoor with a big VW badge on the front of your bus

[RandomUsername]

Originally Posted by vw splitscreen

I really dont think anyone would have thought it was a Matadoor with a big VW badge on the front of your bus

They probably hadn't ever seen the VW logo before

[vw splitscreen]

Yet another VW SplitScreen panel van ,we found in Goa a few months ago,the owner we was told was living in Italy.Lots of work needed on this one.
The rear lights convertion and the side windows that had been put in needs a lot to be desired,The front windows were just held in place with some tape,and lots of new metal needed in the usual places.
This Panel sadly is in need of a resto

[harit]

Originally Posted by vw splitscreen

I really dont think anyone would have thought it was a Matadoor with a big VW badge on the front of your bus

I believe that the Matadors first had round lights, rectangular lights came later. Imagine these headlights to be round, the it would look closer to a Microbus.

Cheers harit

[RandomUsername]

Originally Posted by vw splitscreen

Yet another VW SplitScreen panel van ,we found in Goa a few months ago,the owner we was told was living in Italy.Lots of work needed on this one.
The rear lights convertion and the side windows that had been put in needs a lot to be desired,The front windows were just held in place with some tape,and lots of new metal needed in the usual places.
This Panel sadly is in need of a resto

Nice! where exactly in Goa is it? never seen a panel van in India before.

[adilkhan5]

I have had my van compared to a Matador many a time!!

[Perakath]

^^ Talk about flower power! V cool.

(a) What sort of engines do these vans/buses run?

(b) Any particular reason why they seem to be concentrated on the west coast? Surely it's not a fallout of Goa's hippie days?

[SuperSelect]

Guys, the earlier avatar of the Matador in India, was something called the "Viking" .Correct me if I'm wrong- This is the one which had the round headlights and crescent moon grille.. quite cute actually !

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by SuperSelect

Guys, the earlier avatar of the Matador in India, was something called the "Viking" .Correct me if I'm wrong- This is the one which had the round headlights and crescent moon grille.. quite cute actually !

Wow Ravi, you've put me on Cloud Nine with these pix. Viking is right for the early ones, wow again, that's super. Now I seem to remember that I'd seen the moniker on the vehicles here but I'd forgotten that (and I also seem to recollect now that Bajaj brought it back on a scooter or moped or three wheeler years later, not too sure, someone tell me). Thanks pal, this is uber cool.