[prithm]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

Hold on! emotion set aside, you must know that it is a bailable offense unless Lady is drunk. Loss of life is always cruel, in this case its clear that Lady is not drunk. With available info Its not possible to conclude that lady did it deliberate.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I feel it's pointless getting all emotional and taking sides here. First of all, like earlier pointed, the lady who was driving wasn't drunk, she just seemed to have lost control and I am not arguing that it isn't unfortunate but I'm not sure one ought to be locked up and treated harshly for a bit of bad luck.

The rule of law is straight forward as per constitution which guarantee's Article 14 and 15 to every human born in this country.

BUT

There is a small hidden Article called Article 15(3) which is a blatant violation of Article 14 and 15 and nullifies both of them.

SO

In the case that we are discussing, the "Lady" has been granted bail after mowing down 2 lives. Drunk or not drunk is not something that a judge can decide within seconds. Until a clear cut health detail is obtained from a Government Doctor, "Accussed" who states that his/her health was the reason for the accident has to be kept in custody until production of Medico Legal Certificate. This is the rule of thumb and applied as a blanket for all arrests in cases involving "health" as a reason.

I guess few of you might have remembered, a "Lady" was granted bail when she caused a head on collision with a vehicle that killed a man and kid. DUI was the main reason.

The court granted bail for following reasons:

1. She is a lady.


Accident News

http://indianexpress.com/article/ind...ths-in-mumbai/

Bail News

https://thelogicalindian.com/news/ju...r-license-car/

This is India.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by prithm

In the case that we are discussing, the "Lady" has been granted bail after mowing down 2 lives. Drunk or not drunk is not something that a judge can decide within seconds. Until a clear cut health detail is obtained from a Government Doctor, "Accussed" who states that his/her health was the reason for the accident has to be kept in custody until production of Medico Legal Certificate. This is the rule of thumb and applied as a blanket for all arrests in cases involving "health" as a reason.

How do you know that a medical examination was not conducted? I am not well versed with the law and I am not arguing that the Lady's license should not be revoked or atleast she should be made to prove her skills in order to retain the driving license.

BUT I still blame the government for forcing the victims to be in such close unprotected proximity to cars travelling at high speeds (fast lane) and in this case, one that lost control. Heck our roads are as dangerous for pedestrians as the 1955 LeMans was for its spectators. In this case you didn't even need a 200kph flaming ball splitting debris. An out of control i10 driven by a lady was enough to do the trick

[binand]

Originally Posted by prithm

There is a small hidden Article called Article 15(3) which is a blatant violation of Article 14 and 15 and nullifies both of them.

I didn't quite understand what you are trying to say here. Article 14 ("equality before law") is absolute; there are no diluting clauses to it elsewhere in the constitution. And to be honest, I don't see the relevance of 14 or 15 ("prohibition of discrimination") in this case.

[n_naik]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Why the hell are people expected to cross main roads like this? Why aren't more signals incorporated just for people to cross these roads? Why aren't there more skywalks? It is the government's fault that the mother and daughter were forced to await their fate precariously on that divider yet no one is bothered about that.

But the car is not supposed to be on the divider either !!!

The car is supposed to be on the road and everything else is supposed to be off the road. The car was there where it was not supposed to be. And that caused this whole thing.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by n_naik

But the car is not supposed to be on the divider either !!!

Yes you have got that right on! It's called an accident. Now when we know that accidents are more likely to occur at high speeds, why force pedestrians to straddle two fast lanes in order to cross a main road? This loss of life would not have occurred IMO if pedestrian safety was inculcated into road infrastructure and planning.

People make so much fuss over safety in cars these days. We can never have another Jaguar E-Type or any such slick car because of the legal requirements for the bonnet to have a certain ammount of clearance from the engine in order to aid pedestrian safety. Now regardless of the fact that our market does not seem to care about these things, car manufacturers are still being forced to oblige and incorporate certain elements for pedestrian safety. What is the point of it all if the government is going to promote pedestrians standing between two fast lanes? Divider is not some magical safe-zone. It is there just to prevent vehicles from entering opposing flow of traffic. That job was done aptly. Are you trying to say that this is how pedestrians must be expected to cross roads and that if we have built roads for cars to drive on, pedestrians don't need an equivalent to walk/cross roads on?

[n_naik]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Yes you have got that right on! It's called an accident. Now when we know that accidents are more likely to occur at high speeds, why force pedestrians to straddle two fast lanes in order to cross a main road? This loss of life would not have occurred IMO if pedestrian safety was inculcated into road infrastructure and planning.

Well, while I agree on the pedestrian safety, all I can say is,
"The pedestrians standing on the divider did not induce this accident". It was caused due to poor driving skills. As long as we do not improve the driving skills of the driver, no infrastructure can prevent such mishaps (be it the modern car or the dedicated pedestrian crossing).

We have to remember that it would still be an accident if there were no people on the divider. An accident in any form is bad.

[vivek95]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

This loss of life would not have occurred IMO if pedestrian safety was inculcated into road infrastructure and planning.

This loss of life would not have occurred if only the i10 did not come crashing down at such high speeds. It can be clearly seen in the CCTV footage, the speed at which the i10 was driven within the city limits as compared to other vehicles on the same stretch. I agree partially with you though regarding pedestrians crossing at unauthorized places on the road. But let's not be that insensitive towards the victims in this case particularly where prima facie the car was seen coming at high speeds. Period !

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by n_naik

Well, while I agree on the pedestrian safety, all I can say is,
"The pedestrians standing on the divider did not induce this accident". It was caused due to poor driving skills.

Well you started your post off with "BUT" like as if I don't think poor driving skills are the cause for this accident. However, when it comes to the loss of life, I feel the government needs to share responsibility with the driver on this. These are roads. Not racetracks where only the most skilled can drive. I am sure you have got a couple of members in your family who don't drive too well just as I have a few in mine as well. Is it really necessary to throw pedestrians standing in harms way into the mix when our roads are filled with such lack of talent?

Originally Posted by n_naik

As long as we do not improve the driving skills of the driver, no infrastructure can prevent such mishaps (be it the modern car or the dedicated pedestrian crossing).

Err...yes. Had there been a skywalk on this road and had the pedestrians used it, the loss of life would definitely have been prevented.

Originally Posted by vivek95

This loss of life would not have occurred if only the i10 did not come crashing down at such high speeds. It can be clearly seen in the CCTV footage, the speed at which the i10 was driven within the city limits as compared to other vehicles on the same stretch.

Have you personally gone and measured the speed yourself? Honestly to me it does not seem like the car was going that much faster than the rest of the traffic (I have analyzed the footage myself and based my conclusion on the time it takes each vehicle prior, to cross a certain distance on the screen). The i10 was going slightly faster than most of the vehicles before it. Fact is even if the car were travelling at the speed limit which it is quite possible it was, the victims would still have met their grave since they are standing where the divider begins and a car tends to carry quite some force with it even at what you would consider slow speeds like 30kph.

Originally Posted by vivek95

I agree partially with you though regarding pedestrians crossing at unauthorized places on the road. But let's not be that insensitive towards the victims in this case particularly where prima facie the car was seen coming at high speeds. Period !

I think I have made my stance pretty clear. Never said I support the actions of the driver, nor did I say it is the fault of the victims. I am saying that along with the driver, authorities also need to be taken to court as this is not how one should expect people to cross a road. It is basic common sense that they are in harms way if they are made to cross a road where vehicles weighing around a tonne are carrying great momentum with them. A simple skywalk could save many lives. These are called precautions and if I pay taxes, I expect the authorities to take these measures to ensure everyone's safety.

[n_naik]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

These are roads. Not racetracks where only the most skilled can drive. I am sure you have got a couple of members in your family who don't drive too well just as I have a few in mine as well. Is it really necessary to throw pedestrians standing in harms way into the mix when our roads are filled with such lack of talent?

Gone are the days when such incompetency on the part of drivers were accepted. Now everyone expects the drivers to be competent enough. If the new Motor Act amendments are anything to go by, even the Govt is not ready to give any leeway regarding this. The fine for even the minor mistakes are extremely high. It's high time the drivers improved their skills.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by n_naik

Gone are the days when such incompetency on the part of drivers were accepted. Now everyone expects the drivers to be competent enough. If the new Motor Act amendments are anything to go by, even the Govt is not ready to give any leeway regarding this. The fine for even the minor mistakes are extremely high. It's high time the drivers improved their skills.

Umm okay you didn't disagree with me though that you may have a couple of in your terms "incompetent" drivers in your family. So its high time we all realise ARAI mileage figures and Driving Licenses issued by the RTO don't mean squat.

Some can choose to stick their head in the sand, but the others ought to focus on implementing safety measures like a Skywalk for pedestrians to cross main roads on. Heck that's the same principles that a divider is based on; they can simply paint a double yellow line and call it a day and say that's that no? BUT some genius figured out that we live in the real world not the fantasy one concocted by our mind and that things do go wrong, thus we have the divider. Now why is it so difficult to grasp that the authorities need to extend that same logic a little further to ensure the safety of pedestrians?

[vivek95]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Have you personally gone and measured the speed yourself? Honestly to me it does not seem like the car was going that much faster than the rest of the traffic (I have analyzed the footage myself and based my conclusion on the time it takes each vehicle prior, to cross a certain distance on the screen). The i10 was going slightly faster than most of the vehicles before it. Fact is even if the car were travelling at the speed limit which it is quite possible it was, the victims would still have met their grave since they are standing where the divider begins and a car tends to carry quite some force with it even at what you would consider slow speeds like 30kph.

You need to calm down. No, I haven't measured the speed myself and there is no need for that, come on ! . The i10 not only climbed the divider but went over it for atleast 8-10 metres before coming to a halt. Look at the way the people were launched into air and the distance she came over the divider. There is a difference between having a bumper injury/hit and getting tossed into air, very much correlates with speeds. So, to me that means it was driven above the speed that she could control. What is "slightly" for you is "significantly higher" for me.

Do check this out as well -

Police said that the car was moving at a high speed and did not stop even after hitting a metal bar at the beginning of the median. After the car ran over the five, it came to a halt after it hit a pole a few feet ahead.

Source - https://www.google.co.in/amp/indiane...-4617355/lite/

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by vivek95

You need to calm down. No, I haven't measured the speed myself and there is no need for that, come on ! . The i10 not only climbed the divider but went over it for atleast 8-10 metres before coming to a halt. Look at the way the people were launched into air and the distance she came over the divider. There is a difference between having a bumper injury/hit and getting tossed into air, very much correlates with speeds. So, to me that means it was driven above the speed that she could control. What is "slightly" for you is "significantly higher" for me.

Do check this out as well -

Source - https://www.google.co.in/amp/indiane...-4617355/lite/

I am very much calm. I asked you that because it is very common to see people and police exaggerate speeds since we are not all accurately aware of the forces involved. Police in our country will say anything but the proof lies in analyzing the footage. Running over a metal bar and few meters on a divider does not indicate much to me. These metal bars and dividers in India are not constructed to any strict safety norms like they are in other countries. No scientific measurements are taken into consideration. Just like the under-run bars on the trucks that ply our roads, it is all naam ke vaaste kaam Heck my friend has knocked down a big concrete electric pole travelling at 50kph in an Alto and the cops and community were adamant he had to be doing more than double that even though the impact bourne by the car and the lack of any injury to my friend, proved that he was not travelling that fast. Either way my point was that you are wrong in assuming that I believe the driver is not to blame as I have never stated such before. I clearly stated that my stance is that the authorities are to blame as well. Unless you believe that there is no need for a skywalk or any equivalent to be implemented for pedestrians, I don't see any point in debating this matter further.

[vivek95]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Unless you believe that there is no need for a skywalk or any equivalent to be implemented for pedestrians, I don't see any point in debating this matter further.

Let's agree to disagree on the speed part but I totally second you that there's a need for a proper infrastructure to ensure pedestrian safety. The least we can have is tall dividers with fencing on all roads that are dual carriageways ( apart from preventing unauthorized crossings, beautifies the roads and plants are placed as well ). Pune has many such roads but Baner stretch ( which is important ) has always been ignored. I have been on that road a hell lot of times and always hoped they would increase the height of the divider someday. Sadly, it's the same till date and may be now the authorities would wake up. The stretch from Deccan to Kothrud to Chandni chowk in Pune is another busy stretch which has dividers with very low height.

[venkyhere]

This thread would be much much shorter, and arguments and counter arguments would be much much lesser, if there was a magic potion served.

What is that magic potion ? Two fold.

1) make sure nobody is able to "fake" a proper driving test and just "jugaad-ify" a license. Make the whole "getting a license" to be really difficult. Not scandinavian-difficult, but say, USA or UAE difficult.

2) sell vehicles only to "original" license holders. If vehicle involves in accident, and if the accident is caused due to negligence/DUI, then strict penalty/punishment to "owner" of vehicle, not just the driver.


(1) will need surgical level strictness and monitoring (atleast to the level found in passport offices) and jacked up vigil by the anti-corruption dept (come on, we can't always keep saying - 'this is india, nothing happens here' ; this is one of the areas were targetted fixing of the 10 roots will lead to cleaning up of 1 million trees).

(2) will need stronger laws to ensure 100% compliance from vehicle dealerships. There is no extra information that the dealership needs to provide the RTO, than what they already do. Just that "some photocopy" is not the way to do it.

Considering that vehicle density across the whole population of india is very very less compared to developed countries, the excuse of "india is very populous country, the logistics of handling so much data is huge" is just BS. Look at indian railways, they do a fairly good job (outsourced, yes).

[pixantz]

Everyone needs to calm down here. This thread and all it's subscribers is beginning to look like a big bunch of bawling babies all crying at once on bowls of spilled milk. But even though all are technically grown up and can find reason behind it all, still surprisingly, nobody wants to even begin to find out why the milk spilled in the first place but everyone is gung-ho and bawling all over the place. What a cacophony.

Nobody is interested to even know or wait to find out the cause as to why in the first place did the car climb on top of those poor people. What was the root cause. What caused the car to be in a place it shouldn't have. And already a couple of pages of the thread have rolled on with every other reason but the real truth. Wow.

Sometimes I wonder what would a non-member think of all bhpians if they stumble on to one of these pages of ours. Man! Just the thought gets me red in the face :banghead: .

Wisen up guys, we're enthusiasts, remember? Not politicians.