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Old 3rd April 2019, 14:04   #91
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

A horrible accident indeed, the worst thing is that innocents have suffered for the crime of their friend.

Such incidents should act as eye openers or alarm bells for us as at some point or other we overestimate our (Car + us) capabilities.

It made me introspect,

I recently drove Mumbai - Pune & back, with family, and did speeds around 120 on some sections, on hind sight with this incident in perspective I would change that and keep it around 90-100 where it feels slow but safe.

Although the car gives an indication about the breaking point, its best to be well within it.

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Old 3rd April 2019, 16:11   #92
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

Whilst I have never heard it called "masking the speed," it is common knowledge that a better car feels slower at a higher speed: a luxury car makes us feel that the car's speed is much lower than it is. A look at the speedometer often surprises. A competent driver knows this and does check the speedometer. This driver was either incompetent, just out for maximum thrills, or both.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 16:22   #93
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

Regardless of whether the speed is at 122 or 147, we as drivers clearly know whether we have crossed the limit pertaining to those conditions (type of road, traffic/people around, a signal ahead, toll booth ahead etc), right?

At least that is what we expect half decent drivers to be aware of. Nothing much can be done if morons sit in the driver's seat!

No point in discussing speed here. Incapable/distracted/careless drivers have caused accidents crawling out of parking lots at 5 km per hour .
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Old 3rd April 2019, 17:14   #94
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

Just asking out of curiosity.

In an automatic, on D mode assuming that the vehicle is travelling downhill at 140,
1. shifting to N will increase the speed, wont it?
2. braking and stability wont be as effective on N as on D?
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Old 3rd April 2019, 18:31   #95
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

Quote:
Originally Posted by beejay View Post
In an automatic, on D mode assuming that the vehicle is travelling downhill at 140,
1. shifting to N will increase the speed, wont it?
2. braking and stability wont be as effective on N as on D?
Yes indeed! By shifting to N we're cutting off the connection between engine and drivetrain thereby effectively abolishing the engine braking hence more braking efforts are required to slow down.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 18:45   #96
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

High speeds are the most common reason for vehicle accidents, especially on Indian roads that are not

1. Built to enable high speeds
2. Have traffic that are not supposed to be there
3. Drivers who don't have training to drive at high-speeds

If that is true, why doesn't the government mandate that any Vehicle in India must have speed limits of 110 KM direct from the manufacturer.

Why allow vehicles to have the capacity to drive at high speeds leaving it to an individual's discretion?
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Old 3rd April 2019, 20:36   #97
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjiRoss View Post
Don't toll booths have cctv cameras? If they did, it may have captured the accident and added some clarity to the theories being floated around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshMachine View Post
If there were cameras installed at the toll booth and if they were functioning too (a BIG if, atleast in India), then that will definitely aid the investigators as to the faulty approach/potential speed of the (now crashed) car, if there was a tyre burst, or if something else (say another car/person on the road) caused the driver to take an evasive manoeuvre at that speed etc.
Got the attached video as Whatsapp forward. Looks genuine to me.
Couldn't upload the mp4, hence zipped it.
Attached Files
File Type: zip VID-20190329-WA0000.zip (177.2 KB, 455 views)
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Old 3rd April 2019, 20:50   #98
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NThe photos in the first post show a TC registration.

IIRC, vehicles are supposed to give intermittent beeps once speed exceeds 80 mph, and continuous beeps beyond 100 or 110 mph.

So, multiple issues, not related to rules, regulations, authorities or government here.

I feel this probably is a case of somebody used to tin-can rattles and their ultra obvious warnings failing to take cues and recognising high speeds.

RIP (rest, not race) to the departed soul. My sympathy to that lady, and the child. And the other injured person. Get back to life soon.

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 3rd April 2019 at 20:51.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 23:08   #99
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by black_rider View Post
Got the attached video as Whatsapp forward. Looks genuine to me.
Couldn't upload the mp4, hence zipped it.
Here you go. Uploaded.


It's a very short clip. I'm not able to figure out if this is indeed the accident.
Also the clip seems to be of the car after it lost control, so difficult to say anything. I'm unable to gauge the speed of the car from this clip.
Any comments on the genuinity of the clip?
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Old 4th April 2019, 07:04   #100
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Question. Why is it necessary to "test" the top speed of any car during a test drive? Is it not better to use the opportunity to get to know the car a bit, it's livability, fit for use rather than documented facts like acceleration/top speed/fuel economy?
When I test drive a potential buy, I use the opportunity to check how the car rides, how it drives, in gear roll on, suspension, ride comfort, passenger comfort, convenience devices etc.
Things like sustained top speed, acceleration etc are already tested and documented by several agencies, road testers and imo it's best to use the short time to see if you can live with the car or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beejay View Post
Just asking out of curiosity.

In an automatic, on D mode assuming that the vehicle is travelling downhill at 140,
1. shifting to N will increase the speed, wont it?
2. braking and stability wont be as effective on N as on D?
It all depends. Some automatics have a brain and actively downshift to simulate engine braking and subsequently slow down the car in D mode. Some automatics allow the car to coast infinitely in D. In either case one must never shift to N when the car is in motion. Even at rest, better to put the car in P mode to prevent untoward motion.

Last edited by Aditya : 4th April 2019 at 08:04. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:13   #101
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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
As the SA and customer build a rapport, the SA has no other choice but to be a sycophant and pander towards the customer's curiosity to over-speed, check its handling, comfort at high speeds etc. This is obviously, very very dangerous, I've seen many test-drive vehicles getting into accidents, and the showroom cannot gauge the driver's skill or ability until after getting into the vehicle - a perfect recipe for risk.

To prevent this, ALL showrooms must make a TD-taker sign a piece of paper with instructions which should also be narrated/translated by the SA accordingly, and the instructions should be - 1) Obey all traffic laws as you would as a car owner 2) Stick to nationally defined legal speeds i.e 80 within city limits and 120 on highways 3) No rash/dangerous driving and 4) When found in violation of the above points, the SA reserves the right to stop the test-drive and drive the vehicle himself back to the dealership.

This may be ever so slightly detrimental for a successful sale to take place, but over time all the customers will comply. An accident will result in much worse things.
A different approach I faced while buying my Octavia last month is that the SA politely asked me if he can drive and demonstrate the "speed" the car can attain.
I had told him that I want to check how the car (1.8 TSI) accelerates. He took me for a test drive and my family was there with me. After doing the normal test drive, he politely asked me if it is okay if he drive and show me the capability.
I was pleasantly surprised by this approach and immediately agreed . I think more dealerships should adopt this approach. I took my car from TAFE Access HSR, Bangalore.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:34   #102
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

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Originally Posted by VaidhiR View Post
The idea is to create awareness in the society that there is no requirement for a sales person tagging along for a test drive. Or a speed limiter for that matter.

Why should a sales person be available during a test drive? Why should there be a speed limiter?

Doesnt the onus lie on the driver to act responsibly, with or without anyone else being present? Doesnt the driver need to be aware of what he is capable of and what the car is capable of?
Simple, your's is an idealistic thought. The one you've quoted is realistic.

There is a reason why OEMs limit their cars to 255 kmph. Now some (Starting with Volvo) are tending towards lower speed limit for their cars. Which is exactly what the others are suggesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaidhiR View Post
I dont think speed limiters are the way to go about it. Awareness is the solution.

- How many times have we observed cars, autos, trucks, motorbikes plying on the wrong side of the road?
- How many times have we observed unbelted occupants in a car?
- How many times do the occupants quickly wear the seatbelt upon seeing the police?
- How many times have we seen cars parked dangerously on the side of the road?
- How many times have we seen car drivers using mobile phone only to put them away when seeing the police?

The point is, the awareness has to be raised about the perils of unsafe driving. People have to realise that driving is a dangerous activity and it can be fatal if necessary precautions are not considered. Campaigns involving videos and posters should be pinned up.

Driving licenses must be issued only after an extensive driving test. Here, in Germany, you cant attend a driving exam without the help of a driving school and putting in minimum hours of driving. And you must pass a theory exam that consists of 30 questions out of a pool of about 2700 questions. A 2018 research by the "highway authority" equivalent, shows a lowering trend of fatality rate as well as accident rate despite having NO SPEED LIMITS. How does one explain that?

https://www.bast.de/BASt_2017/EN/Pub...ident-Data.pdf

Because the drivers are aware of their limit, their car's limit. Which is, once again, awareness.

Which is why I dont think speed limiters are the solution. The onus should be on the driver to drive safe. The driver should be aware of his/her limits. The driver should be made aware of the car's limits. The driver should be aware of his/her surrounding and its influence on his/her driving. And should be made aware that defensive driving, is the safest system that any car can be equipped with.
Sorry I missed this post of your's. I am sorry but this thought process can work for a developed country with a fraction of the population of India. It can definitely work for India as well, but over the next few generations. Like you mentioned, awareness is the prime solution. BUT, it is only a long time solution. It is all but impossible to get the entire country to be aware of and respect the dangers of traffic. Main hindrance being high population->high competition->ignorance of rules to win (life, sales, prestige, money).

Again, it is idealistic to expect what you have said, hence it is something we need to strive for by educating the people around us and most importantly the upcoming generations. But it cannot be a solution for the now.

Last edited by rangakishen : 4th April 2019 at 10:41.
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Old 4th April 2019, 14:27   #103
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjiRoss View Post
It's a very short clip. I'm not able to figure out if this is indeed the accident.
Also the clip seems to be of the car after it lost control, so difficult to say anything. I'm unable to gauge the speed of the car from this clip.
Any comments on the genuinity of the clip?
From the clip, it does not seem like the car is doing insane speeds. More in the range of 65-70 kmph.
  • It is possible the car was going fast in the stretch leading up to the toll booth
  • The driver misjudges the braking distance and brakes hard as he gets closer to the booth
  • The car decelerates but the tyres give away under hard braking,causes the driver to lose control and eventually crashes

Last edited by aah78 : 4th April 2019 at 23:15. Reason: Edited for readability. EDIT: Video removed from quote. Please do not quote videos. Thank you!
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Old 4th April 2019, 14:43   #104
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

As to the sales staff demonstrating performance, it is quite possible that they are no better qualified than the customer. Although at least it wouldn't be their first time in the vehicle.

We should acknowledge a certain human weakness which most of us have probably felt at some time: "come on, let's see what this baby can do!" But most of us probably have the sense to make sure that, at least, we have more than enough clear, straight road space.

I'm not advocating that: just saying, it's human
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Old 4th April 2019, 21:07   #105
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Default Re: High-speed Range Rover Evoque test drive gone wrong; driver dead & passengers injured

Would be interesting to know what car the person doing this test drive usually drives?

If someone is driving a comparatively inferior car ( In all aspects ) to an RR on a daily basis, and one day gets to lay his hands on a TEST Drive exotic, my understanding is that he will get carried away by how this superior car must have masked its speed.

This makes me feel he must be driving that car beyond his usual speed limit and hence, could been caught by surprise on sight of the toll booth.

As someone who has never driven on that road, the dashcam video tells me its really hard to figure the toll booth due to good tree cover on both sides and that dip just before the booth. Where are those huge green boards we usually find near toll booths? They should be put over and above that road quite a distance before the booth.

Last edited by GTO : 5th April 2019 at 16:33. Reason: Poor language & grammar. Please type your posts correctly
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