[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by whencut86

But the Toyota service and ownership costs will beat the Ventos and Skodas hands down.

But you forgot to factor in how much more cheaper a diesel dsg is to run, when compared to the petrol motor in yaris.

[whencut86]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

But you forgot to factor in how much more cheaper a diesel dsg is to run, when compared to the petrol motor in yaris.

Didn't forget. I mentioned Diesel DSG in my post purely because the Skoda top end Diesel DSG and the Yaris top end CVT Petrol fall in the same price bracket. It is self implied that at the same price point the Diesel Skoda will be cheaper to run that petrol Yaris. But not many cities have a good Skoda dealership and in Pune the main Skoda dealer closed operations recently and folks have to move to one on the Pune Mumbai highway for service. Toyota dealership and service network is wider compared to Skoda. We still hear some iffy bits about Skoda service in few cities though it has improved leaps and bounds in major cities. Nothing against Skoda here but the service experience does impact the good products they have in their lineup. They still manage to sell Rapid DSG in good numbers and that is one amazing car as well.

[harry10]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

That is exactly what I wrote in the new amaze thread.

Amaze is also spacious, good looking, same power train, gets CVT and it's almost 4 lakhs cheaper than the city!! City's advantage- slightly better looks and slightly more space. Guess a lot of people would go for the amaze, which is terrific vfm(unlike other Hondas)

Absolutely true. If I was in the market for a diesel I will surely go for a CVT diesel Amaze or even manual one which has good interiors now. Only people opting for a City D will be who wants more space and better looks. Even some petrol buyers may look at Amaze now. Honda won't mind though. They will be happy if City keeps doing 3-4k and Amaze 7-8k.
Also, on the other hand it's good for the customers if City won't sell like before, Honda may realize it's overpriced and do a price cut.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by harry10

Absolutely true. If I was in the market for a diesel I will surely go for a CVT diesel Amaze or even manual one which has good interiors now. Only people opting for a City D will be who wants more space and better looks. Even some petrol buyers may look at Amaze now. Honda won't mind though. They will be happy if City keeps doing 3-4k and Amaze 7-8k.
Also, on the other hand it's good for the customers if City won't sell like before, Honda may realize it's overpriced and do a price cut.

Honda killed off its Diesel City sales when they removed the lower variants for the Diesel. The Base variant on offer today is the SV Variant which used to be the mid-variant when the 2014 City was launched. As called out in my previous post, the sales of the City was 79% Petrol : 21% Diesel in 2017. So if we take the average monthly sales figure of City at 4,500 for convenience, then they are selling about 945 Units of the Diesel City in all every month. If the Amaze cut away 50% of it also, then its still roughly 500 units impacted...

But my take is that the Amaze possibly is helping them get back the customers who had drifted off to other brands due to the high starting price for a City Diesel. This is where the Ciaz Diesel shines as a VFM Package. One can get the Delta variant of a Ciaz Diesel for about 11.8 L while the City SV costs 2L more (Bangalore prices used for comparison). So possibly Amaze is helping Honda fight the Ciaz battle and we need to wait and watch if Maruti introduces a Diesel CVT/AMT in the facelifted Ciaz.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

The Diesel City was selling only 21% way before the Yaris and Amaze entered the market.

...So there is not much to eat from the Diesel share for Amaze even if it has...unless the Petrol Amaze with its weak heart is also eating into the City's share...

True, but Amaze diesel CVT can also eat a bit of petrol City CVT sales.

Mentioned last day in the Amaze thread - my colleague went for Amaze Diesel CVT over City petrol CVT - not that his requirements absolutely needed a diesel, most of the usage being in Bangalore traffic. But the combination of mileage and convenience is hard to resist.

One person is not a statistic - I'm just saying that this is the first ever VFM, competent and safe diesel automatic choice available - to everyone who were forced the petrol way for automatic convenience earlier. (Not counting AMTs there).

[sensible_driver]

The future of Diesel as a fuel is very uncertain in Indian Cities. With the diminished price difference and increased pollution narrative there is a more compelling reason to shift to petrol cars. So although Diesel Automatic Amaze is a very value for money and practical car, still Petrol City holds edge with sweet engine and being a car from another category.

[paperweight]

SUVs have become popular all over the world at the expense of sedan sales. So this also means that the really, really very bad Indian roads are not the real reason. Be that as it may, I think that if your real calling is to be a bus or truck driver, you would certainly prefer a SUV to a sedan and there seem to be more of those individuals nowadays. Opinions, even if they are a bit outlandish, matter.
The Yaris has a very oddly placed driver armrest - I could not understand whether it was on backward or the designers had orang utans in mind.
The City has a plain ugly monstrous sized chrome centrepiece which really looks like bad breath. But full marks for everything else - who says you have to be good looking to get on in life - the numbers prove that.
The Verna has a pinched back side due to its attempt to look like the coupe it is not.
The Rapid has an ages old petrol engine that has managed to pick up the sobriquet "fuel guzzler".
Do serious environment conscious people buy diesel engines these days? Apart from the clatter and the racket they make, they are polluting smoke belchers. At least one city in India has sort of half banned them - and its high time that the other metropolises follow suite. I can bet that the total cost of ownership will be much more than a petrol car.
Looking forward to the EVs made available for the masses. I wonder what happened to the hybrids - there only two of them - the Camry hybrid and the Accord hybrid - and both are very costly.

[AutoSphere]

Originally Posted by Simhi

Ground clearance for Yaris is mentioned in the official review. Quoting from the same

Thanks and I have also been trying to get the Ground Clearance information from TKM directly via emails/phone-calls.

So during latest call of yesterday with TKM, where the representative told me that this information is not available with them, but they could arrange for a dealer to speak with me - which I declined. I told them that if Toyota does not have this information, it is difficult to understand how the dealer could provide it?

Apparently that could be another reason for the Yaris sales not taking off as expected ?

[MBstoTBs]

I voted for Yaris because this segment simply doesnt have a car that has usbility, build and drivetrain any more, it seems to be inhabited by sedate drivers looking for a comfortable fuss free ride.

Honda City - legendary engine and power train, letting ASS ruin ownership experience
Hyundai Verna - weak product, fitted out with 'features' that add little value to car usage, supported by good, if expensive, after sales
Rapid/Vento - now nearing the end of it's lifecycle, preferred by thick metal sheet fans


What does that leave us with? A Yaris with a sorted ride, comfortable seats (if you arent a six footer in the rear seat}, good mileage and hopefully Toyota QDR. No wonder the SUV/Crossover segment is booming - at least you get the satisfaction of sitting high, and dont have the roof touching your head.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by MBstoTBs

I voted for Yaris because this segment simply doesnt have a car that has usbility, build and drivetrain any more, it seems to be inhabited by sedate drivers looking for a comfortable fuss free ride.



Honda City - legendary engine and power train, letting ASS ruin ownership experience

Hyundai Verna - weak product, fitted out with 'features' that add little value to car usage, supported by good, if expensive, after sales

Rapid/Vento - now nearing the end of it's lifecycle, preferred by thick metal sheet fans





What does that leave us with? A Yaris with a sorted ride, comfortable seats (if you arent a six footer in the rear seat}, good mileage and hopefully Toyota QDR. No wonder the SUV/Crossover segment is booming - at least you get the satisfaction of sitting high, and dont have the roof touching your head.

My colleague has bought an Yaris and I happened to spend some time inside the car. A practical sedan, but there is no strong USP that stands out. Somehow the car itself feels small on the outside and the looks are quite bland.

I remember test driving the Verna and the city extensively about 5 months ago and I still think these 2 are better than the Yaris in many aspects. If one needs ample space and a petrol auto then its the city. But if one needs diesel, then its the Verna for sure. The Verna is not about just features, its a genuinely good car with decent ride and dynamics. Overall build quality of the Verna is vastly improved over the earlier generation and I would say the quality levels are actually better than the City in most areas.

And you can talk about Toyota reliability as a factor, sure it is one. But its not like Hyundai is far behind! I know some problems have been observed in the City, but the Verna is not going to come up very short against the Yaris.

The Rapid and the Vento are probably the best built cars in this segment, also with fantastic diesel engines and gearboxes. And for a first D segment buyer, they are not bad options either.

To summarise, the Yaris has nothing phenomenal going for it. Like I found the Verna the best of the lot, I think someone else might find the City and another person the Vento. And that explains why the Yaris is struggling to match the numbers of the City and the Verna.

[MBstoTBs]

Originally Posted by motorworks

To summarise, the Yaris has nothing phenomenal going for it. Like I found the Verna the best of the lot, I think someone else might find the City and another person the Vento.

I was thinking of petrol cars. The same old story of Toyota cars from Qualis to Etios to Yaris - boring compromised products, great peace of mind and low cost of ownership.

Verna, despite the dazzling reviews, doesnt make sense for me. I have been a Santro owner for 16 years and seen declining quality AND high costs of service. Rapid and Vento are long in the tooth and short on rear seat space. Horror stories of ASS abound.

Were City to have the original build quality, it would be THE choice for me - space, driveability, fuel efficiency and reliability, all at a price lower than Yaris!


So as a C segment buyer, what choice do I have? For VFM, Ciaz and base Yaris. For features, Verna diesel or top end Yaris, and for sporty drive City or manual transmission Yaris. IMO, this is why City took such a hit with relaunch of Ciaz. Agree too Yaris sales will never top the segment, but it will be a steady seller, as was Etios compared to Dzire and now Amaze. If they come with a diesel engine, it will be bought by fleet operators too, who will prefer it to a city or Verna.

[hema4saran]

I will go for City in its petrol avatar. Vento/Rapid cousins or Verna in diesel avatar. Nothing will beat the manual + petrol combo of the City. With the current market trend setting in my choice would be a Petrol and it should be City.

If things are going as it is, I might soon be looking for my car in Indian market.

[StarrySky]

How is the reliability of the petrol AT in the Rapid? It has the 1.6MPI + 6-speed AT combination, which I guess was available in the Vento earlier. Are there reports of AT failure for this combination?

[landcruiser123]

I think that'll be pretty reliable. Refer this thread: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...vice-done.html

[amarpreet99]

I'm pretty upbeat about the yaris and found it to be quite the comfortable family car (with the standard toyota hassle free maintenance ). Post test drive, it's almost approved. I just needed to know if the engine is BS VI compliant or can be made compliant in the future.

Does anyone have any idea about the BS VI compatibility?