[gaurav_chopra04]

Please find my replys in bold.

Originally Posted by shuvc

I've always wondered about this. The general opinion is it's bad. But how bad?

Bad to the extent that I got a 1.5 year old white sports in mint condition for 5lac.

You may consider this as a relative bargain, but it shoud have been around 5.7lac. But I came across a 2006 golden elegance model in decent conditionwith 34k on the clock for 4.4lac (thats what the dealer quoted, one will certainly negotiate.) Also I came across a 2007 Pearl white spirit model with 18k on the clock asking for 6lac (again was negotiable).

Since I was looking for a sports, I didnt consider these. Vinayak motors, Lajpat Nagar, sold a 2006 white sports cedia for 5.25lac in January 2008. Had 34k on tha clock. Also saw a 2007 yellow for 5.25 lac (negotiable again)

Re sale in Delhi and Mumbai particularly is very bad.

Lets take a realistic example of a person keeping the car for at least 3 years.

If one looks at Carwale listings, 2006 Cedia Sports are being quoted between 5 to 6L. Considering OTR of about 10L for a 2006 Cedia Sports (post discounts), an owner would have lost net Rs. 4-5L max.

these calculations are based on some formulas and for most cars its almost accurate quotations based in excellent , good and fair conditions, but in case of cars such as cedia they are a bit here and there.

Now compare with a 2006 Civic. Supposedly among the max resale value cars.
A 2006 top end version would have cost 12.5 OTR minimum (no/negligible discounts). These cars are being quoted at 7 to 8L. So an owner here too, loses around Rs. 4-5L.

And in case we consider 90% loan for both cars, one would have paid more interest on the Civic.

# Yes, the Civic would probably have more ready buyers than the Cedia after 3 years.
# Also if one plans to sell within 2 yrs, the net loss might be more for a Cedia.

Absolutely, You can sell your civic within Hours of listing on Carwale, and as they say buyer haath jod ke le kar jaayega. In case of Cedia, its diificult to find a buyer first and incase you do, you will get ridiculous quotes and then aapko haath jod kar gaadi deni padegi.

I personally have witnessed this, people literally asking me to be reasonale with quotes. Cedia is no doubt an excellent car but re-sale certainly is bad.


However for a >3yr ownership period, the net monetary loss on resale does not seem to be significant enough to be a purchase decision criteria.


Note: For reference
Current OTR for Cedia Sports in Cal is around 10.2 with discounts.
Current OTR for Civic VMT in Cal is around 13.5 - no discounts.

I wonder if resale value between 3-5 years will have a 3.xx L differential.

[shuvc]

@gaurav - thanks for those actual numbers.

A couple of observations though. I had two primary contentions:
a) Consider resale value after 3 yrs at least, if not 5 years. I'm keeping in mind the average car buyer, who would keep a car for that period surely.
b) Consider actual net monetary loss

In 2007 I recall getting quotes for the Select , Spirit, Sports between 8.7, and 9.2 OTR at Calcutta - after discounts.

Refer first post of this thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-cedia-17.html

Delhi prices would have been similar.

So, considering the prices you have seen, the sellers would have lost around 4L tops in around 2-3 years. This figure would not deteriorate further that rapidly if the car is kept for 3-4-5 years.

My argument is that, you would also stand to lose 4-5 L when selling a 3+ year Civic. From the prices I have seen here - after 3yrs both Cedia and Civic would cost 4-5L less than their respective OTR prices.

But now consider that you paid 3.5L more for the Civic when you bought it and the interest on the extra 3.5L if you had taken a loan.

Btw, regarding Carwale - I did not refer to their automated used car price estimation tool. I referred to prices being quoted for actual cars on sale.

ps: I'm just looking at the financials here - not the brand, a.s.s, features etc. - and trying to indicate that for a 4-5 yr ownership period, resale value of the Cedia should not be a criteria in the purchase decision making process.

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

Bad to the extent that I got a 1.5 year old white sports in mint condition for 5lac.

You may consider this as a relative bargain, but it shoud have been around 5.7lac. But I came across a 2006 golden elegance model in decent conditionwith 34k on the clock for 4.4lac (thats what the dealer quoted, one will certainly negotiate.) Also I came across a 2007 Pearl white spirit model with 18k on the clock asking for 6lac (again was negotiable).

Since I was looking for a sports, I didnt consider these. Vinayak motors, Lajpat Nagar, sold a 2006 white sports cedia for 5.25lac in January 2008. Had 34k on tha clock. Also saw a 2007 yellow for 5.25 lac (negotiable again)

Re sale in Delhi and Mumbai particularly is very bad.

these calculations are based on some formulas and for most cars its almost accurate quotations based in excellent , good and fair conditions, but in case of cars such as cedia they are a bit here and there.

Absolutely, You can sell your civic within Hours of listing on Carwale, and as they say buyer haath jod ke le kar jaayega. In case of Cedia, its diificult to find a buyer first and incase you do, you will get ridiculous quotes and then aapko haath jod kar gaadi deni padegi.

I personally have witnessed this, people literally asking me to be reasonale with quotes. Cedia is no doubt an excellent car but re-sale certainly is bad.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Please find my replys in bold!

Originally Posted by shuvc

@gaurav - thanks for those actual numbers.

A couple of observations though. I had two primary contentions:
a) Consider resale value after 3 yrs at least, if not 5 years. I'm keeping in mind the average car buyer, who would keep a car for that period surely.
b) Consider actual net monetary loss


Absolutely, I agree with your findings Sir!
But please allow me to share my opinion. You are a senior, due respect to you first.

In 2007 I recall getting quotes for the Select , Spirit, Sports between 8.7, and 9.2 OTR at Calcutta - after discounts.

Refer first post of this thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-cedia-17.html

Delhi prices would have been similar.

Lets take the expample of my car. Its October 2007 model and the first owner gave me the bill of 10.4lac, it was paid in cash. Now if you are to find a similar car out there you will get it for around 5.25. Its 2 years old now. So I will assume the owNer loses 5 lacs. Now if you look out for a same civic you will get it for around 8.5lac. Price of a V MT in 2007 was around 13 on road in delhi. So you end up loosing 4.5 lac rupees.

PS: I read the following was not your consideration.

Also the two years, one live with a new design car, better brand value and more features.

Now a 2006 elegance model in Delhi is around 4 lac and the On road price in delhi was around 11.3 lacs. So in three years the person lost almost 7 lac rupees. compare it to the S MT (V MT was not available, the cedia elegance didnt have climate control and the civic didnt have leather seats.) which costed around 12 lacs in delhi, a 2006 SMT is available for 7 lacs + so a person ends u loosing 5 lac rupees only.

Futher I believe cedia prices will get stuck around 2.5-3 lac and civic's prices will get stuck around 5, so here both will be almost same in depreciation but that is when you aleast keep the cars for 5 year plus.

Also to be noted is colours such as white and black have the best re-sale and colours such as yellow and red have the worse. I civic since yellow and red are not there, re sale is ether good or average based on colours, not worse.

I agree that the current sports model of cedia cost 10.2 on road and that of civic costs 13.7lac. The difference of 2.5 lac is huge and you get almost all the features that you do in civic. A person currently purchasing cedia may land up with less depreciation as compared to cedia. However, dwindling sales might make case worse for cedia with resale going for an absolute toss. Parts are almost as expensive as that of civic but they are only available in the service center. Civic’s parts are easily available in Karol Bagh. At less than half of the price and labour is also very cheap outside. For example, civic’s brake pads cost about 10k (front and rear) from Honda plus labour and vat etc. they are available in karol bagh for just 2k plus very cheap labour, say 300 max. I got the front ones for cedia for 2.1k from karol bagh after a lot of effort. Rear were not available.

A person buying a civic for 13 lac may not be concerned but one buying for 7 lac will surely be concerned. same goes for cedia, a person paying 4 lac will certainly be concerned if parts are available outside or not.

I can afford the high running cost (compared to swift, for the price I got it), not every one can.

Again these are my opinion Sir! Just a debate, nothing against any one.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

I agree that the current sports model of cedia cost 10.2 on road and that of civic costs 13.7lac. The difference of 2.5 lac is huge and you get almost all the features that you do in civic.

its 3.5lac, correcting myself here.

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

....For example, civic’s brake pads cost about 10k (front and rear) from Honda plus labour and vat etc. they are available in karol bagh for just 2k plus very cheap labour, say 300 max. I got the front ones for cedia for 2.1k from karol bagh after a lot of effort. Rear were not available.

2k was for both front and rear pads of civic. Cedia's only front ones costed 2.1k, TRW make (stock ones cost about 3400 from karol bagh)

[shuvc]

Absolutely ! It's always healthy to debate. Specially helps, since you can provide first hand inputs.

2K for all Civic brake pads !!? Even Baleno pads cost more !

I agree that under 2 scenarios which you brought out, the resale loss could be higher:
a) selling early .. <2yrs
b) if the Cedia was bought at a price close to the Civic.

but the other way around resale loss difference would be negligible
a) selling late > 4yrs
b) buying Cedia at 3.5 L lower price than Civic


@suman - when are you biting?
Thinking aloud ---
- Is the Cedia BS IV compliant?
- Will HM phase out the Lancer BSIII by March 2010 in metros?
- If so HM will have only the Cedia in metros?
- If they launch the new Lancer EX, will they drop the Cedia price further or launch the new Lancer at the Civic price band?

[gaurav_chopra04]

Again my replys are in Bold!

Originally Posted by shuvc

Absolutely ! It's always healthy to debate. Specially helps, since you can provide first hand inputs.

2K for all Civic brake pads !!? Even Baleno pads cost more !

Yes thats true, I was shocked as well. pads for Accord cost 2.2k, for swift and lancer cost 400 (front). 800's pads cost only 200.

I am sure baleno's pads would cost somewhat same here.

Not only pads, all other parts are available at atleast 50% discount as compared to parts one buys from the company.

@suman - when are you biting?
Thinking aloud ---
- Is the Cedia BS IV compliant?
I too have the same question, will clarify next time I visit the service station (sometime soon, due for service in another 1.4k kms.)

- Will HM phase out the Lancer BSIII by March 2010 in metros?
production for Lancer petrols have already been halted. they are now available only on orders. Only Diesel versions are available and I guess thay are also BSIII compliant. I guess Mitsui has no other option than to phase them out in Metros.

- If so HM will have only the Cedia in metros?
If at all its BS IV compliant

- If they launch the new Lancer EX, will they drop the Cedia price further or launch the new Lancer at the Civic price band?

the new lancer isnt comming for atleast another one, one and a half year. In June, I was told that it was to be launched but the price was around 14k when they were to import it as a ckd. HM is now working on localisation of the car which certainly will take time (atleast 3 times more than normal in case of HM) Now they expect to launch it, if at all they do, at a starting price of around 11.

[suman]

Originally Posted by shuvc

@suman - when are you biting?

Not for another 6 months or so - now there's talk of the Linea coming with a 1.6MJD as well.

Originally Posted by shuvc

Thinking aloud ---
- Is the Cedia BS IV compliant?

Not sure, Gaurav do check out & update us.

[ruchirtnt]

Hello Bhpians

This is my first post after joining TEAM BHP, A big HELLO to all the people around us.
your very helpful and informative inputs has helped me a lot to make up my mind.
i am looking forward to buy a Fiesta 1.6SXi premium white in Jan 2010 (a new year model) but is completely taken away by fiesta 1.6S interiors, but the dealer here at lucknow is not recommending me to go for Sports and is suggesting to go for 1.6 SXI premium only.

the only difference i have seen and known is a 15" alloy, stiff suspension and rear seat headrest fixed and seats unfoldable, does the above 15" alloy make much difference to city driving and comfort?
i am opting for a petrol because my daily driving would not be more than 25 -30 km a month.

please advice.

[reignofchaos]

The S also has a more precise redesigned steering rack. The S is much better to drive than the SXi IMHO. I felt the throttle response to be a tad better as well.

[tarunt]

Ruchir,

Check out my report on the test drives I did

http://http://www.team-bhp.com/forum...esta-1-6s.html

I narrowed it down to a Fiesta and was initially keen on the 1.6 Sxi but I finally decided on the 1.6 S. And here's why

1. Exterior: Chrome ORVM's on the SXI look anywhere between Ludicrous to Obscene based on which colour of car you decide to buy. The 15 inch Alloys, Skirting and Spoiler give a nice touch. It surely stands out in a crowd of cars.

2: Ride Quality: Sure , the suspension is a little stiffer, but unless you are gonna be driving ONLY on potholed roads, don't worry about it. It is also telling as far as the speed-breaker GC is concerned. I've been driving it agressively for the last week and a half over huge speed breakers in Bangalore to test the limits, and NOT ONCE has it touched.

3. Interiors of the SXI on careful consideration left much to be desired. The 2 tone dash as compared to the dark grey of the S looked very tacky. Back seats are missing the head rests and arm rest but will you be spending much time in the rear seat?

Hope this helps.

[souravdebiswas]

Hi,

About the Fiesta 1.6S, I will certainly give it a huge thumbs up. I own it myself and its a sheer pleasure to drive. Handling is just precise and feels better than all other cars I have driven in the same segment. Amazing stability on highways and mountain roads. The ICE is good, the seats are sporty and comfortable. The mileage on highways is around 15. City driving I wont comment since I get very low mileage (thats because I drive in bumper to bumper traffic everyday).

Its true that the rear seats needed a bit more leg-room, but as said earlier, you would not be spending time in the back seat for sure. This is a drivers car and not a chaffeur driven car.

And considering its a sports version, its obvious that you would not get an armrest or headrest in the back seat. But thats hardly anything to worry about.

The ride quality is a bit stiff if you are on potholed roads. Thats due to the 15" alloy wheels I understand. But otherwise its real smooth. Never scrathed a speedbreaker ever.

The only thing which I would have preferred is a steering mounted audio control. If you are a tall person and push your seat back while driving, it would be a tad bit difficult to reach the music system on the dash.

And if you look at the exterior, I personally dont think there are any other cars in this segment which can beat the looks. Skirts, spoiler, body colored OVRMs, chrome exhausts, 15" alloys etc. And considering that I have the aquaris blue color, it definetely stands out on the road.

I did think ofthe Sxi model while purchasing this car. But the 1.6S definetely grabbed by attention and felt much better. If you have a choice between these two, go for the 1.6S. I wont comment about the cedia since I have not test driven it. It was out of my budget.

PM me if you want more details about the car. Will let you know more. You can see some pics of the car on http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...lti-delhi.html.


---

Sourav

[suman]

Thanks Sourav....I will only be driving the car on weekends, the rest of the time it will be chaffeur driven. Rear seat space, legroom & comfort are essential when the family are ferried back & forth. So I think we'll be giving the "S" a miss this time around.

In fact, we're giving the Fiesta a miss completely (decided that we don't want to buy a Fiesta all over again). At the moment, it looks like the Cedia Sports...and we'll Test Drive the ANHC & the Linea 1.6MJD (if its out by then) just to convince ourselves that Cedia Sports is the way to go

Why has the Honda city been left out,,anyway the 10th gen Lancer is going to be launched at autoexpo 2010,,so it would make since to wait till then

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by shuvc

Thinking aloud ---
- Is the Cedia BS IV compliant?

Just conformed from the dealer sales manager, as of now Cedia is not Euro 4 compliant. However, the engine will get some tweeks in April 2010 to make it Euro 4 compliant. Therefore, the cars available in April 2010 will be Euro 4 compliant.

@Suman, so the time you plan to buy the car is the time it gets Euro 4 compliant!

Originally Posted by suman

At the moment, it looks like the Cedia Sports...and we'll Test Drive the ANHC & the Linea 1.6MJD (if its out by then) just to convince ourselves that Cedia Sports is the way to go

I just cant stop laughing, try to over-convice yourself Sir!

Originally Posted by snoopy41

Why has the Honda city been left out,,anyway the 10th gen Lancer is going to be launched at autoexpo 2010,,so it would make since to wait till then

The new lancer wont be launched any time soon, HM-Mitsubishi is working on localisation of the car but it will take time, I guess it will make its way, if at all it does, in 2011. Also dont expect the price to be anything less than 12lac. Earlier they were about to launch it for around 14, but they knew with those prices its almost impssible for the car to be a hit model.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

I just cant stop laughing, try to over-convice yourself Sir!

I meant, trying to over-convince yourself Sir!