[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

Covid-19 death rates similar globally, lowest in India.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...y-2305008.html

So, we have done equally badly as the rest of the world.

The reality of all these will only be clear in the coming years after proper study and analysis of the real data(total deaths Vs covid deaths).

[ike]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask this query, but posting it here nonetheless. A friend of mine works for a medical laboratory in my hometown (Thrissur) as a cashier. He has unfortunately tested positive for COVID despite being vaccinated. His employer told him that since he is eligible only for 12 medical leaves a year, he will be given 12 days of paid leave. Anything over and above will be considered unpaid leaves.

Is there any policy/circular that might help argue against this employer convincing them to pay his salary when he's undergoing treatment? He has already seen a 30% pay cut and his weekly off days being taken away since the pandemic began.

I looked through the Kerala labour department website but I could find only a circular saying that people should be paid during the lockdown and did not find anything relevant to this situation.

[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by ecenandu

So, we have done equally badly as the rest of the world. .

Perhaps you overlooked or misunderstood this line in the study -

"Perhaps the most significant feature is that in spite of wide variations in types of response and the efficiency of health care set-up across different countries, the death rate from Covid-19 is very similar across countries, with India still among the lowest!"

"It would be logical to expect that countries with supposedly better healthcare and distribution facilities would have smaller per million cases as well as deaths. However, international data shows that the performance in India, both in terms of number of cases (prevention) and deaths (cure) remain among the best in the world."

All this inspite of not having a uniform and equally efficacious health system, our population adjusted mortality is much lower than that of other countries, which are more or less similar. Taking into account both, undiagnosed infections (a multiple in hundreds, as per epidemiologic seroprevalence) and unreported deaths.(a multiple in twenties at most?- as per "viral news" media)

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Emvi

3 qbites? tough luck indeed!
But I must say you are a tough man for sure

Yep. I go out at night and wrestle Street dogs for Fun.

No, seriously... I was bitten twice by a semi-wild cat I fed outside for several years. I believe he thought he was giving me a friendly nip. On the third occasion, I just got my hand in the way when one of my cats was "killing" a mat: zero chance she has rabies, but best to be sure. I only then found out that annual booster is available, and will take in future.

I strongly believe/recommend that anyone who spends time with animals should be inoculated against rabies, and so should the animals if possible.

Sorry for going off topic...

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

"Perhaps the most significant feature is that in spite of wide variations in types of response and the efficiency of health care set-up across different countries, the death rate from Covid-19 is very similar across countries, with India still among the lowest!"

Isn't this based on the official death count, which is obviously not accurate?

[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

Perhaps you overlooked or misunderstood this line in the study -

"Perhaps the most significant feature is that in spite of wide variations in types of response and the efficiency of health care set-up across different countries, the death rate from Covid-19 is very similar across countries, with India still among the lowest!"

Maybe.

Originally Posted by Zen2001

Taking into account both, undiagnosed infections (a multiple in hundreds, as per epidemiologic seroprevalence) and unreported deaths.(a multiple in twenties at most?- as per "viral news" media)

“evidence-based analysis using public domain data from global platforms like WHO, as well as a couple of other international sources on high degrees of similarities in regional structures. Also, the death rates were found to be very similar (about 2 per cent of the confirmed cases), in spite of a wide range of health care practices across the world,”

This is quoting from the article, I haven't read the actual paper. So, not sure how the undiagnosed cases and unreported deaths are accounted for.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Isn't this based on the official death count, which is obviously not accurate?

It is also based on official case count, which is again not accurate.

Originally Posted by ecenandu

So, not sure how the undiagnosed cases and unreported deaths are accounted for.

If unreported deaths and cases are accounted for, it would still even out or be better since the amount of undiagnosed cases will be much much higher than unreported deaths. So in a situation where the unreported cases are ten times higher and the deaths five times higher, it would still make the case fatality ratio go down. Hence, whatever underreporting might have happened, it would not drastically change the picture.

These numbers, true or false would do no justification against personal losses, since a death in the family counts as a major loss, and we cant equate a percentage to it. But at a global level, as a comparison metric, I guess it definitely stands, and we should leave it at that. I have attached a list of countries sorted by case fatality ratio and the countries with smaller population or very low number of cases have been removed.

[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Isn't this based on the official death count, which is obviously not accurate?

The same (under reporting) holds true for many other countries. Some countries repeat testing of the same individual, hence one case can actually be counted as multiple positives (the number of times he/she tests positive). Each positive test need not be a separate "case". Besides, the report has also taken the high probability of under reporting of both cases and deaths in India, specifically, before being submitted.

Originally Posted by ecenandu

Maybe.
This is quoting from the article, I haven't read the actual paper. So, not sure how the undiagnosed cases and unreported deaths are accounted for.

Undiagnosed cases are estimated by serosurveys, which have thrown up figures as high as 55 - 60% in our population across many states. Even if half of this were to be true, that means 25-30% of India's population is asymptomatic but infected. I'll leave you to do the math for the absolute figures. As for unreported deaths, my guess isn't any better than anyone else's - let's just assume it's a multiple of the reported number based on dead bodies coming for last rites (unless these too have disappeared mysteriously from homes, hospitals etc). All said and done, unreported infections will highly outnumber unreported deaths, bringing down the mortality ratio even further - this is what the whole article is about.

Originally Posted by audioholic

If unreported deaths and cases are accounted for, it would still even out or be better since the amount of undiagnosed cases will be much much higher than unreported deaths. So in a situation where the unreported cases are ten times higher and the deaths five times higher, it would still make the case fatality ratio go down. Hence, whatever underreporting might have happened, it would not drastically change the picture.
These numbers, true or false would do no justification against personal losses, since a death in the family counts as a major loss, and we cant equate a percentage to it. But at a global level, as a comparison metric, I guess it definitely stands, and we should leave it at that.

Actually, in an ideal world situation, (if there were no under reporting of cases or deaths), the picture would be drastically different. The mortality rates would officially be less than 1% in India instead of the inaccurately higher rates being calculated based on a denominator that's being under estimated. And though each death is an irreplaceable individual loss, we need accurate population based data to form scientific strategies to tackle the problem rather than letting panic and hysteria dictate the policies. So that those who are alive can be protected.

[MinivanDriver]

This analysis that death rate is lower in India is skewed in my opinion as it does not account for the demographics of the population. India has a lower life expectancy and higher birth rate. The percentage of population above 65 is about 6 percent in India vs. 16 percent in the US. If you analyse the age wise split of COVID deaths in the US, 80 to 85 percent of them is in the above 60 age group. That means only 15 percent of covid deaths are in the below 60 group. Where as in India, nearly half of the deaths are in the below 60 group. A stark figure to keep in mind is that only 6000 odd deaths among the nearly 6Lakh covid deaths in the US are in the 30 to 39 year age group. This is just 1 percent. Where are this would be 8 to 10 times more in India. Hence in my humble opinion, we should not derive any false sense of better Covid outcome in India. Covid is killing off the main or sometimes the sole earning member of Lakhs of families in India. This is a human catastrophe of epic proportions and the sad part is support systems are doing little or nothing about it. The first step in solving any problem is recognizing the size of the problem and this sort of skewed analysis is not helping.

[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

This analysis that death rate is lower in India is skewed in my opinion as it does not account for the demographics of the population. India has a lower life expectancy and higher birth rate. The percentage of population above 65 is about 6 percent in India vs. 16 percent in the US. If you analyse the age wise split of COVID deaths in the US, 80 to 85 percent of them is in the above 60 age group. That means only 15 percent of covid deaths are in the below 60 group. Where as in India, nearly half of the deaths are in the below 60 group. A stark figure to keep in mind is that only 6000 odd deaths among the nearly 6Lakh covid deaths in the US are in the 30 to 39 year age group. This is just 1 percent. Where are this would be 8 to 10 times more in India. Hence in my humble opinion, we should not derive any false sense of better Covid outcome in India. Covid is killing off the main or sometimes the sole earning member of Lakhs of families in India. This is a human catastrophe of epic proportions and the sad part is support systems are doing little or nothing about it. The first step in solving any problem is recognizing the size of the problem and this sort of skewed analysis is not helping.

Please quote (reliable) sources of the age - wise death rates in the countries you refer to. Especially of the lower age group (30-39) deaths you refer to. But before that, the source of the age pyramid distribution. Also the distribution of co morbidities across the age groups you refer to (in both India & USA). If we inherently have a more comorbid population at a lower age bracket, who is to blame other than ourselves?

Anyway, statistics from India (released by ICMR) have shown that more than 75% of deaths occurred in the population above 60. Now you can start blaming those statistics, of course...

[smrtdvl]

My wife a who tested positive for Covid on 27th April had a CT scan score of 0% and was in home quarantine and she is back to normal except that she has severe knee pain in her left knee and is not able to do any work or sleep during nights. Since she was in home quarantine she just had Calpol 500, zinc supplement, limcee & few home remedies. Now what could be done to help her get relieved from this terrible knee pain?

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by smrtdvl

Now what could be done to help her get relieved from this terrible knee pain?

You must consult an Orthopedic doctor. Knee pain could be for variety of reasons.

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by smrtdvl

My wife a who tested positive for Covid on 27th April had a CT scan score of 0% and was in home quarantine and she is back to normal except that she has severe knee pain in her left knee and is not able to do any work or sleep during nights. Since she was in home quarantine she just had Calpol 500, zinc supplement, limcee & few home remedies. Now what could be done to help her get relieved from this terrible knee pain?

I was under isolation for the past 10+ days due to getting exposed to a Covid+ colleague, but thankfully did not get infected. I had this same problem of terrible knee pain on the left leg while during those days. I assumed it was due to prolonged inactivity as I was locked in a room and almost no action on legs. The next few days I managed to sneak out of the room and did some walking for 15 minutes every day and the pain went away and fine since then (a better blood circulation that helped, may be?). No idea if it was due to that or if it is something else.

May be our experts could provide a better judgement.

[stallmaster]

Originally Posted by smrtdvl

Now what could be done to help her get relieved from this terrible knee pain?

My mother uses topical CBD oil for all her chronic joint pain. Massage on skin at night and the pain subsides till next evening. Sourced it online.

[Zen2001]

From the epidemiological perspective - Age, covid and death. The data is factual, explanations are based on scientific observations (of why certain populations are healthier despite being older and vice versa) and the role of genetics in NCDs (non communicable diseases). What I can further add is that the single most adverse risk factor affecting covid mortality is obesity, Even more so than just DM, HTN or Cardiac disease. Unfortunately, most obese individuals also bring upon themselves either of these alone or in combination. Metabolic/Bariatric surgeons have published studies that show reduction in morbidity and mortality from Covid19 after weight reduction in such high risk individuals, as early as August last year. Anyone can read about the metabolic benefits of weight loss surgery including reversal or amelioration of diabetes, lower cardiac and thromboembolic risks, better respiratory capacities and exercise tolerance - the list goes on.
Bottomline - Age is just your number - covid doesn't kill only based on that number, but on the list of attending comorbidites that we pile on that age. The lesson from this is to become healthier as a general population, right from childhood - because the harm done at that age is manifested in middle age. Otherwise India will soon turn into what most Latin American countries are regarding the health of their children. It's no wonder that they become more susceptible.