[GTO]

Inside China’s All-Out War on the Coronavirus:

How good were the severe and critical care?

China is really good at keeping people alive. Its hospitals looked better than some I see here in Switzerland. We’d ask, “How many ventilators do you have?” They’d say “50.” Wow! We’d say, “How many ECMOs?” They’d say “five.” The team member from the Robert Koch Institute said, “Five? In Germany, you get three, maybe. And just in Berlin.”

(ECMOs are extracorporeal membrane oxygenation machines, which oxygenate the blood when the lungs fail.)

[sameer sultan]

The wonders of the modern world is internet connectivity which enables employees to work from home in tough times like these and get their salary at the end of the month without visiting the office physically.

Spare a thought for the Uber/Ola driver who cannot obviously work from home. He has to go out for his survival come what may.

There are many examples which I can write where people have to physically be out of their safe place for earning a living I have written only about Uber/Ola because these are also technology dependent companies like the IT sector where the internet plays a major role.

Alas the internet is not the same for a techie and a Uber/Ola driver.

[DCEite]

Guys

Is it safe to order food from online food delivery chains like Zomato/Swiggy?

1. The food itself may be prepared with unwashed hands. For example - the scrumptious Pizza toppings may have been handled by a chef infected with COVID-19.
2. The delivery partner may not be keeping good personal (hand) hygiene.

[Durango Dude]

It's a first for me in my lifetime to see a pandemic causing such economic havoc. My advice would be to avoid any form of leisure outing, if you can work from home then do that, avoid malls, cinema halls, public transport (bus, train and air). I think here in TN too they need to shut schools and colleges and IT companies should advice their work force to work from home, which they haven't done as yet. Use sanitizer, avoid hand shakes only namaskar. If this continues any longer say beyond Mar, 31st, I think the world would be a "different" and less affluent place. Also avoid any form of "retail therapy" if you have any big ticket purchases in mind it should take a back seat. Sit on your hands and money. No investing in stocks. From "our" point of view, I pity the new car launches lined up: the timing couldn't be worse, especially in a country like India.

[ach1lles]

Almost every question you might have, and some you won't have thought of have been covered in this podcast. Extremely helpful and informative. Please watch. This guy speaks from extensive and pertinent experience and Joe is an exceptional host.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw

Michael Osterholm is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology. He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota. Look for his book "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Deadly Germs

Imprecise excerpts:

Weather probably won't make a difference. It didn't with SARS and MERS. This notion came up because MERS was contained by the summer and it had started in Feb, but it wasn't due to the heat that it was contained. It was because of how MERS worked as a virus and wasn't infectious for the first 5-6 days of symptoms.

This virus and its spread and its effects on everything including the economy isn't a short term thing, it's like a season. It will last a few months at least.

Current healthcare systems are not capable of handling this

We are years away from a possible vaccine

What makes COVID-19 exceptional is in its ability spread. It is highly contagious since the time you're infected, and is asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic initially, and it isn't deadly. The last part is important because it lets the virus survive. If it would kill you quickly, it wouldn't spread as fast or as much.

The only silver lining for now: it does not seem to affect children and teenagers. But, they can carry it, and spread it.

So buckle up, prepare and work to avoid contacting it. Now.

Edit:

Originally Posted by GTO

Inside China’s All-Out War on the Coronavirus:

The way they've handled it is exceptional, or so it seems. The biggest advantage they have over the rest of the world is they make the stuff for rest of the world to use. In this case, they made it for themselves, and used it effectively.

In the podcast linked above, he does talk about shortage of medical supplies, especially in the US since most critical drugs are imported from China and India.

This situation reminds me of Atlas Shrugged. All that is needed for the world to come to a standstill and break into chaos is for China to "shrug".

[jigar]

1st case of covid is confirm in Krishna building
Neelkanth vihar, Tilak nagar Mumbai
So please act accordingly.

This news is confirmed as one of the friend stays in the same building & he confirmed the same. The person had travelled to Dubai last week.
He was admitted in Hinduja but after confirmation he is being shifted to kasturba hospital

[Samurai]

Karnataka is shutting down malls, pubs, theaters, schools and colleges from March 14th to March 21st. I am 50 and I have never seen a situation like this.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...le31059494.ece

[GTO]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Is it safe to order food from online food delivery chains like Zomato/Swiggy?

+1 to this query! Guys, as a big foodie, was wondering if I can call for grub from the delivery apps? Will it be safe? What precautions can I take?

Let's say I don't meet the delivery person at all, or meet him with a mask. Is it then safe?

Thanks!

[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by GTO

+1 to this query! Guys, as a big foodie, was wondering if I can call for grub from the delivery apps? Will it be safe? What precautions can I take?

Let's say I don't meet the delivery person at all, or meet him with a mask. Is it then safe?

Thanks!

Avoid as much as possible.
Lot of unknowns, the health of the chef and other people in the restaurants. The delivery person's hygiene and health.
Not a time to take chances with health.

Only delivery I will opt for will be for groceries and essentials. I will rather cook at home than take chance with outside food.

[shashank.nk]

What about rentals like zoom cars, bounce and vogo bikes etc ? Is it safe to use a rental considering we have no idea who used it before and their health condition.

Is transmission of virus possible from touching a surface like steering/bike handle if it was used by someone who was possibly infected ?

[shipnil]

Originally Posted by GTO

Let's say I don't meet the delivery person at all, or meet him with a mask. Is it then safe?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by speedmiester

Avoid as much as possible.
Only delivery I will opt for will be for groceries and essentials. I will rather cook at home than take chance with outside food.

+1.

As you'd know from the huge information available online, it can spread from surfaces too. So if someone is sick and he is part of the people chain from cooking to delivery, the germs could very well get placed on the packing, through his hands/sneezing. You, yourself wearing a mask, might not prevent it from entering your respiratory tract through mouth, from your hands that collected the parcel.

[gadadhar]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Karnataka is shutting down malls, pubs, theaters, schools and colleges from March 14th to March 21st. I am 50 and I have never seen a situation like this.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...le31059494.ece

I thought Karnataka was little slow to react to the threat considering there is huge crowd of international travelers. Hope the new measures succeed in containing it.

[hrman]

Originally Posted by GTO

+1 to this query! Guys, as a big foodie, was wondering if I can call for grub from the delivery apps? Will it be safe? What precautions can I take?

Let's say I don't meet the delivery person at all, or meet him with a mask. Is it then safe?

Thanks!

My suggestion would be to err on the side of caution. No amount of prevention can safer than having home cooked food, till the situation improves. We never know what precautions are taken by the raw material procurement team, preparation guys (cutting and washing veggies) chefs, hotels, delivery boys etc.
If I were you, id keep away from outside food at least for a few days.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by GTO

+1 to this query! Guys, as a big foodie, was wondering if I can call for grub from the delivery apps? Will it be safe? What precautions can I take?

Let's say I don't meet the delivery person at all, or meet him with a mask. Is it then safe?

Thanks!

Tough question.

Let's see what WHO says.

They say, it spread through droplets from an infected person coming into contact with you.

Possibilities-

1. Someone sneezed while the food was being prepared. Will cooking temperatures (excess of 100 degrees for most Indian food) kill the virus?

Most certainly yes.

Someone sneezed into your food when it was getting packed. Will the virus survive?

I assume yes.

Will it infect you if you ate it?

I don't know. But I found this from Food safety department of Ireland.
https://www.fsai.ie/faq/coronavirus.html

//
Can the virus be passed on through food?
Experience with SARS and MERS suggest that people are not infected with the virus through food. So, it is unlikely the virus is passed on through food and there is no evidence yet of this happening with COVID-19 (coronavirus) to date.

Coronaviruses need a host (animal or human) to grow in and cannot grow in food. Thorough cooking is expected to kill the virus because we know that a heat treatment of at least 30min at 60ºC is effective with SARS//

So probably yes, probably no. What you can do? Order from places you expect to follow food hygiene. Remember it's not about an infected guy cooking the food. It's about him transmitting the virus to it. Probability reduces if it's a place that follows basic hygiene.


2. The delivery guy sneezes into the packet.

I would assume the packet is closed. So theoretically if you just collect this packet from him unpack without touching the food and then proceed with cleaning your hands with soap and sanitizer before eating, you should be good.

Remember more than 15 million people in Wuhan ordered food while the crisis was on. But I would expect that delivery guys and the food preparation guys to be maintaining the required measures the way China went on with the lock down.

In a nutshell, I would say there is a risk. But if you practise good personal hygiene and a bit of care you can mitigate most of it and it would be still safer than eating out.

Don't bother about wearing a mask to collect the food from delivery guy. It won't save you unless he sneezes or coughs on your face. Refer the WHO link I shared and specifically about using masks.

Another thought.
Picking up from the Ireland website regarding experience with other Corona Viruses, how about reheating the food to 60 degrees for 30 mins. It is expected to neutralize the virus. Is this feasible?

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by hrman

My suggestion would be to err on the side of caution. No amount of prevention can safer than having home cooked food, till the situation improves. We never know what precautions are taken by the raw material procurement team, preparation guys (cutting and washing veggies) chefs, hotels, delivery boys etc.
If I were you, id keep away from outside food at least for a few days.

I would second this one. There are too many contact or touch points where food can be contaminated.

From the surface on which it's is prepared, how it's delivered etc. Besides, too many people come into play here. The Cook, the employee at the restaurant who handles all Zomato packages, the delivery boy.

Besides, not all food is cooked. What about salads, juices or milkshakes?

Many of these guys can't afford to take the day off when they are down with even common cold or flu (no work from home for them).

Keeping all this in mind I had stopped orders from outside at the beginning of February itself.