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View Poll Results: Have you / are you going to install the Aarogya Setu app?
Yes, I already have or I will shortly 293 49.00%
No, I do not plan to 305 51.00%
Voters: 598. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 4th May 2020, 00:32   #16
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

Voted for 'NO'. Reasons are as follows :
1. It's not from any trusted developer.
2. Proper functioning of this app requires Bluetooth and GPS to be on which will drain the battery a lot.
3. The app doesn't give much significant information other than covid positive persons in a particular radius. Still not clear how it identifies someone is positive or not, but in case of false identification it may create unnecessary panic.
4. I am working from home and i don't go out unless it's absolutely required. So this app won't help much.

If my employer makes it mandatory to install it for going to office then i am left with no other option. But till then i am not installing it.
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Old 4th May 2020, 00:38   #17
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

Going by the responses, there should be a third option. Those who don’t want to use the app but are being compelled to use it (mandatory for office etc).

It is quite likely that these people wouldn’t have installed the app had their hand not been forced.
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Old 4th May 2020, 02:04   #18
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

I like the concept, it can help effectively track and contain Covid transmission in the initial stages. But I am also afraid this app can be quite intrusive. Would like to quote an example from our locality. A person travelled from Krishnagiri to Hosur and a few hours later police was at their door step. So the app is constantly pumping your location to some cloud server watching every step you take.

If stakes are high, those holding important positions of their businesses, they might be wary of installing the app. So, IMO it should be voluntary for general public and mandatory only to potential cases such as those who have tested positive, those in quarantine and health workers.

Anyhow, I guess we have now moved on to stage 3 with several reported cases outside suspected zones. There would many many cases out there besides whatever being tracked by the app. So the utility/resolution of this app will soon exceed its limits to make meaningful decisions.

Last edited by Thermodynamics : 4th May 2020 at 02:08.
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Old 4th May 2020, 03:22   #19
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

I already have the app. I believe it is very important to support GoI initiative in this moment of crisis. This app would be a key part of the Covid strategy, especially when the lockdown is removed. Also, the government will add more and more features to make life a little easier during COVID containment like the e-pass feature. I do understand the privacy concern, especially with the GPS feature. I will re-evaluate the need to keep the app once we tame the COVID and uninstall if there is not much value in exchange of my privacy and data.
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Old 4th May 2020, 03:32   #20
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

Voted No, reaaons:

1. Cant trust the Government regarding personal data, there is a trust deficit.
2. This is akin to a microchip inserted inside a human body, while you always know govt is watching you
3. Who will own the data, will it be health department or the enforcing authority?
4. No public debate
5. Mandatory for all government employees
6. Prelude to autocratic state
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Old 4th May 2020, 06:40   #21
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now further extended till May 17, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
Very rightly said, Sir. By profession I am a cyber security architect with a leading US company. Before this I was a lead development engineer for a network security appliance used by fortune 100 enterprise. I also hold a US patent in data security. Why I would not like to install this app:

Hence purely on technical reasons I will stay away. -BJ
Sir, I would request you to duplicate your above post on the dedicated Aarogya Setu thread on this forum (linked below).
This forum will be seen by lot of members & non members and many may miss this post - & the points it makes - on the specific Aarogya Setu thread.
Thanks in advance.

Source Aarogya Setu Thread (The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?)
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Old 4th May 2020, 06:42   #22
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now further extended till May 17, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
Very rightly said, Sir. By profession I am a cyber security architect...
You've not even touched upon the other aspects that have little to do with the technical aspects - malicious insider actions. Every system is designed assuming that those in charge of the system are trustworthy. I doubt that audit trails and blockchain technology have been implemented for protecting the public, but you can be sure such aspects will be brushed aside by management citing higher costs. This is why you cannot trust any "computerized system" - records can be made to disappear without a trace... In fact, anything is possible with insider collusion - a fact of life, considering the level of corruption in most parts of the world.
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Old 4th May 2020, 06:55   #23
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

If one has apps like Facebook, FB Messenger, Zoom and other such apps installed i would say that the privacy concerns of this app would be far far less compared to those.
This app has only location permissions. Those have access to your camera, mic, location, contacts, other app connections.
So anyone saying otherwise needs to first update themselves with the actual information about the other apps.
If one has such trust and privacy concerns, please remove all such apps from your phone.

But most won't. When it comes to fun and leisure we are a biased lot! Aren't we?!
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Old 4th May 2020, 07:54   #24
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

I wonder if people read this
https://static.swaraksha.gov.in/tnc/

Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
If one has apps like Facebook, FB Messenger, Zoom and other such apps installed i would say that the privacy concerns of this app would be far far less compared to those.
This app has only location permissions. Those have access to your camera, mic, location, contacts, other app connections.
So anyone saying otherwise needs to first update themselves with the actual information about the other apps.
If one has such trust and privacy concerns, please remove all such apps from your phone.

But most won't. When it comes to fun and leisure we are a biased lot! Aren't we?!
You give your credit card information when you buy stuff from foreign website. But you do not give your credit card information to your fellow indian citizen on the street right? Does that make us biased?
Its all about risk. What can a certain entity do with information they have about me, and what a govt can do when they have the same information, especially if they do not like what I say about them. Now of course 90% of the people never say or do anything which makes govts upset, but for those who do, it may be an issue. In the end its a choice on whom to trust. The constitution gives us these rights.

So you may feel like biased and evil by not installing this, and I fully support your right to install this app, and at the same time I fully support the rights of those who do not want to install this app.
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Old 4th May 2020, 08:04   #25
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I wonder if people read this
https://static.swaraksha.gov.in/tnc/



You give your credit card information when you buy stuff from foreign website. But you do not give your credit card information to your fellow indian citizen on the street right? Does that make us biased?
Its all about risk. What can a certain entity do with information they have about me, and what a govt can do when they have the same information, especially if they do not like what I say about them. Now of course 90% of the people never say or do anything which makes govts upset, but for those who do, it may be an issue. In the end its a choice on whom to trust. The constitution gives us these rights.

So you may feel like biased and evil by not installing this, and I fully support your right to install this app, and at the same time I fully support the rights of those who do not want to install this app.
That's not a valid comparison. Credit card info and giving permission to Facebook is entirely different.
And about freedom of speech, lets not even get into that. It's now more dangerous to speak for the government than against it.
Also regarding data being misused, Facebook data was bought by a certain company and then rerouted into our country to a certain political party as well which tried to allure the users by showing them content of one type. Not that it worked. People still were smart enough I guess.

So yes. Comparisons need to be drawn at parallel.
I respect anyone's right to install or not.

But saying that you don't trust the app when actually your data from FB and such app is already sent to far worse people is a bit weird.

Last edited by vb-san : 4th May 2020 at 09:08. Reason: Removed possible political debate points
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Old 4th May 2020, 08:34   #26
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

I will not install it till I am forced to but read this about the efficacy of contact tracing apps here
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv...covad-19_.html

Other than the efficacy, there are a few other problems
  1. The govt is not putting a sunset clause on this app and committing to deleting the data once the pandemic is over. This means they are using the pandemic to force you to download a potential surveillance tool (similar to what china did) and make it a permanent part of your life
  2. There are already talks about expanding the scope of this app for e-pass (you cannot move around without this app, UPI payments (why?) etc. This tells me that someone is using this opportunity to impose something that they cannot do in normal circumstances
  3. The people who developed this app have very questionable credentials when it comes to data privacy and security.
Now for other arguments which are typically strawman in nature
  1. Everyone gives away their to data to facebook, google. My response is it is a matter of choice. I can choose to use facebook and/or google. In fact I do not have facebook installed in my smartphone and no one is forcing me to install. I can protect myself against facebook snooping by different techniques or choose not to use it and do not suffer any life changing consequences.
  2. It is the govt. You should trust them. My response is govt is the last entity you should trust. All other entities are bound my some laws and you have some recourse. Has anyone tried fighting a govt? The odds are heavily stacked against the citizen when it comes to recourse from govt.
  3. Other countries have similar apps.. Yes but they are bound by some very strict privacy laws and have included a sunset clause. Why would the govt of india not include a sunset clause for this app? Why would the govt of india not open source this app? What are they trying to hide.
Historically, govts have used emergencies like this to trample upon the rights of citizens and this situation is no different. What concerns me is the ease in which we give up whatever small freedoms we currently enjoy? The govt will keep pushing boundaries if there is no resistance and unfortunately the indian citizen is not resisting.
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Old 4th May 2020, 09:17   #27
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

Voted Yes.
Reason : Most of the delivery guys are being pushed to install it (At-least that is what many agencies claim). So when I collect the order from them, I just switch the app ON hoping the delivery guys also has it ON.

I will use it until this issue subsides down.
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Old 4th May 2020, 10:09   #28
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

This is from the developer of the app itself.

Quote:
Having said that, there is a fear of Big Brother and the fear of the government changing things later and that is a question I am not qualified to answer.

To answer one specific question, this data is currently under the control of the NIC, even though the servers are not in the NIC, the data is being controlled entirely by the NIC – this is a Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology app. [NIC works under the ministry].
https://scroll.in/article/960566/int...s-surveillance. Not that scroll has reputation, but if they have publicly mentioned the above without masking the source, it should be true.

I am now forced to install at office

Last edited by m8002? : 4th May 2020 at 10:10.
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Old 4th May 2020, 10:35   #29
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

I wanted to vote No but I had to vote yes because this app was push installed on my phone. When the app first came out, I had already decided to not install it since I do not see any real benefit. I also have trust issues. So I did not install it.

A couple of days later while I was swiping the screen, there it was sitting on the last page already installed. Now no one in my house installs stuff on my phone. I certainly did not install it. So I am assuming it was push installed. So there.
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Old 4th May 2020, 11:02   #30
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Default re: The Aarogya Setu App : Yes or No?

My employer has made it mandatory to have this app and another similar app(made by the employer) on all employees personal mobile phones.

There definitely are concerns of sharing private info with the govt, but have to give-in personal interest in the larger interest of the state.

The concern I have regarding this app is, who updates the details of +ve cases in this app?

and if it's updated somehow, can this app notify me when a person who has been in contact with a +ve case, comes near me?

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 4th May 2020 at 11:07. Reason: Typos
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