[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by motortechie

I was under the impression that common area is owned by the apartment association. The builder has to surrender all rights to the apartment association

Common area and the area within the boundaries of the complex isn't the same

[condor]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Somewhere else in this topic I had mentioned how the common area is still owned by the builder in their complexes.

Yes, I remember you mentioning that point.

But 4% of sale price ?
Smaller apts here I have seen ask for 10000 for a NOC. In Maharashtra (IIRC), it was 25000 max per sale.

[rkg]

Those of you in look out for a medium size builder see this.

It is his 4th project in bangalore since 2003. I bought mine from him 2005 ( his first in bangalore)

KETHANA ETERNAL PROJECTS

I found him to be reasonable guy.

Other than that i do not have any association with him , iam not marketing his project here.

Mods, if it is against the board rules kindly delete the post

[condor]

There are some such smaller builders, but again hard to find. Kethana's web-site does not provide required details - even small things like location etc.

[rkg]

Originally Posted by condor

There are some such smaller builders, but again hard to find. Kethana's web-site does not provide required details - even small things like location etc.

Location map was there is the website. The project is in ORR between marthahalli and sarjapur road junction.

[condor]

@rkg, the location map is not working. that's the reason for my comment.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by Blue_V

How hard is it to find good offerings by smaller builders? How do you put faith in them when they say this is their first or second "large project"? Even then, they seem to have similar rates and sizes.

Herd mentality.

Once you move to the known builders like Mantri, HM, Nitesh, Sobha....
For a medium budget say 50-60 lakh, 2BHK OR 60-70 lakh, 3BHK:

1. Prices seem to be fixed from 3000 to 3500 per sq ft on almost all the peripheral projects like Hebbal, Kanakapura Road, Tumkur Road, etc.

2. Areas for the apartments seem to be fixed at 900/1200 sq ft (2 BHK) and 1200 to 1400 sq ft (3 BHK).

I already said this - unfair trade practises are at play here. In any other country, these practises would be illegal and the builders hauled up to court.

3. No of apartments to acreage of land is fixed.

That is FSI. Fixed by law. WIll not blame the builders for this.

I had enquired my uncle who has lived in a Mantri apartment since last 6 years, he rates them highly. He said not to worry about the legal docs. Besides the Mantri guy had said "you are free to view it but we are not going to change anything in it, its SOP".

Im still going to get it scrutinized though.

That is why you should look into them. You are not looking at prior deeds to change them. YOu are looking whether the seller / builder has a marketable right in the apartment youa re buying, and whether that right is unfettered.

Originally Posted by condor

Reg Mantri- I was looking for apt's and enquired about some ad's I saw for Mantri Tranquil for Kanakapura road. The seller says that Mantri is asking for 4% of sale price as transfer fees. !!

Under construction apartment?

Originally Posted by motortechie

I was under the impression that common area is owned by the apartment association. The builder has to surrender all rights to the apartment association

That is the law in Maharashtra. There is no "owners' association" in KA or KL. OR any other state, AFAICT.

Originally Posted by hemantbsutar

Good example, the deal here is NOT the amount of construction done, its some legal papers the bank wants and the builder is taking time to show them, which is the reason for the delay. Unless bank verifies, they will not release and builder is strangely doing in own sweet time( asked for 10 days to show the papers!)
I guess for about 7-10 days, they may not come back asking interest for a small amount( about 8 lacs), but then who knows.
And the time mentioned in the demand note is 15 days, who can claim its calendar days or working days?

Heh. Told you so. Verifying the documents is not just about looking at the copies or reading the text. It also is about verifying their physical possession. As per law, a builder can simply deposit the title deeds to the land on which YOUR apartment stands, (before the actual sale deed is executed in your favour) with me or any financier or bank, and create a mortgage. YOUR apartment is now subject to the mortgage. That is why the bank is insisting on the documentation.

Originally Posted by condor

Smaller apts here I have seen ask for 10000 for a NOC. In Maharashtra (IIRC), it was 25000 max per sale.

That is :transfer fee" for transfer of membership in the co-op society. In MH, "membership of co-op society" in which an apartment is situated is compulsory, and this concept is very different from "ownership" of the apartment. But both go together. A bit like lubricant in the engine. Or probably, the tyres on your car.

[condor]

@BSD, no that was for 1-2 yr old apt. Though Mantri is still working on the last 1-2 towers

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

So, what is Mantri's Tantra to invoke the 4% levy? What is their right? As per the agreement / sale executed by mantri in favour of original allottee of the apartment, the common area is, well, common to the owner / resident / user of the apartment. Insisting on a fee like this is against the principle of "rule against perpetuity" in the law relating to Transfer of Property, as it applies in India. IMHO.

Edit:- I am wrong. Rule against perpetuity does not apply. But unfair trade practise will apply. Even the normal consumer court can take action, I think. There is a provision in Consumer protection act about unfair trade practise. And afaik, there is no need for the developer's / seller's consent to sell the apartment in B'lore, unlike in Mumbai, where the consent of the co-op for registration is required. I am not sure on the specifics though.

[Blue_V]

Mantri would be maintaining for the first 3 years. There after the association can decide if they want to continue with Mantri. I think it would be the resale within the first 3 years?

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

So, what is Mantri's Tantra to invoke the 4% levy? What is their right? As per the agreement / sale executed by mantri in favour of original allottee of the apartment, the common area is, well, common to the owner / resident / user of the apartment. Insisting on a fee like this is against the principle of "rule against perpetuity" in the law relating to Transfer of Property, as it applies in India. IMHO.

It is "almost" legal. reason is:

1. Purchaser in NOT entitled to possession of the apartment till "Occupational Certificate" is issued by Municipality. This usually takes 2 - 3 years.
2. Flat is still not "Owned" by buyer till Title Deed is registered after completion of construction.
3. Till that time, Builder has to be a "Party" to any transaction.
4. Even after construction, Builder will get a letter signed by purchaser that he is taking the Keys to apartment, but would not move in (til building is cleared by Fire Brigade/Municipality etc) and is getting the Keys only for getting Furniture/Interiors done.

Thats why its difficult to take Builder to court since even purchaser is living illegally in purchased house.

Similarly, purchase agreement states that purchaser cannot sell flats (without NOC from Builder) before possession is given by Builder.

That is why builders are able to charge 4% (reduced to 2% in most cases).

Once Society is formed (Post OC from Municipality):

Only Rs 25,000 has to be paid to society for share transfer from previous owner.

Society is formed (and registered) after building is cleared by municpality and declared safe to live in.

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by motortechie

I was under the impression that common area is owned by the apartment association. The builder has to surrender all rights to the apartment association

I bought an apartment from HM Group, and the agreement clearly states the roof/terrace belongs to the builder, and not the society. We did raise a hue and cry about this, and it is being discussed with a lawyer. However, since all have to anyway sign the agreement when buying the property, i don't think much will come from it.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by benbsb29

roof/terrace belongs to the builder, and not the society.

In Maharashtra, there is a law that has been created in last few months.

As per that, after 3 years land and related property is "Deemed Conveyed" to society.
And builder doe not have any rights to said property.

And given that rest of states have modeled their laws on MH laws, it should propagate to other states too.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by benbsb29

I bought an apartment from HM Group, and the agreement clearly states the roof/terrace belongs to the builder, and not the society. We did raise a hue and cry about this, and it is being discussed with a lawyer. However, since all have to anyway sign the agreement when buying the property, i don't think much will come from it.

That is the problem with Karnataka apartment owners law. Each buyers owns his apartment as described in the sale deed schedule and nothing outside it. Rest can be given to the association as common area or kept with the builder. I like the MH law where the entire building belongs to the society and individual buyers only get a share in the society. In my apartment complex, the builder still owns the club house, party hall, grocery store, etc. Association still has to fight with builder to change the grocery guy who pays rent to the builder.

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

And given that rest of states have modeled their laws on MH laws, it should propagate to other states too.

Wish they had fully modeled after MH laws, but they never did. I really doubt any anti-builder laws being passed by KA government, they are not in the business of caring about citizens. Just look at our road tax, which they increase almost every year.

[Blue_V]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

It is "almost" legal. reason is:

1. Purchaser in NOT entitled to possession of the apartment till "Occupational Certificate" is issued by Municipality. This usually takes 2 - 3 years.
2. Flat is still not "Owned" by buyer till Title Deed is registered after completion of construction.
3. Till that time, Builder has to be a "Party" to any transaction.
4. Even after construction, Builder will get a letter signed by purchaser that he is taking the Keys to apartment, but would not move in (til building is cleared by Fire Brigade/Municipality etc) and is getting the Keys only for getting Furniture/Interiors done.

Thats why its difficult to take Builder to court since even purchaser is living illegally in purchased house.

Similarly, purchase agreement states that purchaser cannot sell flats (without NOC from Builder) before possession is given by Builder.

That is why builders are able to charge 4% (reduced to 2% in most cases).

Once Society is formed (Post OC from Municipality):

Only Rs 25,000 has to be paid to society for share transfer from previous owner.

Society is formed (and registered) after building is cleared by municpality and declared safe to live in.

Confirmed it with the Mantri fella. When it comes to possession time, before actual possession, it will attract 4%.