[nandrive]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

We are talking about extremely broad generalizations here. In using the term "economic opportunists" here are my observations with very small sample sets, knowing I may be very wrong.

I just want to add that, there is one more category of people like me who did not emigrate due to economic reasons or career growth. My reasons were/are law and order, pollution and traffic. I found out I am not alone. Many people who have already emigrated or people who want to emigrate have almost similar reasons. So I do not know what's the term to use for this category as fortunately money was never an issue back home and not the reason.

Before I became father I was the one who was advising people not to emigrate and face, solve the problems but things changed. Sometime I feel what I did was very cowardly act. Anyway its never too late, once kids be able to chart their own paths, have the plans to comeback and contribute to the society.

[veyron_head]

Any references for an immigration consultant for Canada? I am aware a lot of people do it themselves but I would prefer some professional help. Any references would be greatly appreciated.

[LTAutoMad]

Originally Posted by nandrive

I just want to add that, there is one more category of people like me who did not emigrate due to economic reasons or career growth. My reasons were/are law and order, pollution and traffic. I found out I am not alone. Many people who have already emigrated or people who want to emigrate have almost similar reasons. So I do not know what's the term to use for this category as fortunately money was never an issue back home and not the reason.

Before I became father I was the one who was advising people not to emigrate and face, solve the problems but things changed. Sometime I feel what I did was very cowardly act. Anyway its never too late, once kids be able to chart their own paths, have the plans to comeback and contribute to the society.

Agree with you - there are many migrants to the west who fall into this category: those who were academically smart enough to get good degrees from top institutions and then had the personality to compete with thousands of others to get good jobs in top companies in India (i.e. get jobs where they could have continued for three decades on a steady progression to top management), but decided to try their luck in the west.

Many of these people came from comfortable upper middle class, urban backgrounds (with parents who were successful professionals / businesspeople), where money was fortunately never an issue. India of the 1980s & 1990s was far less polluted - what drove these people were things like curiosity, challenges, desire to see the world etc (in those days a foreign holiday was something for the megarich). Many of these people have done well in the west (as they would have done in India too) and many of their children have continued on to study in elite institutions.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123;4877457

Different story if you're extraordinarily skilled or have a PhD with a high standing in the academic community.

+1
My daughter moved to US for MS in Biotechnology. Pursued PhD with exceptional Research work. Continues research working Post Doc.
She had got approval for EB1 category and exactly 2 years after filing, has obtained Green Card.
Recovery of money spent on her MS (4 semesters) was never on our mind. PhD was through sufficient stipend. Hard work is the key.

[carboy]

A cousin has completed MBBS in Bombay & also finished his internship. He wants to abroad to do his post grad. Which countries as suitable & what is the procedure? Are there consultants who can help with this? If yes, can someone suggest a good & reliable one in Bombay?

[hothatchaway]

Any thoughts on New Zealand as a destination, ie taking the study route there? Can anybody comment on the prospects of doing an MBA from an accredited university there and then getting a job and a PR?

How does the overall costs compare with Canada for example? (Living, tuitions etc)

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

Any thoughts on New Zealand as a destination, ie taking the study route there? Can anybody comment on the prospects of doing an MBA from an accredited university there and then getting a job and a PR?

How does the overall costs compare with Canada for example? (Living, tuitions etc)

NZ economy is very small and has a limited number of sectors that are growing or even existing there. Moreover, the current Covid-19 induced 'Paranoia' means that most countries are not giving out VISAs easily. So its possible that you will get the admit but not the VISA. You may end up doing the MBA remotely :(

Cost of MBA varies widely due to multiple parameters - even within the same country at different universities. Too many factors to take into account and hence no point in doing this comparison at all.

So be careful with investing money in education in NZ with the expectation of getting a Job there. AU is better in this regard but only slightly.

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by sunilch

.

So be careful with investing money in education in NZ with the expectation of getting a Job there. AU is better in this regard but only slightly.

I had read that it used to be quite easy to take the study route to a PR in Australia until very recently, but they have closed borders now and even put a lot of international students in the soup. So you are quite right there

It would be great if folks on this forum who have moved to NZ/are in the know in this matter can comment. I read that there is a skills in demand list which has a bearing on employment prospects after studies in NZ. What are the prospects for an international student after an MBA from one of the public universities there?

[Samurai]

Covid-19 has changed the landscape of emigration. Companies have discovered that if people can work from home without losing productivity, they can do so from any part of the world. Why pay $80K to someone average on H1B, when you can get someone really good for $40K who lives in his/her own country?

Therefore, people should be very careful in spending lakhs of rupees on foreign education, the job opportunities have also emigrated, mostly to where you already live.

This also explains why salaries in WFH roles have hit the stratosphere these days. There are plenty of folks working in MNCs while living in their native villages. I know a few who changed jobs in MNCs without ever leaving their village. Interviews, onboarding, orientation,... everything is now on Zoom/Teams/Webex.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Samurai

This also explains why salaries in WFH roles have hit the stratosphere these days. There are plenty of folks working in MNCs while living in their native villages. I know a few who changed jobs in MNCs without ever leaving their village. Interviews, onboarding, orientation,... everything is now on Zoom/Teams/Webex.

Its opened new doors for us. We realised we can hire people in Mexico , Rumania etc.

[hothatchaway]

Some of this is very good advice, but there are sectors like sales, hospitality, marketing etc where a pure wfh model will never work, unlike IT. Ergo, there will be limitations to the extent of offshoring that can happen in some of these non tech sectors.

Regarding degrees acquired abroad, for some countries, including Canada, a local degree is fast becoming the most feasible option for emigrating. It sucks to pay through the nose after having the necessary qualification and even relevant job experience. But just the way things are turning out to be.

Of course covid and predicted future waves continues to be a threat

[hdus001]

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

It would be great if folks on this forum who have moved to NZ/are in the know in this matter can comment. I read that there is a skills in demand list which has a bearing on employment prospects after studies in NZ. What are the prospects for an international student after an MBA from one of the public universities there?

I took a similar route many years back. It wasn't an intentional plan but played out this way. My experiences are from about 15 years back, so please keep in mind that things might have changed since then.

I initially moved to NZ as a student, to pursue a Masters in Engineering. Prior to this, I had worked as a software engineer for about 3 years all up in Bangalore and California. In NZ, what I found is that Masters degrees by themselves, including MBA's, don't add much value from a job-hunting perspective if you cannot show decent work experience, preferably local work experience (or from similar countries like Australia, UK, USA, etc). This is similar in Australia as well.

In my case, I only completed one semester, and then was fortunate enough to be offered a software development job by a local company (based on my previous work experience). This way I quit my studies and started working full time. Once you have a couple of years of local work experience then it's very easy to find other opportunities, and there's not much in terms of competition.

It's usually hard to find such full-time jobs while on a student visa, I just happened to be lucky. This is because companies that hire this way have to prove that they couldn't find a qualified citizen or PR. (A handful of large employers are exempted from this rule, that's how I got hired). If you complete a Masters, my understanding is that you get a visa for 12 months or so which allows you to work there. Most of my friends found jobs during their 12-month period after their studies and then eventually converted this to proper work visas, and then later got PR, etc.

Once you have NZ citizenship, then you are eligible to work in Australia too without a work visa. NZ citizens get a Special Category Visa on arrival in Au, which pretty much has similar or better rights than a PR in Australia.

The rules around when you can apply for citizenship changed a few years back. When I was there the basic requirements were that you have to be a PR and should have lived in NZ for at least 3 years, including the time spent on visas like student visas, work visas, etc. This has now been tightened, likely as this was seen as a back door route to Australia. The current rule I think stipulates that you have to have lived as a PR in NZ for at least 5 years, and years spent on other visas don't count.

Regarding NZ as a place to live and work, I have mixed views. The place is awesome, the people are great. There's a reason why cities in NZ routinely rank high in the livability ratings. It's one of the multicultural success stories. And if you love driving, cars are cheap (as NZ allows the import of used cars from overseas) and the roads and places you can drive to are fantastic. However, the main con for me was, career-wise, the Technology space there is quite small, there aren't many big names, and the money isn't great compared to Australia, UK, the USA, etc.

Anyways, spent about 4 years all up in NZ, and then moved to Australia and have been here for about 15 years now. Career-wise I feel Australia is a much better option.

[LTAutoMad]

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

I had read that it used to be quite easy to take the study route to a PR in Australia until very recently, but they have closed borders now and even put a lot of international students in the soup. So you are quite right there

It would be great if folks on this forum who have moved to NZ/are in the know in this matter can comment. I read that there is a skills in demand list which has a bearing on employment prospects after studies in NZ. What are the prospects for an international student after an MBA from one of the public universities there?

Australian student visa > PR criteria keeps changing - some 20 years back, it was impossible, subsequently the govt relaxed and allowed PR for PG students, then relaxed & relaxed again & again until (ridiculously) even people who did some 6 month pvt certificate course on the shortage list (like cooking or hairdressing!) could get PR - all the while keeping very strict criteria for independent skilled migration!

At one time, even skilled professionals were coming in as trainee cooks & hairdressers! Looked like the govt was using this as a shortcut to allow young, cheap labour in. This went on until lots of education/training scams by crooked businessmen eventuated, sadly lots of young people suffered, govt finally realised they were being taken for a ride & shut the whole thing down. Currently, it is extremely hard to get a PR from a student visa.

I would strongly advise against doing a MBA in NZ or Australia. As others have mentioned, paper qualifications don't really matter here - its your experience that counts.

There is absolutely NO premium for an MBA in ANZ - unlike, say, India or the US, where an IIM / Ivy MBA will give a huge fillip / salary boost to your career. Here, there is virtually no campus placement like in India & elsewhere - students have to find a job on their own, which makes it very hard for people on temporary visas.

Btw, my son (born & brought up here), currently doing his UG degree is very keen to do a MBA. He is a very good student, but I have advised him that if he is doing a MBA in Australia, to do it only part-time (once he graduates & gets a couple of years' work experience), that too only at a top one like Melbourne or AGSM, as there is no way one can justify the ROI or the opportunity costs of 2 years' lost salary / work experience. Of course, this is for a local.

If PR is your ultimate aim, please check out courses where there is more scope for employment.

NZ is a small economy with less than 5 million population and is effectively the size of a large Australian state. Immigration to NZ used to be far easier than Australia and so many people used to migrate to NZ, get PR and then move to Australia - this was effectively a backdoor migration to Australia. Looks like this has now been controlled (from the previous post).

There is free movement of labour between the two countries. Since there are lots more job opportunities & better salaries in Australia, even lots of born & bred Kiwis settle in Australia - more than half a million at last count (yes, 10% of their population)! No different to Indians from various states moving to Mumbai, Bengaluru etc.

Please try to find a course that you like (ideally, something technical) and has good job prospects in ANZ and try to do a masters degree / something which has maximum chance of you getting a PR. You can always do a MBA later, once you have some experience.

[MaxTorque]

Originally Posted by LTAutoMad

Please try to find a course that you like (ideally, something technical) and has good job prospects in ANZ and try to do a masters degree / something which has maximum chance of you getting a PR. You can always do a MBA later, once you have some experience.

Very well said.

Immigration scene in Australia is very dynamic and getting more competitive. So consider using your current qualifications, experiences to get PR. Just to give an example in 2016, for mechanical engineers 60 points were good enough to get an invite for applying PR for Australia. But nowadays even getting invitation with 90 is difficult.

All the best with your immigration progress.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Covid-19 has changed the landscape of emigration. Companies have discovered that if people can work from home without losing productivity, they can do so from any part of the world.

Good point, Samurai.
Although I feel that highly specialized R&D work will be within the home country of the MNC as they have a better legal framework that dissuades IP theft (to whatever extent possible).

Besides IT, I think there are a lot more fields(like Supply Chain Consulting in which I work) where WFH is not permanent and offices are slowly opening in the US again.

Therefore, people should be very careful in spending lakhs of rupees on foreign education, the job opportunities have also emigrated, mostly to where you already live.

Extremely good point, but I just want to make sure that people don't interpret this as a dissuasion. But there has to be a reality check in terms of cost vs benefits. The reasons for emigration are personal to everyone. The quality of life in the US (and I'm guessing most first-world countries) is generally better and the affordability (barring some locations like the SF Bay Area) of comforts and luxuries is higher.

In my case, learning new skills is the reason why I'm currently in the US. There was no way in hell I was going to get a quality MS education in India considering the limited opportunities besides IITs. Given that I have no student debt and I work in an industry in which skilled people are going to be required everywhere, I must mention that I'd be happier to fly back to Bangalore mid-next year if my H-1B lottery doesn't get picked. If it does, I'll be in a quandary as the American dream is dead for an average joe like me; I can't spend 15 years with the golden handcuff waiting for my GC. I'd appreciate your input on this