[acroback]

Originally Posted by carboy

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA) is enshrined in the constitution. It's the 2nd amendment. Nothing long term will be done about it at the federal level - minor tweaks may happen & there, but always be reversed.

RKBA is a good thing - amongst other things, it exists to form a militia to overthrow an oppressive government. The Govt has a right to have weapons (through the police, military etc). Citizens should not be prevented from doing so.

From the 2nd amendment

That is a pretty useless explanation for RKBA, especially in current age and world.

Arming a militia to overthrow govt can never happen in a powerful countries like USA. Pointless, providing arms to citizens is like a ticking timebomb waiting to detonate at inappropriate places.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by acroback

Arming a militia to overthrow govt can never happen in a powerful countries like USA.

If that's true, it's a bad thing. Any constitution should recognize that it is not natural for a Govt to be a friend of it's citizens. The only way to keep the Govt as a friend of it's citizens is to make citizens very powerful through citizen's rights. Unfortunately, world over, citizen's rights are being eroded in the name of anti-terrorist laws (not talking about RKBA - the USA hasn't really used Anti-terrorist laws to mess with RKBA). Considering this, I think RKBA is more relevant today than 100 years back.

Also the US has close to 90 guns per 100 people. A militia is very possible - it may not be able to overthrow the Govt - the numbers are enough to give the Govt a real scare.

Other than that, in a place like the USA which is heavily rural - the nearest police may be really far away - you really need guns for protection - you cannot depend on the police to protect you.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by carboy

Other than that, in a place like the USA which is heavily rural - the nearest police may be really far away - you really need guns for protection - you cannot depend on the police to protect you.

These are the reasons given by pro gun people in US for owning guns:
1. Hunting and recreation
2. Self defence

For 1, you dont need automatic weapons like AK 47s and yet people own them.
For 2, there are more modern weapons now that are not fatal and yet can incapacitate an intruder. For example tasers which even many law enforcement agencies are incorporating now.

The gun ownership rules in US are archaic at best and have a lot of room for modernization and moderation without losing any ability to self defense.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by amitoj

The gun ownership rules in US are archaic at best and have a lot of room for modernization and moderation without losing any ability to self defense.

3 things
1) Not going to happen. Fooling around with Gun laws is a sure fire way to lose local elections in the red states. Even at the national level, it's a cause which has more political disadvantage than advantage - that's why you heard very little rhetoric against RKBA in the recent presidential elections.
2) What about ability to self defend against a govt which has even more sophisticated weapons?
3) If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns - the ability to self defense also depends on what kind of guns you are defending against. Outlaws will have sophisticated guns which have been made illegal.

And yeah, tasers are stupid. Just a few days back, the police in the US tasered a woman for buying too many iPhones. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12...m-apple-store/ - I hope the policeman is suspended (jailed even).

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by carboy

3 things
1) Not going to happen. Fooling around with Gun laws is a sure fire way to lose local elections in the red states. Even at the national level, it's a cause which has more political disadvantage than advantage - that's why you heard very little rhetoric against RKBA in the recent presidential elections.
2) What about ability to self defend against a govt which has even more sophisticated weapons?
3) If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns - the ability to self defense also depends on what kind of guns you are defending against. Outlaws will have sophisticated guns which have been made illegal.

And yeah, tasers are stupid. Just a few days back, the police in the US tasered a woman for buying too many iPhones.

Regarding 2, its a futile argument. Governments have wayyyy more sophisticated arms and ammunition than a common man can ever imagine to match or possess. If you need guns to protect yourself against your own government then you are not living in a democratic country any more.

And 3 is already there. Gun law or no law.

Take Canada as an example. It has much stricter gun ownership laws and you dont hear of such shootings there. Yes, the outlaws still possess more sophisticated weapons but they use them to mostly shoot each other to eliminate competition.

And regarding 1, yes, politicians the world over seldom make a decision for the greater good.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by amitoj

If you need guns to protect yourself against your own government then you are not living in a democratic country any more.

Govts are not democratic of their own volition. Citizen's rights are what keeps a govt democratic. Anyway, enough about RKBA from me on this thread.

[princey]

Well sorry to bust your arguement, but in Canada GunCrime is on the rise.
Gun laws or not, probably open border with the US is one culprit, the organised crime and gangs another.

[mobike008]

Note from Moderator : Guys, We are getting a feeling some of the discussion is going a bit off-topic and sensitive.

Lets stay focus on topic of this thread. Thanks

[VLOCT]

The basic tenet of emigration to an other country should be the willingness to accept the good that culture offers and recognize the negatives of that needs to be steered clear off. Most unhappy emigrants I have seen here have the problem that, even when they've identified the good and bad, refusal to accept them because these values do not match the values of their native culture. And because of human nature, there are simply no easy solutions to overcome these problems.

Emigration will be tough for people with very strong influences of their native culture, and if they keep forcing their native values and constantly belittle the host country's cultural values on the next generation for whom this is essentially their motherland, the probability of rebellion from their kids will be very high. You can see the evidence in such families where their kids live two lives, one at home and a completely different one outside. Not a good situation.

Everyone talks about adaptation when emigrating but, does not realize the difficulty it poses for lot of emigrants. Some people do it easily, some never will, pining for their motherland after living for decades in their host country. You can call it sacrifice or by any other term, to me it's essentially a wasted life time.

Life is to be savoured, not to be regretted. If someone finds life unbearable in India or in any other country, find a better pasture, if you can. Don't waste your life time trying to convince yourself that, you're bearing it for some higher cause. Unless you're willing to be a dedicated social worker with a cause, there is no such cause for you. The chances are, you'll be as miserable ten years from now as you're today.

[princey]

I have another take on this topic. In India WE will always be Class 1 citizens. May not always be the same anywhere else outside.

Life is not good/bad because of a country/place/location/opportunity...its you. Cultural values degrade overseas.

Lonely existence....find some real friends out there ???

Family values...Radical shift outside....sometimes too confusing

Think it over-Nothing to beat Bharat Mata !

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by princey

I have another take on this topic.
In India WE will always be Class 1 citizens.

Here we go dividing people into classes!!

<SARCASM>
Does being a class 1 citizen mean seeing 1/3rd of your salary go into a black hole? Or does being a class 1 citizen mean getting stuck in a traffic jam while you or your loved one is lying in the ambulance waiting to get to the hospital? Or maybe it means having your cellphone and wallet stolen while you lie bleeding to death in a car accident.

No no wait. I got it. Being a class 1 citizen means being first in line to get trampled upon by anyone ranging from auto driver to the country's politicians.
</SARCASM>

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by VLOCT

The basic tenet of emigration to an other country should be the willingness to accept the good that culture offers and recognize the negatives of that needs to be steered clear off.
…
…

Excellent points! Thanks

Originally Posted by amitoj

Here we go dividing people into classes!!

I agree. I believe the prime purpose of this thread is to help folks, who are looking to move abroad, pros and cons, what they can expect in a certain country etc. Its best to avoid clichéd comments like class divide etc.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by hellmet

Thank you for the useful information Any idea if it is at all possible to look for a job sitting in India? I searched a few weeks ago and found a lot of Dutch-speaking requirements for jobs. You could however search for English speaking jobs but they were few and far between.

It is very much possible, your best bet are the various job consultants who specialise in overseas placements. If you feel motivated enough then why dont you learn Dutch before looking for jobs! I believe it is easy enough to learn dutch, it shares lots of basics with English (both belong to same class of languages).

Originally Posted by hellmet

What values are you talking about? Coming to India, I've not seen or heard of a more valueless society than us. If you want your child to dress in beautiful Indian dresses and say namastes and fall on your feet then I won't stop you from coming back. But, if you're worried about your daughter mixing with the localites and learning a 'few things' early, then what have you got to lose? Why imprison her in a cage called "Indian values" and destroy her life. Well that is unless you have such long term plans of getting her married to an Indian dulha, all arranged!

Actually agree with you here. As a society we have regressed tremendously. People simply do not care if their actions can harm others. Its really sad. We seem to care only for those whom we know, but not for those whom we dont. people seem to relate values with antique practices like touching feet or oberying elders with eyes closed but are they really values?

Originally Posted by amitoj

Here we go dividing people into classes!!

there are some interesting experiments social scientists keep doing and some are on how well a scoeity itself integrates/accpets foreigner who have come there to settle down. one popular one is with regards to job opportunities for the settled "foreigners". Actually it has been found that the same level of opportunities do not exist if you have an obvious foreign name! For example in France, there are lot of migrants from former french colonies. It was found (in multiple experiments) that if you sent a CV with an Arab name, the probability of getting an interview call was far far less than if you sent CV with a French name!

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Here we go dividing people into classes!!

<SARCASM>
Does being a class 1 citizen mean seeing 1/3rd of your salary go into a black hole? Or does being a class 1 citizen mean getting stuck in a traffic jam while you or your loved one is lying in the ambulance waiting to get to the hospital? Or maybe it means having your cellphone and wallet stolen while you lie bleeding to death in a car accident.

No no wait. I got it. Being a class 1 citizen means being first in line to get trampled upon by anyone ranging from auto driver to the country's politicians.
</SARCASM>

Being a class 1 citizen of India also means one can hold one's head up high while using the roadside as a public toilet for relief of both types...
Strangely enough this behaviour at least as far as the liquid relief version goes is quite common on the country roads of France, Spain etc so it isnt only an Indian phenomenon...

[S_U_N]

After good posts from noopster and vb-san, I was almost prepared to fly to Singapore (but then the guns and killings got in the middle of my dreams).

So, I will try and bring this back to the topic.
Let those who wish to migrate or work out of India for some time, do so.

The basic thought that comes to many is "grass is always green on the other side".
So, we will overlook limitations or inconveniences that we come across in our pursuit of happiness and justify our decision to leave the motherland and stay elsewhere.

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

....

That totals to $7100 a month.

I am not sure if you factored in the income tax part in those calculations.
From the SGD3000 saved, was SGD1000-1500 deducted as tax.
In that case, remainder is less than SGD2000, and would make this whole exercise futile in mind if my objective is to make money and come back.

I assume that was not the case though.