![]() | #7216 |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: mumbai
Posts: 450
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| ![]() Selfdrive Hi Hemanth.anand has posted(no 7122) the runs scored by Kallis. 12005 + 271 wickets Zaheer has 279 wickets. As a team S.Africa has 1.5 runouts per test match vs 1 per match and he is part of this side.Would definitely be a better fielder. Regards |
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![]() | #7217 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,262
Thanked: 689 Times
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But still this feeling remains - the best/biggest players are the ones that perform on the biggest stage! Thats why Pele or Zidane are up there in football (and not someone like Gascoigne though in terms of ability he wasnt second to those two). Sachin has repeatedly come short on the biggest stage or in the finals. There was a time when India lost about 18-19 finals!!! I remember Ganguly was our captain during those times. I so wished we'd rather have won some and not reached the finals in others! Similarly for Sachin I wish he had rather a bit less number of runs and was involved in bit more charismatic finishes. I wish it was him who had scored winning run in the WC final. Believe me I do not like it one bit that Punter has been the greater batsman but then what can you do. The guy has done it all! @faustus77 Bowling stats mean nothing when discussing batting! Kallis is a fantastic all rounder. But it does not mean his wickets add anything to the runs he has scored! And for the record Sachin also has 200 international wickets to his name! 30k+ runs and 200 wickets! Not bad by any means. Last edited by joslicx : 30th November 2012 at 00:17. | |
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![]() | #7218 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore
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| ![]() Since we're talking about great players, I'd like to throw in Kallis in there. The man is one good innings away from 13k runs in Test Cricket and at 282 wickets, is a dozen short of Zaheer Khan's tally of 294. ![]() That's simply incredible in terms of sheer numbers. His contribution to SA Cricket is something that's more than just commendable. |
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![]() | #7219 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore
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| ![]() Ponting lost captaincy, then had a poor scores as batsman. He was talking about playing in Ashes a day before he announced his retirement. An year ago was the right time for Ponting. Its nice gesture that CA is giving him a farewell test (unlike Laxman).Somebody who has contributed, entertained and now retiring. How is that a loss?Isn't that a tragedy for a man who has played over 750 international innings? |
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![]() | #7220 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,559
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| ![]() http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-...ry/594391.html Quote:
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![]() | #7221 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 58
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Loss for the game - Yes it is a huge loss, as the game lost one of its favorite child. But I see this as , every great players retirement is a run scored by the game itself | |
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![]() | #7222 | ||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,262
Thanked: 689 Times
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![]() | #7223 |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 398
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| ![]() IMO, in the last decade and a half the best batsmen were Sachin, Lara, Ponting, Dravid, Kallis and Hayden(yes him too). Each one of them have dominated Test cricket at some point and have been right at the top. Now how does one define Greatness - Stats ? Dominance ? Wins ? Impact ? If stats alone was a claim to greatness, then we must be start including a few Sri lankans too ![]() During their peak, no one dominated like Ponting. He has more wins, and had a masive impact. Yes he had the luxury of a great team. But to go out and dominate game after game is no mean feat. Lets not forget, he was also one of the reasons for his team to be a great team. He was the man who delivered when the team needed. He was the player for the big occasion. So purely as a batsman, he is on top of my list. Hayden, probably had more impact on the game than Lara and Sachin both. Yes, he has only around 8k runs. But he has played the least of the whole lot and packed 30 centuries in there. Each one of them scored as an opener and more often than not resulted in a win. At his peak his dominance and contribution to the team wins are comparable to USEFUL runs scored by Lara and Sachin over a career. Sachin has all the stats in the world. He is a brilliant batsman. Has he dominated bowling ? Yes. Where ? Sharjah and Chennai. Has he won you matches ? Yes. Where ? Sharjah and Chennai. Has he delivered when the team needed ? Is he a big match player ? Now we are talking of a career spanning over 2 decades. There are way too many questions to be answered before calling him the greatest ever. Heck, we have whole lot of people who rate Dravid higher than Sachin which tells a story in itself. Coming to Dravid, well we all know that, every memorable Test win India has had , his name features in there. He might not have the stats to match Sachin, but his runs were more often scored when the team needed. So i rate him higher than Sachin. Sachin is a better batsman no doubt, but i still RD higher. Kallis is probably the best cricketer ever. How do we know that ? Because we have access to cricinfo and we get to see his stats. I know its too harsh a comment to make. Kallis the batsman for me is behind Sachin and Ponting. But Kallis the cricketer is ahead of all. Lara was a brilliant batsmen. Someone for whom you would pay to watch. When in full flow, he is a sight for the gods. But i would like to leave it with that, for he has done very little apart from giving pleasure. |
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![]() | #7224 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 4,287
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| ![]() We tend to find lot of great cricketers in the last decade or so because of the number of matches they have played. We need to keep that apart and look at impact. Ponting a few years was scoring a century almost every test. Clarke will do the same I think. Lara could bat anyway, for himself or for the team and like a rock or like lightning. For Sachin everyone remembers the matches in Sharjah in ODIs (for a period of 23 years !) |
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![]() | #7225 | ||
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 437
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Sport is just not all about numbers and I love watching it for what it is. Sachin will surely prove you & other naysayers wrong ![]() | ||
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![]() | #7226 | ||||
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pune
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Will it be Sehwag? In which case who will open with Gambhir, who himself is not a shoo in. as of today, only Pujara and Ojha are shoo ins. Perhaps Sehwag too. the others need to be questioned and debated. Quote:
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In my opinion it would be less difficult to replace Ponting than to replace McGrath or Warne. | ||||
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![]() | #7227 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() Quote:
![]() Nobody wants him to fail. He had his chance for the past 2 decades and he's taken it. He's proved it many a time. Just that in this situation he has taken a lot of time trying to prove it and he hasn't been able to do so either. He should take a clue from this. You could say look at all others who are under performing. Yes, there are others and I'm sure they will be looked at once he goes. After all he is the senior most person in the squad and if he gets plenty of chances based on what he's done in the past, the others can always say when the senior guy is getting a chance, why not me? All this talk about Sachin asking selectors to take a call is just hogwash. Why would a selector put his job on the line by dropping Sachin? I don't know what happened with Mohinder Amarnath, but the way Rajeev Shukla sprung to Sachin's defence when his bad performance was talked about, will definitely send a message to the selectors. Nobody wants to be enemies of Sachin (or his fans). Finally, everyone says Sachin knows when to go. I definitely hope it is not when he forcibly kicked out from the team. For a batsman who is deemed 'the god' of Indian cricket, it is not at all worthy of his stature to be dropped (especially at this stage of his life). | |
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![]() | #7228 |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mumbai/Margao
Posts: 632
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| ![]() With due respect to everyone who is flawing Sachin here, please note that he is still the highest ranked Indian batsman in the ICC Test Rankings, at #18. This in spite of performing below his customary level over the last 2 years or so, which I will not deny. One really cannot question his work ethic, which is probably as strong right now as it ever has been. Apart from that, another thing that he said about a year or so back is that while most people say that you should quit at the top of his game, he thinks that is selfish. That amounts to having more importance for your stature rather than for what you can contribute to the team. He will continue playing till he feels he has no more contributions left for the team. Specially at this time when the reserve cupboard is pretty bare, I think he should be allowed that much. Besides, as was said in an article about him recently, "People are struggling to come to terms with his mortality. They want him to retire because they want to live with happier memories. That's selfish. Allow the man his struggle. He works hard to be an India player, and is not going to give it away just because we don't find it pretty." The lesson to be learned from the Mumbai Test was that the quality has eroded away from the team that was once No.1, and some reforms are in order. Instead, all that people are focusing on is Sachin's failure. Let's look at a few other examples, shall we? Sehwag is a guy who will play one blistering innings in a while, get everyone praising him and his critics shut up for the next few games. Then, he will be back to his original self of irresponsible slashing and poking. When the tongues start wagging again, he will play another blinder. This seems to have become his routine. In the last innings Gambhir seemed to have really worked on his temperament, so I think it will be fair to give him a few more chances before we say anything. Virat Kohli is no doubt an excellent prospect for the future, but he still needs to understand that Test cricket is Test cricket. Where is the resolve he showed in Adelaide? Having said that though, I am pretty confident that he will come good soon. Ashwin and Harbhajan have been affected way too much due to the mentality of limited overs cricket, and this is evident from their constant flat deliveries and bowling a negative line. This not only reduces wicket taking opportunities, but gives ample scoring opportunities to class players like Cook and Pietersen. Sometimes I wonder whether they are throwing darts at the batsman's legs... As for the No.6 spot, I don't know whether it comes down to inconsistent selection strategies. Raina, who is having issues with the short ball, plays on green tops in England, and Yuvraj, who has never been an excellent player of spin, plays on turners in the subcontinent. Yuvraj plays the short ball much better and would have been a better bet abroad, while Raina, who can easily tackle spinners, is more suited to the subcontinent where the bounce is more suited to his batting. Anybody remember his 100 on debut against Sri Lanka?? As for Dhoni, the lesser said, the better. Nobody else would have survived 0-8 as captain. He did on the back of the World Cup victory, and simply because he is Dhoni. Mohinder Amarnath, one of the rarer sensible voices in the administration, was sidelined because he did not want Dhoni as Test Captain. And few would vouch for his usefulness in the Test side currently. Slump in his wicket keeping is commonplace now, and I don't remember the last time his batting had a significant impact in a Test match against a sizable opposition. His unorthodox technique, that works well in ODIs, is simply not suited to the longer format. While Saha continues scoring tons of runs in the domestic circuit, he has simply been swept under the carpet due to Dhoni's affluence. How much longer will he survive on past glory? Considering all these issues, I think the string of Sachin's poor performances is not the only reason for India's fate. It's time we give the man room to breath and back him to come good. He knows what his shortcomings are, and is capable enough to get over them. Sorry for the long ranting. I know it is easy to say all these things sitting in my comfortable chair rather than being out there in the middle, but I have been ardently following Indian cricket over the years, and it really pains me to see this continuous slide after the team that Ganguly had built from ground up. In spite of that, I always defend against those who say the future is hopeless, and will continue to do so. Unconditionally. Last edited by swarnava.m : 30th November 2012 at 14:19. |
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![]() | #7230 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() People using lack of form of other players as an excuse for Sachin's long run of poor form are ignoring the fact that others have age (and thus time) on their side to bounce back whereas Sachin at nearly 40, literally has his back against the wall. And one more thing that scares me even more is the probability that if and when Sachin will make a big score, it will be at such a low pace that it will end up doing more damage than good to the team. |
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