[kavensri]

Originally Posted by vamsi.kona

The overseas problem doesn't seem to be peculiar to India. Apart from a few exceptions, the victors have been mostly home sides.

I just happen to remember reading this article (http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/42590656) few days back, where it has been debated whether cricket is the hardest sport to win 'away'.
Looking at the recent results (barring some exceptions), even the top teams are finding extremely difficult to win away series.
Having said that, I am no way justifying the current performance in SA. Starting from the team selection, most of the decisions taken by 'King' Kohli is highly debatable. I am still wondering why he did not allow Shami to bowl after lunch? Even Shami does not know why Kohli did that!

[PPS]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Even if Rahane returns, he will be under pressure.

One shouldn't expect any miracles from Rahane either, if at all he is selected for the next test.
The series is already gone. We should start preparing for the ODI series now & offcourse try to avoid a white-wash in the next test.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Not a coach really; Shastri is more like a cheerleader and a 'yes' man for Kohli.

As I said in my earlier post and as pointed out by many, India needed a ex star such in Kumble as coach, as a restraint to over aggressiveness and exuberance of Kohli. Sadly we employed a cheerleader as coach.

Ravi Shastri's role is limited to encouraging the players & boosting the ego of our captain by telling him he's 2nd best only to Bradman! Coach has a limited role to play in Cricket unlike Football. Its the captain who runs the show unfortunately in Cricket.

the first thing that comes to mind is the terrible selections of the team. Jadeja would have been way more useful. In terms of picking wickets but also scoring useful runs.

Jadeja would have been of little use on this pitch. Apart from few wickets taken by Ashwin in 1st innings, the ball hasn't done much. But yes, the number 1 reason for India failing miserably this series has to be the questionable selection & woeful batting.

Originally Posted by msdivy

BTW, Nair scored a triple and disappeared. What happened?

Expectations got the better of him. He's been in not so great form since then i believe. Shreyas Iyer is our reserve middle order batsman currently.

Originally Posted by vamsi.kona

The overseas problem doesn't seem to be peculiar to India. Apart from a few exceptions, the victors have been mostly home sides. Of course that is not to say that we shouldn't at least put a good fight and prepare better.

That is a fact. Most teams touring have struggled. The upcoming Australia-South Africa Test Series should be exciting.

Btw, Parthiv Patel is a shoddy keeper. Just shows there is a dearth of quality wicket keepers in our country.
Now, Saha is out of the series due to injury & Dinesh Karthik has replaced him. Karthik & Murali Vijay have some sort of a history, things should be interesting in the dressing room!

[pratyush6]

Over the top criticisms like over the top adulation are always useless. When we had the home series, Rohit Sharma was actually being called 'Hit-Man' in interviews, Kohli was King Kohli, Bhuvi was the Master of Swing, Ashwin was the something similar. Now they are all bad. Don't think works either way.

Honestly, I thought with slightly better preparations we would have had a better chance, rather than playing the series with SL only to shore up our coffers. I mean if BCCI is serious about it, then they should walk the talk, else they should be happy with these results.

We have players who can bat in foreign conditions. You need to invest time and effort into that. Expecting a Dhawan or a Sharma (especially) to score hundreds is like expecting a Politician to actually fulfill our promises or Roads in Bangalore to be good - Just not going to happen.

What this tour had also proved is also that, Pujara is not the batsman he is made out to be and it's time we looked elsewhere. Blood a youngster, give someone a chance other than at flat tracks. I suspect this is the innings that Pujara has to redeem himself,else he is doomed. Patel is definitely playing his last test innings. We might have also seen Dhawan for the last time of lively pitches.

PS. Just found Pujara was run out taking a 3rd run about 5 mins back. I mean Wow, just Wow! Yeah, this guy is done for me. Why the hell was I a supporter?

[Chetan_Rao]

Winning away is difficult, understandably so, but the absolute lack of temperament and application is horrible. Both tests were winnable (the second probably less so), both have been surrendered without a fight. That's unacceptable; home, away or or Mars.

[Eddy]

Slight correction - only the batsman have surrendered without a fight. The bowling has done as well as it was expected to.

[Sawyer]

I agree that winning away is not easy, but SA seems to do it quite often. And of course no team is considered great if it does not do that; which is why WI under Lloyd and Australia under Waugh are counted as great teams. Talking intent is easy, actions are another ball game.

If we want to be more understanding of our teams poor performance overseas that is fine, but there also then needs to be the dialling down of the tom tomming of how great our heroes are, that we are the truly the number 1 team and the rest of the hype around our cricketers that is ever present. At best, we are flat track bullies while batting and our bowlers are good enough to take 20 wickets consistently only on under prepared Indian tracks.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Slight correction - only the batsman have surrendered without a fight. The bowling has done as well as it was expected to.

Ironic, given it's the batting that's considered world class, and India is expected to win most matches by out-batting the opposition!

Most of our current bowlers won't get a sniff in a World XI (no, I don't think Ashwin is world class).

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

(no, I don't think Ashwin is world class).

Agree. He seems to be someone who runs out of ideas quickly and tries too many things instead of being patient and just sticking to the basics. The moment he goes for a few runs he goes into ODI mode - Leg stump line and flat trajectory.

I don't know if you watched the recent Ashes series, but Nathon Lyon on those Aussie pitches looked so threatening. Extremely tight on his lines and lengths, excellent flight and deception and just as effective against right handed and left handed batsmen.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

....
I don't know if you watched the recent Ashes series, but Nathon Lyon on those Aussie pitches looked so threatening....

I've been following the guy since he was pooh-poohed as a part-time, limited-use spinner. He's really progressed in the last few years, and I'd venture that it's his discipline & consistency that's played a major part in his development into a potent attack bowler. The man's like an off-spinning McGrath, his delivery maps are impressive in how the pitch-dots (or whatever they're called) are bunched together. Very impressive.

Graeme Swann was from a similar mould, sharp and consistent without making it look like a million bucks. England haven't found a replacement.

[autospeaker]

Originally Posted by PPS

India failing miserably this series has to be the questionable selection & woeful batting.

Completely agree! Baffling, to say the least, is our team selection. I mean, why do you leave out Bhuvi and rope in Ishant. Even if you want to play Ishant, it must have been Bumrah(or Ashwin) who should have made their way out. And let me not start my rant about Rohit's selection ahead of Rahane.

Most of the dismissals at least in 1st innings here, have been due to lack of intent. They were dismissed poking to the deliveries outside off-stump. These are the deliveries they are not even supposed to make contact with. Adding to the misery is our pathetic wicket keeping and slip fielding. This is where we lost the plot.

Ravi has got no role here I suppose, other than listening to Kohli's ridiculous decisions. I wonder if this was the actual reason for the rift between Kohli and Kumble.

[am1m]

The thing about TV is that all those close-ups don't really let you compare the way different players really move on the field. I never miss a chance to watch a test match live in Bangalore, I once even made a day trip to Mysore to watch the West Indian 'A' team in action. One thing that strikes you when you watch a cricket match live is that there is still a huge fundamental difference in basic athleticism between our players and players from teams like SA, Aus, Eng, NZ and WI. Some of it is genetic; admittedly, the average Aussie and WI player will obviously be bigger and stronger than the average Asian-origin player.

But watching the players move shows something far more obvious and beyond just the genetic excuse. I remember watching an India-NZ match and the way Brendon McCullum moved on the field was miles better than anyone on the Indian team, including the so-called younger and better (compared to the Indian team of the early 2000s) fielders. In recent times, even though the average fitness levels of the Indian team are obviously better than in the past (and that's not really saying much because it really doesn't take too much to be fitter, than say, a Sehwag! ), the gap still exists. The way every player on the Australian team moves or just warms up screams 'athlete' as opposed to our guys who seem to be just going through the motions.

With Olympic sports where it's mostly athleticism that matters, we all know where we stand in the world. With cricket, a lot depends on skill and so we are actually world-class because we develop those skills. But again, the athletic performance makes a difference. And in any sport, basic athletic performance and fitness requires hard, boring, persistent work, usually at the insistence of a driven coach who takes no nonsense from the team.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by am1m

The thing about TV is that all those close-ups don't really let you compare the way different players really move on the field. .

I totally agree, you couldn't have put it better. The first time I noticed this was when I say Gibbs practice fielding and catching before an IPL game the Ferozshah Kotla. None of the asian players could hold a candle to his movements on the field.

[am1m]

Wonder how Kohli will spin this one. All defeated captains have gotten defensive at the post-match press conferences, but Kohli seems to be verging on the delusional.

Having Shastri and the BCCI blindly back him up and ignoring or shutting down anyone who provides an honest criticism on the state of affairs of Indian cricket (what happened to Harsha Bhogle and Ramachandra Guha) is not doing any good.

But hey, there's always going to be a home series against SL and the IPL, so who cares!

Edit: Well, that was refreshing! Honestly put captain Kohli. Hope some action backs up this honesty.

[vamsi.kona]

Originally Posted by am1m

In recent times, even though the average fitness levels of the Indian team are obviously better than in the past (and that's not really saying much because it really doesn't take too much to be fitter, than say, a Sehwag! ), the gap still exists.

Originally Posted by Eddy

I totally agree, you couldn't have put it better. The first time I noticed this was when I say Gibbs practice fielding and catching before an IPL game the Ferozshah Kotla. None of the asian players could hold a candle to his movements on the field.

While the ground fielding has improved, what is more dangerous is that our slip catching has become atrocious. Earlier, we had slow fielders but decent slip fielders as far as pace bowling was concerned and really great slip fielder in Dravid as far as standing in slips for spin bowling was concerned. Now we might be the worst slip fielding side amongst the test majors.

[shashank.nk]

All said I feel bad for Rahane ,the man goes as a vice-captain and is unable to find a place in the side thanks to some delusional logic. I don't think it would have done any good to his mindset, and even if he gets picked for the last test I'll be surprised to see if he scores big.

I wonder if the experiments based on current form will end or should we expect more in the England & Australia series later this year.